Travellers want a state apology

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I would never be so rude as to presume a post of yours was a figment of your imagination . Then any post on any subject you have no experience of could be a figment of that posters imagination ?

If I said I'd seen a rainbow-coloured unicorn, you would assume that rainbow-coloured unicorns not only exist, but are quite common, and anybody who doesn't believe in rainbow-coloured unicorns are wrong?

Vincent Vega wrote: »

You generally have to give people the time of day, set your prejudices aside and actually get to know them before you'd experience the first three.
The fourth would require them to actually receive equal opportunity employment. Even still, I have worked with a number of Travellers working hard to better their community.
And the last I've known quite a few

Not at all. The vast majority of people I come across, from all walks of life, every day, base their behaviour on their own moral code rather than waiting for me to get to know them before they decide whether they will act civilised, or like savages.

Vincent Vega wrote: »

Nah.

And I haven't been in any way histrionic in how I've commented on this topic so far.

If a specific Traveller family had trouble with a specific venue it's more than understandable that they should be refused in the future.

Punishing others for their actions isn't.

Out of curiosity, do you think all the hotels and bars that refuse to take bookings for travellers weddings do so out of some weird prejudice against taking money from travellers, or out of the knowledge that the damage to their premises, and the risk to their staff is too high based on decades of experience?

Gravelly wrote: »

Out of curiosity, do you think all the hotels and bars that refuse to take bookings for travellers weddings do so out of some weird prejudice against taking money from travellers, or out of the knowledge that the damage to their premises, and the risk to their staff is too high based on decades of experience?

Well like I said, I feel like it should come down to whether or not there is any history between the specific family and the specific establishment.

A refusal on the basis of 'look, your family was here before and you caused trouble, so no' seems more than reasonable.

I don't believe its in any way fair to assume that because the O'Briens from Donegal caused trouble that the Maughans from Kerry will necessarily do so also.
These could be entirely different types of people.

That said, I wouldn't claim that I don't at least understand the apprehension from the owners POV given the general consensus regarding Travellers.

Arkham City wrote: »

Is it possible to see the names of who voted? I'd love to know who are the 23 clowns who voted yes.

Only 22 are unknown 😎

Sorry, just saw this. State apology, for what?! HAHAHAHAHa

wexie wrote: »

I think the problem with that would be that while there are certainly traveller's out there that would be of good will and would behave at a family event, it takes only a few to cause problems.

You say you know some travellers, so I suppose you would be happy to vouch for them right?

Would you be happy to vouch for the fact if they had their wedding at X venue there wouldn't be any trouble? At all?

Cause the intermediary wouldn't be just vouching for the ones they know, they'd have to vouch for all the guests, and they'd have to vouch for all the guests....with alcohol taken....

I don't know what the solution is either by the way. Perhaps we could get Pavee point to put their money where their mouth is and be this intermediary.

In an honest way, if the event goes off without a hitch and without trouble they get to publicize it as much as they want as an example of how we should give travellers a chance, but if it doesn't then they reimburse the venue for any costs and also publicly condemn and address whatever behaviour caused the issues?

I appreciate your taking the time to respond in a reasonable manner here, as opposed to just trying to cut my post down for what it was never trying to be.

I don't get why even trying to see a way forward and progress a dire situation gets mixed up with and read into as being a blind defense of all and every action under the umbrella.

With regards to me myself vouching... Even vouching for a number of settled friends and family, that they were good people, vouching for those same people absolutely smashed out of it and highly emotional, perhaps not.

I don't know who or what form this intermediary would or could be, but ideally one that was a middle ground with a strong interest in things running smoothly for both sides, with the hope of improving overall relationships and setting an example for future Traveller events.
Maybe there could be some incentives involved to encourage and promote positive behaviour, leading to repeat custom.

I'd say Pavee Point hold a far too established position for such a role, and I wouldn't see them holding Travellers accountable and calling them out for wrongdoing if it were to occur because it would probably damage their relation to the community.

In any case, as far as Travellers are concerned, coming up with a perfect solution for a high concentration of drunk and highly emotional people with plenty of other issues in the mix seems well down the list of priorities. Maybe it will just continue as is for the foreseeable future.

The trouble that can happen at these events is merely a symptom of much greater underlying issues which need to be looked at and addressed first.

It's a slow road ahead, but i think everyday engagement from the settled community, in they hope that these people might or could be good people too would be a positive start.

CeilingFly wrote: »

I was dropping into a local Aldi today.

Saw a white a4 strewn across the pedestrian crossing beside the entrance "parked"

Said to the wife - has to be a Traveller only such scum would park without a care to the obstruction they'd cause other. She laughed and said I just had an issue with them and it was probably someone collecting someone.

I had a €5 bet with her.

We waited a few minutes.

I won my bet.

How did you know they were a traveller?

NIMAN wrote: »

How did you know they were a traveller?

