No Irish Carbon tax...wah wah wah

Pauliedragon · 09-10-2018 11:30PM

Pkiernan wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-45798643

Better be worried about the thousand plus coal plants that Australia and China are bringing online.

Funny how the lefties don't decry Chinese and Australian pollution...

Barring a minor miracle the current Aussie government will be ousted by Labor next year and they won't enforce the coal policy. They are commited to renewables. Adeleaide is using renewable energy however they have constant power outages try 40 degree heat and no air conditioning. Australia isn't a country I'd be referencing for energy policy.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 09-10-2018 11:31PM

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

This reads like it's a joke thread where everyone is pretending to be a cartoon right wing crank without an ounce of logic in their head. Is this a joke, or has anyone with any sense just decided to leave ye to it at this stage?

I do wonder about the ideological makeup of the posters here. Doesn’t seem to reflect normal life.

It’s like the opposite of twitter where the left dominate. Not sure of fb.

bloodless_coup · 09-10-2018 11:37PM

There was an article a few months ago about how the cost of technology and techniques to absorb carbon and other emmisions from the atmosphere has gotten a lot cheaper than first thought and will be viable in the near future.

People in worry too much. It'll be all grand.

bloodless_coup · 09-10-2018 11:39PM

There was some opposition TD on the radio saying that the government screwed up today and that "the people" want more carbon taxes. I suppose that's why he's in the opposition.

elperello · 09-10-2018 11:40PM

lmimmfn wrote: »

No difference tbh

There is a difference.
The levy is used to fund a specific purpose.

lmimmfn · 09-10-2018 11:45PM

elperello wrote: »

There is a difference.
The levy is used to fund a specific purpose.

Read my previous post, unless legislated against the constitution its not ring fenced. It may be legislated against however it is still a tax, the fact its called a "levy" is superfluous.

09-10-2018 11:50PM

punisher5112 wrote: »

I can't stand that fool Ryan.....

How he gets so much air time.

They fooked up big time promoting dangerous cancer causing diesels.

They should be put out in a field and left there to talk to the grass.

Quote of the day sir! Serious dose of laughter after reading this.

Grayson · 09-10-2018 11:52PM

emo72 wrote: »

ok. basically this it..... why are you putting extra tax on something that i have to buy anyway. i need a car for transport, and i have to heat the house. there is no alternative for me. put the extra tax on it i will still have to buy it anyway.

If you want me to use alternatives, provide suitable alternatives.

So what you're saying is that the government should tax stuff people don't use?

I remember at the beginning of the recession there was a plan to install a load of charging points all around the country but it went no-where. We need to get a better infrasturucture in place. As it is it's probably a nightmare for people with electric cars to find charging points.

We are way behind so many european countries. We need better rail and bus infrastructure.

emo72 · 09-10-2018 11:59PM

Grayson wrote: »

So what you're saying is that the government should tax stuff people don't use?

I remember at the beginning of the recession there was a plan to install a load of charging points all around the country but it went no-where. We need to get a better infrasturucture in place. As it is it's probably a nightmare for people with electric cars to find charging points.

We are way behind so many european countries. We need better rail and bus infrastructure.

no...what im saying, quite clearly, is that i still will use the same amount of carbon. because i have to. there is no alternatives for getting to work, or heating the house.

i dont want to. id like to be green and have a zero carbon footprint. but unless im a hermit in a cave, thats not possible. nobody wants to make the planet worse, but the government arent serious either about solving this. extra taxes certainly wont.

elperello · 10-10-2018 12:01AM

lmimmfn wrote: »

Read my previous post, unless legislated against the constitution its not ring fenced. It may be legislated against however it is still a tax, the fact its called a "levy" is superfluous.

This link gives more info.
The point is that the levy is ring fenced.
It is constitutional because it is a charge/levy.
https://ieep.eu/uploads/articles/attachments/0817a609-f2ed-4db0-8ae0-05f1d75fbaa4/IE%20Plastic%20Bag%20Levy%20final.pdf?v=63680923242

Franz Von Peppercorn · 10-10-2018 12:03AM

emo72 wrote: »

no...what im saying, quite clearly, is that i still will use the same amount of carbon. because i have to. there is no alternatives for getting to work, or heating the house.

i dont want to. id like to be green and have a zero carbon footprint. but unless im a hermit in a cave, thats not possible. nobody wants to make the planet worse, but the government arent serious either about solving this. extra taxes certainly wont.

