No Irish Carbon tax...wah wah wah

Pkiernan

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-45798643

Better be worried about the thousand plus coal plants that Australia and China are bringing online.

Funny how the lefties don't decry Chinese and Australian pollution...

elperello

In all fairness Irish climate change campaigners are going to try to change policy in Ireland.
They have little chance of making headway with our own Government never mind expecting them to influence regimes on the other side of the planet.

It's hard to achieve change if we set one sector against another.
No use preaching the evils of the ICE car to someone who is stuck commuting 30 km every day just to make a living.

A personal carbon allowance is the way forward.
What's the point of driving an electric car if you are going to the airport in it to fly to Florida for a long weekend?

Atlantic Dawn

Some of the clowns here would be happy with us paying €400 a litre for petrol in their idiotic belief that the earths weather would be grand as a result.

There needs to be levys on meat sales within this country if they want to follow a polluter pays principal.

SEPT 23 1989

That fcuking lentil eating hippy from friends of the earth was whinging all day on the airwaves about it

elperello

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

That fcuking lentil eating hippy from friends of the earth was whinging all day on the airwaves about it

Relax, he is just a voice in the debate.
He's not going to whip the steak off your plate!

emo72

ok. basically this it..... why are you putting extra tax on something that i have to buy anyway. i need a car for transport, and i have to heat the house. there is no alternative for me. put the extra tax on it i will still have to buy it anyway.

If you want me to use alternatives, provide suitable alternatives.

ednwireland

carbon tax is cash grab nothing else if it was ring fenced and used to fund public transport that can get you to work (outside dubin) or maybe insulate the housing stock or solar panel say i might think it would have an effect.
however they take the money and leave you with paying more as the only option

eamonn ryan and the greens have never had a green thought in their lives or an original or inspiring one just tax tax tax !!!!

punisher5112

ednwireland wrote: »

carbon tax is cash grab nothing else if it was ring fenced and used to fund public transport that can get you to work (outside dubin) or maybe insulate the housing stock or solar panel say i might think it would have an effect.
however they take the money and leave you with paying more as the only option

eamonn ryan and the greens have never had a green thought in their lives or an original or inspiring one just tax tax tax !!!!

I can't stand that fool Ryan.....

How he gets so much air time.

They fooked up big time promoting dangerous cancer causing diesels.

They should be put out in a field and left there to talk to the grass.

SEPT 23 1989

elperello wrote: »

Relax, he is just a voice in the debate.
He's not going to whip the steak off your plate!

There is less steak on everyone's plate because of these charlatans

elperello

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

There is less steak on everyone's plate because of these charlatans

Friends Of The Earth is an environmental NGO. Not attached to the Green Party at all.

(for clarity I'm not a member of either)

SEPT 23 1989

punisher5112 wrote: »

I can't stand that fool Ryan.....

How he gets so much air time.

They fooked up big time promoting dangerous cancer causing diesels.

They should be put out in a field and left there to talk to the grass.

I think supporting the Fianna Fáil crime organisation would have been the final nail in their eco friendly coffins

Atlantic Dawn

Why no talk at all about acid rain and air pollution in city centres as a result of emissions from vehicles, it's gone completely from the news in this country since they started waffling about global warming climate change.

SEPT 23 1989

elperello wrote: »

Friends Of The Earth is an environmental NGO. Not attached to the Green Party at all.

(for clarity I'm not a member of either)

You better not be

_Kaiser_

Most of the price of a litre of petrol/diesel is tax anyway. Then you have massively inflated insurance which is taxed too (VAT and various levys), motor tax, tax on tolls, tyres (incl a disposal charge) etc...

Add to that the fact that more people have been priced out of Dublin in particular and so have to face longer commutes so they can pay still more tax on their salary. Public transport is non-existant or impractical in many cases, and even where it is available it's unreliable, overcrowded, slow and expensive (and ALSO taxed).

I think motorists are already paying more than their share TBH.

suicide_circus

irish governments know how to do three things

tax things

ban things

commission reports

SEPT 23 1989

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Most of the price of a litre of petrol/diesel is tax anyway. Then you have massively inflated insurance which is taxed too (VAT and various levys), motor tax, tax on tolls, tyres (incl a disposal charge) etc...

