NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

rodge123 · 07-10-2018 01:14AM

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

Death by a thousand cuts...

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/state-broadband-bidder-granahan-mccourt-sued-for-contract-breach-rxm8n7crq?t=ie

I'm not even sure if this is much of a story but there seems to be a concerted effort by some to drive this process over a cliff.

Exactly, is the court case even related at all to the NBP....it does seem that there are some people determined to try and bring the NBP down over the last few weeks, maybe certain wireless providers with vested interests! It's like someone has hired a private detective to uncover any sort of potential bad info on the bidders and is then releasing it to certain media.

fritzelly · 07-10-2018 01:23AM

rodge123 wrote: »

Exactly, is the court case even related at all to the NBP....it does seem that there are some people determined to try and bring the NBP down over the last few weeks, maybe certain wireless providers with vested interests! It's like someone has hired a private detective to uncover any sort of potential bad info on the bidders and is then releasing it to certain media.

Because a lot of things are starting to smell a bit off, other politicians questioning the whole process - main parties leave, the final bidder members changing, private meetings etc etc

rodge123 · 07-10-2018 01:56AM

fritzelly wrote: »

Because a lot of things are starting to smell a bit off, other politicians questioning the whole process - main parties leave, the final bidder members changing, private meetings etc etc

Not sure why people are bringing up the other parties leaving at this point, they dropped out at different points quite a while ago at this stage....it's not like they suddenly dropped out last minute.

Final bidder makeup changing should not matter as long as the consortium meets all requirements specified from the beginning by the department.

The meeting with the final bidder doesn't give off a good impressions alright BUT correct me if i'm wrong, it happened after all bidders except enet had dropped out anyway. (Naughton still shouldn't have attended, looks bad even if nothing dodgy went on)

Hitman3000 · 07-10-2018 02:04AM

rodge123 wrote:

The meeting with the final bidder doesn't give off a good impressions alright BUT correct me if i'm wrong, it happened after all bidders except enet had dropped out anyway. (Naughton still shouldn't have attended, looks bad even if nothing dodgy went on)

Fair play but what other response would you consider appropriate to Naughten's behaviour.

Johnboy1951 · 07-10-2018 10:02AM

Naughton attended a dinner of 'movers & shakers' which is what all politicians are required to do.
He seems to have adequately covered himself by bring multiple civil servants with him, who no doubt were present to deal with any specifics on any topic which might be raised, and keep him separated from such discussions.

I suspect he succeeded, as have other ministers before him.

On this I give him a cautious pass.
So far nothing substantial to worry about, except political point-scoring.

KOR101 · 07-10-2018 10:10AM

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

I wonder is it something to do with this?

from

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2018/1004/1000861-national-broadband/

Didn't they hire the ex-Eir chief commercial officer. He was one of those who left recently with millions.

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/enet-reels-in-former-eir-heavy-hitter-to-its-board-37141396.html

Also, one thing that has escaped people's notice is that ENET was never the lead biidder, McCourt was. In the minutes of the meeting, it says Arthur Cox advised the Department that the consortium change was legal, so long as the lead bidder stayed the same.

They should drop Actavo. Better a few blushes, than an ongoing saga.

The high horse brigade · 07-10-2018 10:14AM

Why is there even a mention of sub contractors? Eir or Siro tenders wouldn't have mentioned sub contractors.

Johnboy1951 · 07-10-2018 10:18AM

The high horse brigade wrote: »

Why is there even a mention of sub contractors? Eir or Siro tenders wouldn't have mentioned sub contractors.

Why not?

I would suspect it is because the tenderer has to provide information on how they propose to do the roll out, including all in-house capabilities and to whom the out-sourcing of critical capabilities will be done.
The department would also 'vet' those 'sub-contractors' to ensure the viability of the overall tender.

KOR101 · 07-10-2018 10:34AM

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Why not?

It was being called the ENET consortium, rather than the Nasty American Vulture Fund constorium for reasons that escape me.

[edit] really should say Venture Capitalist.......... (I should be a journalist)

Ultimanemo · 07-10-2018 10:40AM

The high horse brigade wrote: »

Why is there even a mention of sub contractors? Eir or Siro tenders wouldn't have mentioned sub contractors.