Well it’s carrot and stick. With very little carrot to be fair.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 10-10-2018 12:04AM

elperello wrote: »

This link gives more info.
The point is that the levy is ring fenced.
It is constitutional because it is a charge/levy.
https://ieep.eu/uploads/articles/attachments/0817a609-f2ed-4db0-8ae0-05f1d75fbaa4/IE%20Plastic%20Bag%20Levy%20final.pdf?v=63680923242

It doesn’t really matter since money is fungible, but nice to know.

elperello · 10-10-2018 12:19AM

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

It doesn’t really matter since money is fungible, but nice to know.

Yes the money would come from us anyway.
The Government would spend some of the other money they have taken in for the same purposes if they did not have the levy.

Austria! · 10-10-2018 12:32AM

emo72 wrote: »

no...what im saying, quite clearly, is that i still will use the same amount of carbon. because i have to. there is no alternatives for getting to work, or heating the house.

Government policy isn't about just you.

Over the whole population there's plenty of alternatives, from public transport to carpooling, cycling, electric cars that would begin to look more appealing. And that's true for heating too, incentivising things such as insulation, solar water heating and not being wasteful or careless with the heating.

Chinasea · 10-10-2018 01:37PM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

That fcuking lentil eating hippy from friends of the earth was whinging all day on the airwaves about it

So wrong in so many ways. Though, maybe you think it's funny.

10-10-2018 01:49PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Most of the price of a litre of petrol/diesel is tax anyway. Then you have massively inflated insurance which is taxed too (VAT and various levys), motor tax, tax on tolls, tyres (incl a disposal charge) etc...

Add to that the fact that more people have been priced out of Dublin in particular and so have to face longer commutes so they can pay still more tax on their salary. Public transport is non-existant or impractical in many cases, and even where it is available it's unreliable, overcrowded, slow and expensive (and ALSO taxed).

I think motorists are already paying more than their share TBH.

While I agree with your intent, I observe there is no VAT on insurance, even for the motor

Sycamore Tree · 10-10-2018 02:28PM

I often look back and wonder what previous generations regretted when they got older and then starting thinking about what the current generation of will regret when we hit 70ish in 30/40 years time.

I guess the current crop of 70 year olds+ in Ireland would regret letting the Roman Catholic Church have so much power and imposing so many restrictions, abuses and guilt on people etc etc

However I am fairly convinced that my current generation will deeply regret standing idly by while the planet approached the point of no return in relation to global warming and greenhouse gases. We are like that frog in the slowly boiling water, not a clue. The young kids growing up today will be astounded that very little was done.

topper75 · 10-10-2018 02:33PM

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

That fcuking lentil eating hippy from friends of the earth was whinging all day on the airwaves about it

Lentil farts - now that is something I don't want in my atmosphere, whatever the weather.

Can you imagine them all those bowlfuls fermenting and churning in his fibre-fest gut through the week and then a cloud of arse-belch following him around everywhere he goes. You could almost see a very faint pale yellow 'aura' coming of the back of him.

And all the while ... he thinks HE'S right.

Caliden · 10-10-2018 02:36PM

Eating meat 1 less day per week would have more benefit.

Also chicken/pigs convert feed to energy better than cows so go for chicken/pork to be more environmentally efficient.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxvQPzrg2Wg

Feisar · 10-10-2018 02:47PM

I can't get my head around the idea that being vegan and eating imported foods from around the world has less of a carbon footprint than locally sourced red meat.

Do the pro veggies count the fuel consumed to bring in foods from far flung places?

xckjoo · 10-10-2018 03:11PM

Feisar wrote: »

I can't get my head around the idea that being vegan and eating imported foods from around the world has less of a carbon footprint than locally sourced red meat.

Do the pro veggies count the fuel consumed to bring in foods from far flung places?

A la carte environmentalism

elperello · 10-10-2018 03:19PM

Feisar wrote: »

I can't get my head around the idea that being vegan and eating imported foods from around the world has less of a carbon footprint than locally sourced red meat.

Do the pro veggies count the fuel consumed to bring in foods from far flung places?

You do know that vegetables grow in Ireland don't you?

Even lentils (god bless the mark!). Not so easy to grow but can be done.

blinding · 10-10-2018 03:23PM

If we weren’t supposed to eat meat it wouldn’t be so nice !

jmayo · 10-10-2018 04:29PM

elperello wrote: »

A personal carbon allowance is the way forward.
What's the point of driving an electric car if you are going to the airport in it to fly to Florida for a long weekend?