Add to that the fact that more people have been priced out of Dublin in particular and so have to face longer commutes so they can pay still more tax on their salary. Public transport is non-existant or impractical in many cases, and even where it is available it's unreliable, overcrowded, slow and expensive (and ALSO taxed).

I think motorists are already paying more than their share TBH.

The ones who are driving this are the people living in the suburbs of east Dublin who only use a car on weekends or never at all

punisher5112

I understand the link I'm posting is 2017 but what's stopping here doing the same and start making it affordable for all not just the rich.

https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2017/dec/25/norway-leads-way-electric-cars-green-taxation-shift?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCCAE%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fenvironment%2F2017%2Fdec%2F25%2Fnorway-leads-way-electric-cars-green-taxation-shift


Why is it in 2011 they could put in chargers and let the rich who could afford it free electricity?

Nothing has really moved on since.

We are such a small island but could do so much to improve our health but there is no push to do it.

Transportation needs big spending and fixing.

Prioritize buses and get them moving quicker.

super_furry

Pkiernan wrote: »

Funny how the lefties don't decry Chinese and Australian pollution...

You are very, very bad at the internet.

keith_sixteen

emo72 wrote: »

ok. basically this it..... why are you putting extra tax on something that i have to buy anyway. i need a car for transport, and i have to heat the house. there is no alternative for me. put the extra tax on it i will still have to buy it anyway.

If you want me to use alternatives, provide suitable alternatives.

Wah wah wah. Me me me.

Harry Palmr

An Ireland carbon tax is not designed to save the world from Chinese pollution, it's intended to rebalance the economy over time and avoid some pretty massive EU fines.

punisher5112

Harry Palmr wrote: »

An Ireland carbon tax is not designed to save the world from Chinese pollution, it's intended to rebalance the economy over time and avoid some pretty massive EU fines.

We need to fix the issue not keep bleeding a stone which is what's happening to us.

They take take take....

Harry Palmr

punisher5112 wrote: »

We need to fix the issue not keep bleeding a stone which is what's happening to us.

They take take take....

Carrot and stick is always the mix, it's never carrots and more carrots.

blinding

We are giving those that come after us loads of science and technology to sort this sh*t out . If they can’t manage it with all that help ; Fook em .

Heh ! Look Out Giant Asteroid !

gozunda

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Some of the clowns here would be happy with us paying €400 a litre for petrol in their idiotic belief that the earths weather would be grand as a result.

There needs to be levys on meat sales within this country if they want to follow a polluter pays principal.

There needs to be some serious punitive taxes on those sjw's who choose to eat imported avocados from Chile and quinoa from Bolivia - if we really want to stop idiots trying to take over

lmimmfn

The constitution says that all taxes should be lumped into a single pot unless legislated against.

Does anyone read the constitution?

Unless they pass a law that carbon taxes are ringfenced for renewable energy then what's the point? The money will get spent on the Margaret Cash's out there.

Therein lies the problem.
Let's also not forget that money collected from carbon taxes for everyone's electricity bills has been used to prop up bord na Mona and digging bogs etc. they were exempt also this carbon tax on electricity has vat applied on top, yes value added tax on a carbon tax.

So yes its all a load of **** from the government anyway and is just tax collection for other things.

Realt Dearg Sec

This reads like it's a joke thread where everyone is pretending to be a cartoon right wing crank without an ounce of logic in their head. Is this a joke, or has anyone with any sense just decided to leave ye to it at this stage?

lmimmfn

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

This reads like it's a joke thread where everyone is pretending to be a cartoon right wing crank without an ounce of logic in their head. Is this a joke, or has anyone with any sense just decided to leave ye to it at this stage?

Not sure what you mean because its all a load of crap anyway

MrMusician18

Harry Palmr wrote: »

An Ireland carbon tax is not designed to save the world from Chinese pollution, it's intended to rebalance the economy over time and avoid some pretty massive EU fines.