The same way I knew the Avensis parked skewways across the door of my local petrol station shop last Saturday was a traveller - they are lazy and inconsiderate as a rule.
Go to any supermarket in any provincial town anywhere in Ireland any weekend and look out for cars parked across the doorways, in handicapped spaces, or blocking entrances. There’s a good chance the driver will be a traveller.

Gravelly wrote: »

The same way I knew the Avensis parked skewways across the door of my local petrol station shop last Saturday was a traveller - they are lazy and inconsiderate as a rule.
Go to any supermarket in any provincial town anywhere in Ireland any weekend and look out for cars parked across the doorways, in handicapped spaces, or blocking entrances. There’s a good chance the driver will be a traveller.

To be fair you want to come to Derry....its full of inconsiderate eejits who park across bays, in disabled spaces etc, and none of them are travellers.

Ally Dick wrote:

I heard a good one from a few years ago. A man with some land arrived one day to find about 10 piebald horses grazing in his fields. He found the perpetrators and had a chat with them. He told them that he didn't have a problem with them putting the horses on his land, but he couldn't be held responsible if anything happened the horses, or if the horses did anything, and he got them to sign a disclaimer as such. The next week all the horses in the field were found dead. Someone mysteriously shot them.

What's good about that?

Vincent Vega wrote: »

I appreciate your taking the time to respond in a reasonable manner here, as opposed to just trying to cut my post down for what it was never trying to be.

I don't get why even trying to see a way forward and progress a dire situation gets mixed up with and read into as being a blind defense of all and every action under the umbrella.


With regards to me myself vouching... Even vouching for a number of settled friends and family, that they were good people, vouching for those same people absolutely smashed out of it and highly emotional, perhaps not.

I don't know who or what form this intermediary would or could be, but ideally one that was a middle ground with a strong interest in things running smoothly for both sides, with the hope of improving overall relationships and setting an example for future Traveller events.
Maybe there could be some incentives involved to encourage and promote positive behaviour, leading to repeat custom.

I'd say Pavee Point hold a far too established position for such a role, and I wouldn't see them holding Travellers accountable and calling them out for wrongdoing if it were to occur because it would probably damage their relation to the community.

In any case, as far as Travellers are concerned, coming up with a perfect solution for a high concentration of drunk and highly emotional people with plenty of other issues in the mix seems well down the list of priorities. Maybe it will just continue as is for the foreseeable future.

The trouble that can happen at these events is merely a symptom of much greater underlying issues which need to be looked at and addressed first.


It's a slow road ahead, but i think everyday engagement from the settled community, in they hope that these people might or could be good people too would be a positive start.

Just gonna respond the highlighted sections in order:

A) Because you gloss over any wrongdoing or peoples negative experiences with Travellers with "well, I know some nice ones!" while ignoring the colossal scales of difference between the negative actions of either side to the other. That and you continue on about how the Settled community are the ones who need to make the changes and ignore or mealy-mouth respond to any hint of change within the Traveller community.

Incentives to have their weddings/funerals go off without trashing the place....so paying them to act the same way every other wedding party/wake will....why? Its basic respect to not destroy someones premises; that cover charge for the party is not a carte-blanche payment to act like ignorant thugs! And the idea of "repeat business" does not apply here; this is not an untapped market the hotels are trying to exploit, and I can say any other guests who are harassed during the "festivities" wont be coming back so paying to lose future guests is not a great business model!

C) Pavee Point a lobbyist group, nothing else. They wont say anything negative about Travellers not so they wont distance themselves from the Traveller community but as its not their prerogative/job. Its why they never respond to any of the long list of negative news pieces but would be screaming and harping on and demanding reparations if someone didn't hold a door for a Traveller in a shop: they will only present Travellers as put upon flowers being stamped on by de evil Settled people....shades of which I see in all your posts (see point A)

D) So, you can easily identify the action the Settled community need to take to resolve a very, very deeply knotted issue (treat all Travellers as poor darling little angels) but cant come up with even a basic idea on how to resolve a single issue concerning Travellers (wrecking pubs/hotels).....I dunno, maybe...end all the feuding, its probably where most of these issues arise from!

E) So do that then! As above, you will bang on about the problems with the Settled community and what we need to do, but won't say jot about what the Traveller community can do to present a better face to help encourage this! Maybe ending the feuding, which by the by I don't think has been forced on them by the Settled community or is a consequence of not being invited to kids birthday parties so it has no bearing on whether the Settled community start being nicer; it will drain out a huge amount of the physicality, thuggishness and violence within their culture/community and can then prevent the flare ups at large social gatherings (generally where their "honour" will be called up because of the large scale and multiple families present).

F) And here we are back again, with "well the Settled community need to make the first (and only) step!" You even use "might or could be good people"....well as it stands I would say a lot of Settled folks will not believe that from past experiences...so asking them to change on blind faith is an astronomical ask! Why cant it be the Traveller community that makes the larger first step? Simple basic stuff, like tidying up halting sites (I've never seen a clean one ever) or not pulling kids from school at 11 "just because...."?