NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

tsue921i8wljb3 · 08-10-2018 05:33PM

jgbyr wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/1008/1001738-national-broadband-plan/

In a similar vein.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/state-backed-fund-takes-over-enet-adding-further-twist-to-broadband-process-1.3655812

KOR101 · 08-10-2018 08:35PM

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

I would not dismiss it as talking through his hat but it could be a case of "we'll use ESB poles in areas where there is no, or insufficient, eir infrastructure". That would also satisfy his claims.

I think it is a large leap to assume that it all will be on ESB. Why were the ESB not listed as a partner or at least a sub-contractor? They are notoriously protectionist about access to their network.

I also think you're misreading Carolan Lennon's comments. That was not the impression I took from them. As for Eamon Ryan...

I don't really disagree with you. We just don't know do we. Maybe the proposed legislation never appeared because they decided to go directly to plan B on the poles.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 08-10-2018 08:47PM

KOR101 wrote: »

I don't really disagree with you. We just don't know do we. Maybe the proposed legislation never appeared because they decided to go directly to plan B on the poles.

That could be the case I suppose. Hopefully some more details emerge over the coming weeks.

digiman · 08-10-2018 09:28PM

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

I'm making some assumptions without knowing how they actually plan on building this.

In my example above the first cable would be the open eir rural fibre cable.

So for example say my premises is passed by open eir, a premises 500m from me is not. Now National Broadband Ireland have to bring kilometres of fibre from wherever they locate their OLT to reach this premises passing my home and others on the way but unable to make the service available to me due to state aid rules. Hence the two cables passing my door.

Now I could have this wrong and they have something else planned. Perhaps there is dark fibre capacity in the open eir cable and they'll use that but I haven't heard it being mentioned.

What is your take on it? Am I way off?

I thought you meant something else actually which is why I was confirming before I replied!!

If the winners of the NBP have any sense at all they will ask for OpenEir to offer them dark fibre to connect up these <30Mb/s homes which are dotted inside areas which have >30Mb/s.

The department should also be pushing this otherwise it will vastly drive up the cost of the NBP by a huge amount, no technical reason why using dark fibre from eir wouldn't work, it will just be a commercial discussion with eir.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 08-10-2018 09:37PM

digiman wrote: »

I thought you meant something else actually which is why I was confirming before I replied!!

If the winners of the NBP have any sense at all they will ask for OpenEir to offer them dark fibre to connect up these <30Mb/s homes which are dotted inside areas which have >30Mb/s.

The department should also be pushing this otherwise it will vastly drive up the cost of the NBP by a huge amount, no technical reason why using dark fibre from eir wouldn't work, it will just be a commercial discussion with eir.

It would certainly be the neatest solution from a technical and cost point of view but it assumes that open eir will be willing to play ball and perhaps they will. However everything that has been mentioned do far in relation to eir is about pole and duct access, I haven't heard or read anything mentioning using the existing cabling that is there though that may be because most of the discussion has been lacking in technical details.

digiman · 08-10-2018 09:40PM

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

It would certainly be the neatest solution from a technical and cost point of view but it assumes that open eir will be willing to play ball and perhaps they will. However everything that has been mentioned do far in relation to eir is about pole and duct access, I haven't heard or read anything mentioning using the existing cabling that is there though that may be because most of the discussion has been lacking in technical details.

It will for sure have been discussed, the public just won't know about it. It will just be a commercial decision in the end.

wexfordman2 · 08-10-2018 10:22PM

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

It would certainly be the neatest solution from a technical and cost point of view but it assumes that open eir will be willing to play ball and perhaps they will. However everything that has been mentioned do far in relation to eir is about pole and duct access, I haven't heard or read anything mentioning using the existing cabling that is there though that may be because most of the discussion has been lacking in technical details.

There is eir rural fibre run in to about half a mile from me, and about 8 houses between it and us. A dark fibre from with at the last rural fibre house, and about ten eir poles past it and every house is covered.

fergus1001 · 09-10-2018 08:10AM

hoping to see some news today for the NBP in the budget

Ten Pin · 09-10-2018 09:40AM

McCourt on Newstalk now

He never says a whole lot but just in case

KOR101 · 09-10-2018 10:41AM

Ten Pin wrote: »

McCourt on Newstalk now

He never says a whole lot but just in case

Good interview. So, the others dropped out because of money and transparency. The detailed design of the network has not yet been done, and they are still talking to Eir and the ESB about pole access.

rovertom · 09-10-2018 10:53AM

wexfordman2 wrote: »

There is eir rural fibre run in to about half a mile from me, and about 8 houses between it and us. A dark fibre from with at the last rural fibre house, and about ten eir poles past it and every house is covered.

Yes I'm in deep rural mayo and it's running along the local road near us, just the little side roads that are not served. You would imagine the only reasonable way forward is to get access to that network.
Still, I keep thinking of the mobile bb plan a few years back. Given to the company with the worst network and pumped money into it only to end up with a service worse than the commercial alternatives.

Pique · 09-10-2018 11:58AM

wexfordman2 wrote: »

There is eir rural fibre run in to about half a mile from me, and about 8 houses between it and us. A dark fibre from with at the last rural fibre house, and about ten eir poles past it and every house is covered.