Which it won't achieve since the average Joe has no control over the vast majority of emissions.

Private transport makes up a surprisingly small proportion of emissions in Ireland, it's just the ubiquity of the car that gives the impression that it is. The average car spends somewhere between 95-99% of it's time parked up.

If we want to get real about emissions we need to stop growing the national herd and close Moneypoint and the peat burning power stations. Carbon tax on the average citizen won't achieve much in the overall scheme of Irish emissions.

vicwatson

Suppose the plastic bag tax has been subsumed into the general tax take pond

elperello

vicwatson wrote: »

Suppose the plastic bag tax has been subsumed into the general tax take pond

It's a levy not a tax.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/environment/waste_management_and_recycling/plastic_bag_environmental_levy.html

lmimmfn

elperello wrote: »

It's a levy not a tax.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/environment/waste_management_and_recycling/plastic_bag_environmental_levy.html

No difference tbh

Pauliedragon

Pkiernan wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-45798643

Better be worried about the thousand plus coal plants that Australia and China are bringing online.

Funny how the lefties don't decry Chinese and Australian pollution...

Barring a minor miracle the current Aussie government will be ousted by Labor next year and they won't enforce the coal policy. They are commited to renewables. Adeleaide is using renewable energy however they have constant power outages try 40 degree heat and no air conditioning. Australia isn't a country I'd be referencing for energy policy.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

This reads like it's a joke thread where everyone is pretending to be a cartoon right wing crank without an ounce of logic in their head. Is this a joke, or has anyone with any sense just decided to leave ye to it at this stage?

I do wonder about the ideological makeup of the posters here. Doesn’t seem to reflect normal life.

It’s like the opposite of twitter where the left dominate. Not sure of fb.

bloodless_coup

There was an article a few months ago about how the cost of technology and techniques to absorb carbon and other emmisions from the atmosphere has gotten a lot cheaper than first thought and will be viable in the near future.

People in worry too much. It'll be all grand.

bloodless_coup

There was some opposition TD on the radio saying that the government screwed up today and that "the people" want more carbon taxes. I suppose that's why he's in the opposition.

elperello

lmimmfn wrote: »

No difference tbh

There is a difference.
The levy is used to fund a specific purpose.

lmimmfn

elperello wrote: »

There is a difference.
The levy is used to fund a specific purpose.

Read my previous post, unless legislated against the constitution its not ring fenced. It may be legislated against however it is still a tax, the fact its called a "levy" is superfluous.

punisher5112

punisher5112 wrote: »

I can't stand that fool Ryan.....

How he gets so much air time.

They fooked up big time promoting dangerous cancer causing diesels.

They should be put out in a field and left there to talk to the grass.

Quote of the day sir! Serious dose of laughter after reading this.

Grayson

emo72 wrote: »

ok. basically this it..... why are you putting extra tax on something that i have to buy anyway. i need a car for transport, and i have to heat the house. there is no alternative for me. put the extra tax on it i will still have to buy it anyway.

If you want me to use alternatives, provide suitable alternatives.

So what you're saying is that the government should tax stuff people don't use?


I remember at the beginning of the recession there was a plan to install a load of charging points all around the country but it went no-where. We need to get a better infrasturucture in place. As it is it's probably a nightmare for people with electric cars to find charging points.

We are way behind so many european countries. We need better rail and bus infrastructure.

emo72

Grayson wrote: »

So what you're saying is that the government should tax stuff people don't use?


I remember at the beginning of the recession there was a plan to install a load of charging points all around the country but it went no-where. We need to get a better infrasturucture in place. As it is it's probably a nightmare for people with electric cars to find charging points.

We are way behind so many european countries. We need better rail and bus infrastructure.

no...what im saying, quite clearly, is that i still will use the same amount of carbon. because i have to. there is no alternatives for getting to work, or heating the house.

i dont want to. id like to be green and have a zero carbon footprint. but unless im a hermit in a cave, thats not possible. nobody wants to make the planet worse, but the government arent serious either about solving this. extra taxes certainly wont.

elperello

lmimmfn wrote: »

Read my previous post, unless legislated against the constitution its not ring fenced. It may be legislated against however it is still a tax, the fact its called a "levy" is superfluous.

