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Child Item

NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

ED E

They've published!

The government has published a new map outlining in detail 700,000 rural homes and businesses which will be connected to state-subsidised broadband of at least 30 megabits per second (Mbs) from 2016.

http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/news/revealed-700000-homes-and-businesses-to-get-subsidised-fast-broadband-in-new-plan-30769126.html

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Johnboy1951

The high horse brigade wrote: »

Yes so why is it not an Eir and KN consortium? If Eir had got the contract would they not be free to employ whatever contractor offers them the best deal. Something don't smell right, stinks of political influence to ensure DOB got his share of the coffers

Probably not without approval by the department.

Without sight of the relevant documents, we don't know for sure, but I would expect the dept to have an oversight of such.

The high horse brigade

Ultimanemo wrote: »

KN group is installing fibre for eir right now, To me KN group is a subcontractor to eir

Yes so why is it not an Eir and KN consortium? If Eir had got the contract would they not be free to employ whatever contractor offers them the best deal. Something don't smell right, stinks of political influence to ensure DOB got his share of the coffers

Ultimanemo

The high horse brigade wrote: »

Why is there even a mention of sub contractors? Eir or Siro tenders wouldn't have mentioned sub contractors.

KN group is installing fibre for eir right now, To me KN group is a subcontractor to eir

KOR101

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Why not?

It was being called the ENET consortium, rather than the Nasty American Vulture Fund constorium for reasons that escape me.

[edit] really should say Venture Capitalist.......... (I should be a journalist)

Johnboy1951

The high horse brigade wrote: »

Why is there even a mention of sub contractors? Eir or Siro tenders wouldn't have mentioned sub contractors.

Why not?

I would suspect it is because the tenderer has to provide information on how they propose to do the roll out, including all in-house capabilities and to whom the out-sourcing of critical capabilities will be done.
The department would also 'vet' those 'sub-contractors' to ensure the viability of the overall tender.

The high horse brigade

Why is there even a mention of sub contractors? Eir or Siro tenders wouldn't have mentioned sub contractors.

KOR101

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

I wonder is it something to do with this?

from

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2018/1004/1000861-national-broadband/

Didn't they hire the ex-Eir chief commercial officer. He was one of those who left recently with millions.

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/enet-reels-in-former-eir-heavy-hitter-to-its-board-37141396.html

Also, one thing that has escaped people's notice is that ENET was never the lead biidder, McCourt was. In the minutes of the meeting, it says Arthur Cox advised the Department that the consortium change was legal, so long as the lead bidder stayed the same.

They should drop Actavo. Better a few blushes, than an ongoing saga.

Johnboy1951

Naughton attended a dinner of 'movers & shakers' which is what all politicians are required to do.
He seems to have adequately covered himself by bring multiple civil servants with him, who no doubt were present to deal with any specifics on any topic which might be raised, and keep him separated from such discussions.

I suspect he succeeded, as have other ministers before him.

On this I give him a cautious pass.
So far nothing substantial to worry about, except political point-scoring.

Hitman3000

rodge123 wrote:

The meeting with the final bidder doesn't give off a good impressions alright BUT correct me if i'm wrong, it happened after all bidders except enet had dropped out anyway. (Naughton still shouldn't have attended, looks bad even if nothing dodgy went on)

Fair play but what other response would you consider appropriate to Naughten's behaviour.

rodge123

fritzelly wrote: »

Because a lot of things are starting to smell a bit off, other politicians questioning the whole process - main parties leave, the final bidder members changing, private meetings etc etc

Not sure why people are bringing up the other parties leaving at this point, they dropped out at different points quite a while ago at this stage....it's not like they suddenly dropped out last minute.

Final bidder makeup changing should not matter as long as the consortium meets all requirements specified from the beginning by the department.

The meeting with the final bidder doesn't give off a good impressions alright BUT correct me if i'm wrong, it happened after all bidders except enet had dropped out anyway. (Naughton still shouldn't have attended, looks bad even if nothing dodgy went on)

fritzelly

rodge123 wrote: »

Exactly, is the court case even related at all to the NBP....it does seem that there are some people determined to try and bring the NBP down over the last few weeks, maybe certain wireless providers with vested interests! It's like someone has hired a private detective to uncover any sort of potential bad info on the bidders and is then releasing it to certain media.

Because a lot of things are starting to smell a bit off, other politicians questioning the whole process - main parties leave, the final bidder members changing, private meetings etc etc

rodge123

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

Death by a thousand cuts...

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/state-broadband-bidder-granahan-mccourt-sued-for-contract-breach-rxm8n7crq?t=ie

I'm not even sure if this is much of a story but there seems to be a concerted effort by some to drive this process over a cliff.

Exactly, is the court case even related at all to the NBP....it does seem that there are some people determined to try and bring the NBP down over the last few weeks, maybe certain wireless providers with vested interests! It's like someone has hired a private detective to uncover any sort of potential bad info on the bidders and is then releasing it to certain media.

tsue921i8wljb3

Why is he attending book launches and private dinners hosted by the front man of the bidder for a massive state contract? Surely he can see the optics are terrible.

The Cush

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

Death by a thousand cuts...

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/state-broadband-bidder-granahan-mccourt-sued-for-contract-breach-rxm8n7crq?t=ie

I'm not even sure if this is much of a story but there seems to be a concerted effort by some to drive this process over a cliff.

https://twitter.com/gloverstweets/status/1048714050149015552

tsue921i8wljb3

Death by a thousand cuts...

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/state-broadband-bidder-granahan-mccourt-sued-for-contract-breach-rxm8n7crq?t=ie

Granahan McCourt, the company leading the sole consortium bidding for the state’s €1bn broadband contract, the National Broadband Plan (NBP), was fighting a €19m lawsuit over the sale of Enet shares when its owner hosted Denis Naughten, the communications minister, and four of his officials at a New York dinner.