KN group is installing fibre for eir right now, To me KN group is a subcontractor to eir

The high horse brigade · 07-10-2018 10:48AM

Ultimanemo wrote: »

KN group is installing fibre for eir right now, To me KN group is a subcontractor to eir

Yes so why is it not an Eir and KN consortium? If Eir had got the contract would they not be free to employ whatever contractor offers them the best deal. Something don't smell right, stinks of political influence to ensure DOB got his share of the coffers

Johnboy1951 · 07-10-2018 10:53AM

The high horse brigade wrote: »

Yes so why is it not an Eir and KN consortium? If Eir had got the contract would they not be free to employ whatever contractor offers them the best deal. Something don't smell right, stinks of political influence to ensure DOB got his share of the coffers

Probably not without approval by the department.

Without sight of the relevant documents, we don't know for sure, but I would expect the dept to have an oversight of such.

Ultimanemo · 07-10-2018 10:59AM

Denis Naughten Facebook page September 6th: If your premises has gone from light blue to dark blue, then you are one of the 195,000 customers that can connect directly to the new Eir fibre network. The company is contracted to connect 95% of premises within 20 working days of receiving an order through any of a number of retail providers. See details here https://fibrerollout.ie/rollout-map/where-to-buy
. So if you have not made an order, then you should do so.
.
The minister is working as salesman for eir, no politician asked any Questions, Is it different strokes for different folks, or just no political gains could be made here

rodge123 · 07-10-2018 03:27PM

25% increase in capital spending next year, wonder is that partially down to nbp getting announced/approved in budget next week
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/budget-2019-leo-varadkar-confirms-cuts-in-usc-and-income-tax-1.3654431?mode=amp

Ultimanemo · 07-10-2018 03:57PM

rodge123 wrote: »

25% increase in capital spending next year, wonder is that partially down to nbp getting announced/approved in budget next week
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/budget-2019-leo-varadkar-confirms-cuts-in-usc-and-income-tax-1.3654431?mode=amp

Why are we going to install FFTH to all Europe

9726_9726 · 07-10-2018 04:30PM

https://www.pressreader.com/ireland/sunday-independent-ireland/20181007/282437055070661

McCourt is selling all of his Enet shares to State-backed IIF.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 07-10-2018 05:03PM

It has no consequences for Enet’s participation in the National Broadband Plan (NBP), which is designed around the metropolitan area networks that Enet manages.

So are they just going to run cable from MAN locations to intervention areas. If so we are going to end up with two fibre cables passing certain premises but those premises will only be able to avail of service from one network. Truly an Irish solution.

ED E · 07-10-2018 05:45PM

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

So are they just going to run cable from MAN locations to intervention areas. If so we are going to end up with two fibre cables passing certain premises but those premises will only be able to avail of service from one network. Truly an Irish solution.

Thats already the case ALL over the country. OE Core running alongside OE Rural Fibre.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 07-10-2018 05:55PM

ED E wrote: »

Thats already the case ALL over the country. OE Core running alongside OE Rural Fibre.

It's not really the same though. If they locate the OLTs in MAN towns the cable is not core. Also the OE core fibre would not have the same penetration as rural.

It just seems like needless duplication to me but I suppose circumstances dictated it would be like this.

KOR101 · 07-10-2018 06:56PM

9726_9726 wrote: »

https://www.pressreader.com/ireland/sunday-independent-ireland/20181007/282437055070661

McCourt is selling all of his Enet shares to State-backed IIF.

Short of a court case, the NBP is happening.

digiman · 07-10-2018 09:49PM

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

So are they just going to run cable from MAN locations to intervention areas. If so we are going to end up with two fibre cables passing certain premises but those premises will only be able to avail of service from one network. Truly an Irish solution.

When you mention 2 cables, do you mean the first cable to be Enet MAN fibre cables or eir rural fibre cables? I'm assuming the 2nd cable you are referring to is the new NBP fibre cable.

tsue921i8wljb3 · 07-10-2018 10:09PM

digiman wrote: »

When you mention 2 cables, do you mean the first cable to be Enet MAN fibre cables or eir rural fibre cables? I'm assuming the 2nd cable you are referring to is the new NBP fibre cable.

I'm making some assumptions without knowing how they actually plan on building this.

In my example above the first cable would be the open eir rural fibre cable.