This link gives more info.
The point is that the levy is ring fenced.
It is constitutional because it is a charge/levy.
https://ieep.eu/uploads/articles/attachments/0817a609-f2ed-4db0-8ae0-05f1d75fbaa4/IE%20Plastic%20Bag%20Levy%20final.pdf?v=63680923242

Franz Von Peppercorn

emo72 wrote: »

no...what im saying, quite clearly, is that i still will use the same amount of carbon. because i have to. there is no alternatives for getting to work, or heating the house.

i dont want to. id like to be green and have a zero carbon footprint. but unless im a hermit in a cave, thats not possible. nobody wants to make the planet worse, but the government arent serious either about solving this. extra taxes certainly wont.

Well it’s carrot and stick. With very little carrot to be fair.

Franz Von Peppercorn

elperello wrote: »

This link gives more info.
The point is that the levy is ring fenced.
It is constitutional because it is a charge/levy.
https://ieep.eu/uploads/articles/attachments/0817a609-f2ed-4db0-8ae0-05f1d75fbaa4/IE%20Plastic%20Bag%20Levy%20final.pdf?v=63680923242

It doesn’t really matter since money is fungible, but nice to know.

elperello

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

It doesn’t really matter since money is fungible, but nice to know.

Yes the money would come from us anyway.
The Government would spend some of the other money they have taken in for the same purposes if they did not have the levy.

Austria!

emo72 wrote: »

no...what im saying, quite clearly, is that i still will use the same amount of carbon. because i have to. there is no alternatives for getting to work, or heating the house.

Government policy isn't about just you.

Over the whole population there's plenty of alternatives, from public transport to carpooling, cycling, electric cars that would begin to look more appealing. And that's true for heating too, incentivising things such as insulation, solar water heating and not being wasteful or careless with the heating.

Chinasea

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

That fcuking lentil eating hippy from friends of the earth was whinging all day on the airwaves about it

So wrong in so many ways. Though, maybe you think it's funny.

_Kaiser_

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Most of the price of a litre of petrol/diesel is tax anyway. Then you have massively inflated insurance which is taxed too (VAT and various levys), motor tax, tax on tolls, tyres (incl a disposal charge) etc...

Add to that the fact that more people have been priced out of Dublin in particular and so have to face longer commutes so they can pay still more tax on their salary. Public transport is non-existant or impractical in many cases, and even where it is available it's unreliable, overcrowded, slow and expensive (and ALSO taxed).

I think motorists are already paying more than their share TBH.

While I agree with your intent, I observe there is no VAT on insurance, even for the motor

Sycamore Tree

I often look back and wonder what previous generations regretted when they got older and then starting thinking about what the current generation of will regret when we hit 70ish in 30/40 years time.

I guess the current crop of 70 year olds+ in Ireland would regret letting the Roman Catholic Church have so much power and imposing so many restrictions, abuses and guilt on people etc etc

However I am fairly convinced that my current generation will deeply regret standing idly by while the planet approached the point of no return in relation to global warming and greenhouse gases. We are like that frog in the slowly boiling water, not a clue. The young kids growing up today will be astounded that very little was done.

topper75

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

That fcuking lentil eating hippy from friends of the earth was whinging all day on the airwaves about it

Lentil farts - now that is something I don't want in my atmosphere, whatever the weather.

Can you imagine them all those bowlfuls fermenting and churning in his fibre-fest gut through the week and then a cloud of arse-belch following him around everywhere he goes. You could almost see a very faint pale yellow 'aura' coming of the back of him.

And all the while ... he thinks HE'S right.

Caliden

Eating meat 1 less day per week would have more benefit.

Also chicken/pigs convert feed to energy better than cows so go for chicken/pork to be more environmentally efficient.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxvQPzrg2Wg

Feisar

I can't get my head around the idea that being vegan and eating imported foods from around the world has less of a carbon footprint than locally sourced red meat.

Do the pro veggies count the fuel consumed to bring in foods from far flung places?