What I find funny is that people are being told to go electric car, but then when you ask how is the electricity generated you are told "oh we will use alternative energy generation".
Then guess who are the first to complain about unsightly wind farms in protected areas scenic areas ?
Who will the first to complain about damming of rivers for hydro schemes ?
Who will be the first to dismiss nuclear ?

Austria! wrote: »

Government policy isn't about just you.

Over the whole population there's plenty of alternatives, from public transport to carpooling, cycling, electric cars that would begin to look more appealing.

Says someone who is probably in a very privileged position where there is adequate public transport.
Public transport only suits a percentage of the overall population of this country.

elperello wrote: »

You do know that vegetables grow in Ireland don't you?

Even lentils (god bless the mark!). Not so easy to grow but can be done.

Tell you what, go into any supermarket and look at the source of the the veg and fruit.
Even produce such as spuds, carrots, onions, cabbage, etc that grow in Ireland are sourced as far away as New Zealand, South Africa, Spain, Israel, etc.

Irish farmers cannot compete with foreign sourced produce and that is even with the financial cost of the transport included in the mix.
The actual environment cost is not factored in.

And gone are the days when Irish people were satisfied with spuds, cabbage, turnips with the odd carrot or parsnip, they now look for the more exotic that could only be grown in Ireland in artificial conditions, which would add yet another environmental cost.

xckjoo · 10-10-2018 04:49PM

jmayo wrote: »

What I find funny is that people are being told to go electric car, but then when you ask how is the electricity generated you are told "oh we will use alternative energy generation".
Then guess who are the first to complain about unsightly wind farms in protected areas scenic areas ?
Who will the first to complain about damming of rivers for hydro schemes ?
Who will be the first to dismiss nuclear ?

The electric car thing is to do with economies of scale. More efficient to produce electricity in high volumes and transmit it than it is for every car to be producing their own energy using an internal combustion engine.

OldRio · 10-10-2018 05:12PM

Governments all around the world use Global warming as a cash cow. IMHO the only long term and sustainable policy is to stop people breeding.
Less people less pollution. Simple.
Everything else is just tinkering and cash counting.

Austria! · 10-10-2018 05:23PM

OldRio wrote: »

Governments all around the world use Global warming as a cash cow. IMHO the only long term and sustainable policy is to stop people breeding.
Less people less pollution. Simple.
Everything else is just tinkering and cash counting.

Remember when the government actually needed money for the banks? Or to keep the lights on during the crash. Remember how quickly they got it?

So why do you think the government need to concoct a conspiracy to get money? And then to not go through with a reasonably popular carbon tax? Seems a waste of a global coverup.

And also, do you really think that reducing the population will be easier than switching to renewable energy? Like if you had to think about it realistically.

Harry Palmr · 10-10-2018 05:23PM

Feisar wrote: »

I can't get my head around the idea that being vegan and eating imported foods from around the world has less of a carbon footprint than locally sourced red meat.

Do the pro veggies count the fuel consumed to bring in foods from far flung places?

The whole food miles thing has been overblown, there's a study somewhere which largely shows its not that big in the scheme of things. Cattle on the other hand are - the amount of energy which is required from birth of calf to cow meat on a plate is enormous. Just the business of raising cattle on grass is very environmentally high - sure it looks good but looks are deceptive and as we've seen over the last year with the cold wet winter and hot dry summer the amount of supplementary foodstuffs they need to be fattened up is very large and logistically challenging.

Whatever one thinks of vegans (!) they are definitely more planet friendly than omnivores in terms of diet. What they consume has a far low carbon footprint esp as the green stuff they eat converts CO2 into O2 unlike cattle and other meats which consumes O2 (grass and breathing in) and creates CO2 (farts, poo and breathing out)

jmayo · 10-10-2018 06:22PM

xckjoo wrote: »

The electric car thing is to do with economies of scale. More efficient to produce electricity in high volumes and transmit it than it is for every car to be producing their own energy using an internal combustion engine.

What about the consumption in making the electric cars ?

And what about the storage of the energy source.
Petrol/diesel can just be left in tanks, electricity can only be stored in expensive batteries.

OldRio · 10-10-2018 06:37PM

Austria! wrote: »

And also, do you really think that reducing the population will be easier than switching to renewable energy? Like if you had to think about it realistically.

I didn't say it would be easy did I?
I for one are thinking realistically. Proper solutions not pussy footing.

No Irish Carbon tax...wah wah wah

Comments