I'm not even sure if this is much of a story but there seems to be a concerted effort by some to drive this process over a cliff.

tsue921i8wljb3

The Cush wrote: »

Changes to the enet consortium? Tomorrow's Sunday Indo

I wonder is it something to do with this?

The need for a permanent, Irish-based, leadership position within the enet-led consortium ('the consortium') - This was being addressed and an individual has been selected for the role.

from

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2018/1004/1000861-national-broadband/

The Cush

Changes to the enet consortium? Tomorrow's Sunday Indo

https://twitter.com/adrianweckler/status/1048697654274920454

https://twitter.com/adrianweckler/status/1048700226138267648

westyIrl

KOR101 wrote: »

Although, I think as sh**storms go, this is pretty minor. Imagine what would have happened if the whole thing had collapsed.

Completely agree. If this is as dirty as he gets his jib, he'll have done well. Good job minutes were kept, regardless of how reflective of reality they are.

I'd hate to see the plan sink over something like this.

Jim

turbbo

KOR101 wrote: »

Although, I think as sh**storms go, this is pretty minor. Imagine what would have happened if the whole thing had collapsed.

I'd agree that this is just noise from opposition on this particular news. Far worse has happened out in the open - in front of everybody because of dumb EU funding regulations making what should be a simple process massively complicated - that's when cute hoors like Dennis O'Brien show up in the mix. Don't see how he's any worse than the rest of them in Eircom at this stage.

KOR101

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

Oh dear. What was Denis thinking?

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/naughten-defends-meeting-bidder-during-broadband-tender-process-1.3651520

https://www.independent.ie/business/naughten-defends-meeting-with-broadband-bidder-during-tender-process-37386146.html

Minutes of the meeting have been released to RTÉ.

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2018/1004/1000861-national-broadband/

Although, I think as sh**storms go, this is pretty minor. Imagine what would have happened if the whole thing had collapsed.

wexfordman2

fritzelly wrote: »

How much did it cost them?

Part from the obvious and restrictive issues with deploying a wireless solution, just to highlight a few non technical issues with a wireless deploy ment.

1) advanced wireless networks have been in this country for nearly 25 years.
2) 4 different networks rolled out, and still not near 100% geographical coverage.... Precisely because its not easy.
3) The hidden costs of wireless are not obvious, including spectrum licencing, planning costs, software licencing costs, feature costs, rental and maintenance.
4) Deployment Costs if about 100k per site are not outlandish. This could end up serving anything from 10 to 100 people only.
5) taking the project lifespan of 25 years....and this one is an absolute deezer....most.if the existing mobile networks have had 3 or 4 network upgrades within the last 20 years!!! One former company I worked for just over 20 years replaced the hardware in their access network 4 times, and are planning on doing it again shortly. That's 5 times within 25 years they have completely replaced all the hardware in their access network in order to keep providing up to date and evolving services and standards.
6) we haven't even begun to discuss the requirements of a backhaul network to support that.

So, yeah, rollout national wireless, overspend on a short term project where you are pretty much guaranteed to need to swap the entire network out again in 5 years.

[Deleted User]

oscarBravo wrote: »

How many of them don't have electricity?

How many of them don't have mobile coverage?

Want to place a wager as to which number is higher?

This is actually an interesting point, I go in and out to Limerick pretty much every day, there's a stretch of backroads where the mobile coverage is basically ****, barely passes for 3G, want to know what they have on the telephone poles? Fibre....

oscarBravo

fritzelly wrote: »

How much did it cost them?

You seem to be working hard to avoid my point, in large part through selective quoting.

You argue that it's unfeasible to bring a wired service to every house in the country, while every house in the country has a wired service.

You argue that it will be necessary to provide a wireless service to these houses, when not every house in the country has a wireless service.

This idea that it's easy to provide 100% wireless coverage of the country is completely unsupported by the evidence, and needs to die in a fire.

The high horse brigade

fritzelly wrote: »

How much did it cost them?

I don't understand. If they have electricity why not use the same infrastructure to deliver fibre.

fritzelly

oscarBravo wrote: »

How many of them don't have electricity?

How much did it cost them?

tsue921i8wljb3

Oh dear. What was Denis thinking?

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/naughten-defends-meeting-bidder-during-broadband-tender-process-1.3651520

https://www.independent.ie/business/naughten-defends-meeting-with-broadband-bidder-during-tender-process-37386146.html

Minutes of the meeting have been released to RTÉ.

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2018/1004/1000861-national-broadband/

oscarBravo

fritzelly wrote: »

There are plenty of one off or even 2 or 3 or 4 off houses miles from anyone else.
Not saying its in the tens of thousands but there is certainly enough of them.
No company is going to run fibre to them...

How many of them don't have electricity?

How many of them don't have mobile coverage?

Want to place a wager as to which number is higher?

tototoe

Ten Pin wrote: »

This "messing" that accompanies any / all such issues involving state contracts is so ingrained that they just can't help themselves, so much so that it's second nature and can't see any conflict of interest whatsoever or else they just don't care as long as they keep their pensions.

The quacking is deafening at this stage.

They don't care to be honest. Just more of the same imo. When people keep voting for the same narrow band of politicians either FF or FG, that's what happens.

turbbo

The Stand with Eamon Dunphy - podcast:
https://itunes.apple.com/ie/podcast/ep-236-is-denis-obrien-about-to-bag-another-big-state/id1178026212?i=1000420474260&mt=2

Ten Pin

This "messing" that accompanies any / all such issues involving state contracts is so ingrained that they just can't help themselves, so much so that it's second nature and can't see any conflict of interest whatsoever or else they just don't care as long as they keep their pensions.

The quacking is deafening at this stage.