What's 'dark fibre' ?

tsue921i8wljb3 · 09-10-2018 12:04PM

Pique wrote: »

What's 'dark fibre' ?

For what we are talking about the consortium National Broadband Ireland would buy some capacity from open eir using some of the existing fibre in the cable that they have deployed all over the country.

This fibre is said to be "dark" as it would be spare capacity in the cable that is currently not being used. It would mean that instead of building a new access network from MAN towns they could simply extend the current cabling that is there.

However it remains to be seen if this is what is planned.

westyIrl · 09-10-2018 02:23PM

Well, nothing related to broadband in budget summary anyways.

Jim

BArra · 09-10-2018 02:25PM

should there not have been some mention? where will they pull the money from if it gets green light?

Marlow · 09-10-2018 02:38PM

BArra wrote: »

should there not have been some mention? where will they pull the money from if it gets green light?

Minor details. Minor details

/M

fergus1001 · 09-10-2018 02:38PM

westyIrl wrote: »

Well, nothing related to broadband in budget summary anyways.

Jim

there is no mention of capital expenditure in the budget so that will be in the finance bill

BArra · 09-10-2018 02:40PM

fergus1001 wrote: »

there is no mention of capital expenditure in the budget so that will be in the finance bill

Finance bill released on the 18th October

https://www.charteredaccountants.ie/News/budget-2019-finance-bill

tsue921i8wljb3 · 09-10-2018 03:43PM

David McCourt wrote:

The whole system is designed around the Government owned MANS. The whole system we designed around the enet network. The co-locations are on the enet network, the NOC, the backhaul. enet still plays a very important role.

Daid McCourt wrote:

It's a process of going around to each area of Ireland and starting the detailed design, we've already done the global design and then building hotspots, I call 'em, in each region of Ireland so you start getting connectivity in each region of Ireland.

I hope he doesn't mean wireless hotspots

Also how have they managed to make a bid if they are still in discussion with infrastructure providers (eir, ESB) about access? You would imagine that would have been resolved by now.

I notice Newstalk have not put up the part of the show that McCourt appeared in. I wonder is it because he allegedly appeared to slander the Luxembourg firm that is suing his firm, calling them "incompetent". Pat Kenny had to air a disclaimer at the end of the interview.

KOR101 · 09-10-2018 05:51PM

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

Also how have they managed to make a bid if they are still in discussion with infrastructure providers (eir, ESB) about access? You would imagine that would have been resolved by now.

The next step is the Govt accepting them as preferred bidder. I suppose only then does the detail get filled in.

westyIrl · 09-10-2018 07:56PM

https://www.farmersjournal.ie/budget-2019-87m-will-barely-start-broadband-roll-out-409598

Disappointing but not surprising if accurate. Unless the previously allocated €275m is somehow available.

Some more information regarding the NBP and the NY meeting;

https://www.broadsheet.ie/2018/10/09/breaking-his-own-rules/

Jim

tsue921i8wljb3 · 09-10-2018 09:03PM

Will the NBP process end up in the courts?

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/will-naughten-s-broadband-process-end-up-in-the-courts-1.3656071

Marlow · 09-10-2018 09:05PM

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

Will the NBP process end up in the courts?

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/will-naughten-s-broadband-process-end-up-in-the-courts-1.3656071

The likelyhood of that is big, with the way they've mismanaged that whole procurement process. There is a mobile and broadband forum on Friday, where all the providers, regulators and the government meet. It should be entertaining.

/M

tsue921i8wljb3 · 09-10-2018 09:07PM

Marlow wrote: »

The likelyhood of that is big, with the way they've mismanaged that whole procurement process.

/M

Who'd have the funds though for a long legal battle? Both eir and Siro have big capital expenditure plans, maybe our old friends Imagine. They love the high court!

KOR101 · 09-10-2018 09:10PM

It's crying out for a Judicial Review alright. The WISPs have probably figured out at this point that there is indeed life after fibre.

Marlow · 09-10-2018 09:15PM

KOR101 wrote: »

It's crying out for a Judicial Review alright. The WISPs have probably figured out at this point that there is indeed life after fibre.

The regional WISPs aren't really threatened by the NBP at all. Simply because they fill 2 spaces, that the fiber can't cover:

- low priced internet connectivity for irregular internet users
- coverage in areas that won't be covered for quite a while, still.

Also, with a bit of investment, regional WISPs can deliver 50-100 Mbit/s speeds. As long as they don't oversubscribe their network like Imagine. And those speeds are quite sufficient for most average users.

The one entity that is threatened is Imagine. Because: 60 EUR per month and that level of oversubscription is not going to fly with fiber being around.

/M

tsue921i8wljb3 · 09-10-2018 09:20PM

Plus Imagine were actually part of the process before they were turfed out.

m99T · 09-10-2018 09:25PM

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

Plus Imagine were actually part of the process before they were turfed out.

Sure if he says it, it must be true?

Marlow · 09-10-2018 09:54PM

m99T wrote: »

Sure if he says it, it must be true?

Yeah .. right. The only reason, he went down that route is because he was fed up, that his margins were ... "marginal" .. as he had to pay OpenEIR every month. They are not a consumer oriented provider. The bottom line is where it counts.

And yes .. they will defend that turf. By all cost.

/M

Pique · 09-10-2018 10:36PM

On what grounds, do you think?

NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

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