So for example say my premises is passed by open eir, a premises 500m from me is not. Now National Broadband Ireland have to bring kilometres of fibre from wherever they locate their OLT to reach this premises passing my home and others on the way but unable to make the service available to me due to state aid rules. Hence the two cables passing my door.

Now I could have this wrong and they have something else planned. Perhaps there is dark fibre capacity in the open eir cable and they'll use that but I haven't heard it being mentioned.

What is your take on it? Am I way off?

rodge123 · 07-10-2018 10:16PM

Ultimanemo wrote: »

Why are we going to install FFTH to all Europe

Read again and pay closer attention!
25% increase in capital spending next year, wonder is that partially down to nbp getting announced/approved in budget next week.

A little bedtime reading:
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/punctuation/question-mark

BarryM · 08-10-2018 08:33AM

https://thestory.ie/2018/10/07/cube-infrastructure-vs-granahan-mccourt/

The (boring legal documents) on the case.

KOR101 · 08-10-2018 10:26AM

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

So are they just going to run cable from MAN locations to intervention areas. If so we are going to end up with two fibre cables passing certain premises but those premises will only be able to avail of service from one network. Truly an Irish solution.

But it's also not great to have two pole networks. Building it on the ESB network makes good sense long term, as the EIR pole network becomes redundant when copper goes. Aren't EU rules relating to infrastructure access going to get us to one network anyway, say 50 years from now.

Marlow · 08-10-2018 10:37AM

KOR101 wrote: »

as the EIR pole network becomes redundant when copper goes.

Erh. No. At least not everywhere. Simply because OpenEIR have strung their fibre on the same poles.

Also the fibre between exchanges is on these poles in places.

/M

tsue921i8wljb3 · 08-10-2018 03:24PM

KOR101 wrote: »

But it's also not great to have two pole networks. Building it on the ESB network makes good sense long term, as the EIR pole network becomes redundant when copper goes. Aren't EU rules relating to infrastructure access going to get us to one network anyway, say 50 years from now.

I'm not entirely sure that it will be built on the ESB network. Are you going on Naughten's comments from last week to think that it will?

KOR101 · 08-10-2018 04:08PM

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

I'm not entirely sure that it will be built on the ESB network. Are you going on Naughten's comments from last week to think that it will?

Yes, he seemed quite specific, and it was reported by Peter Dwyer too. I don't think we can just dismiss that as him 'talking through his hat.' Eir's Caolan Lennon was also talking up the electricity network for the NBP when Eamon Ryan kept arguing for it. I admit I'm puzzled by Eir's stance on this. They seem complacent about it, and that can't be right.

Denis Naughten

Will ESB poles be used? I am sure that not only ESB poles but also other ESB infrastructure, the metropolitan area networks across the country and other State-owned infrastructure will be used. We are looking at potentially up to 100% fibre, which will not be the case. We do not know how much less than that it will be. This is part of the ongoing work and engagement that has been taking place between the bidder and the Department.

jgbyr · 08-10-2018 04:12PM

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/1008/1001738-national-broadband-plan/

tsue921i8wljb3 · 08-10-2018 04:26PM

KOR101 wrote: »

Yes, he seemed quite specific, and it was reported by Peter Dwyer too. I don't think we can just dismiss that as him 'talking through his hat.' Eir's Caolan Lennon was also talking up the electricity network for the NBP when Eamon Ryan kept arguing for it. I admit I'm puzzled by Eir's stance on this. They seem complacent about it, and that can't be right.

Denis Naughten

Will ESB poles be used? I am sure that not only ESB poles but also other ESB infrastructure, the metropolitan area networks across the country and other State-owned infrastructure will be used. We are looking at potentially up to 100% fibre, which will not be the case. We do not know how much less than that it will be. This is part of the ongoing work and engagement that has been taking place between the bidder and the Department.

I would not dismiss it as talking through his hat but it could be a case of "we'll use ESB poles in areas where there is no, or insufficient, eir infrastructure". That would also satisfy his claims.

I think it is a large leap to assume that it all will be on ESB. Why were the ESB not listed as a partner or at least a sub-contractor? They are notoriously protectionist about access to their network.

I also think you're misreading Carolan Lennon's comments. That was not the impression I took from them. As for Eamon Ryan...

NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

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