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Dublin - BusConnects

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    #452
    nordydan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,104 ✭✭✭nordydan


    L1011 wrote: »
    It reduces the number of bus drivers required to provide the same level of service. That is the reason the far left union is against it and their political followers have followed

    Not one driver will be laid off, the plan massively increases the number of buses and drivers required - just less than if they kept the current mess

    Far left?? Unions exist for good reason. It doesn't mean that their leaders are always well informed (like this case).


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    #453
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,784 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    The NBRU are far left compared to the other unions in transport in Ireland


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    #454
    tom1ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,102 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Looking at the bus connects maps, the trunk routes a, b,c etc are these the routes that the corridor widening will exclusively occur, ie is it only these routes where there will be unbroken qbc’s all the way to the quays?
    So routes s1 and s2 won’t have unbroken bus lanes and route a1 won’t have an unbroken qbc until it hits the trunk A route?
    Am I right in thinking this?


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    #455
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,486 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    tom1ie wrote: »
    Looking at the bus connects maps, the trunk routes a, b,c etc are these the routes that the corridor widening will exclusively occur, ie is it only these routes where there will be unbroken qbc’s all the way to the quays?
    So routes s1 and s2 won’t have unbroken bus lanes and route a1 won’t have an unbroken qbc until it hits the trunk A route?
    Am I right in thinking this?

    I'd have to double check, but I believe it goes beyond just the trunk part of the routes, though obviously they would be the priority.


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    #456
    tom1ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,102 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    bk wrote: »
    I'd have to double check, but I believe it goes beyond just the trunk part of the routes, though obviously they would be the priority.

    Yeah I haven’t seen any specifics stating this in the documentation that’s been released so far.


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    #457
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,486 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    tom1ie wrote: »
    Yeah I haven’t seen any specifics stating this in the documentation that’s been released so far.

    The docs released so far have been pretty high level. I believe the detailed design and actual street level plans are due in a few months.

    It certainly wouldn't make sense for a route like the A2 (the one to the airport, similar to the 16), not to be fully QBC it's entire length.

    On the other hand some of the routes seem to taper off into almost local routes at their end, so they mightn't all be treated as such. I'd say we need to wait and see.


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    #458
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,554 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    tom1ie wrote: »
    Looking at the bus connects maps, the trunk routes a, b,c etc are these the routes that the corridor widening will exclusively occur, ie is it only these routes where there will be unbroken qbc’s all the way to the quays?
    So routes s1 and s2 won’t have unbroken bus lanes and route a1 won’t have an unbroken qbc until it hits the trunk A route?
    Am I right in thinking this?

    I think that you’re being over-optimistic there - unbroken bus lanes are impossible along most of the south central corridors. That’s unless you demolish a LOT of buildings!

    The S2 (there is no S1) is the replacement for the 18 - any form of infrastructure improvement is likely to be minimal given the space constraints.


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    #459
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,241 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    tom1ie wrote: »
    Yeah I haven’t seen any specifics stating this in the documentation that’s been released so far.

    Eyeballing the two maps, in some cases the Core Bus Corridors go far beyond the spine, as in the case of the Swords to City Centre route, and in other cases they end pretty much where the spine splits, like the Ballymun to City Centre route.


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    #460
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,276 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    The routes that'll have continuous QBCs were set out in this document:

    https://busconnects.ie/media/1225/busconnects-public-consultation-document-web-low-res.pdf

    This excludes the City Centre sections. Basically all of the trunks are covered and many of the branches are also covered, some orbital sections will also see improvements.
    I would say the first things to be done are the measures that only require paint on a road, signs etc, for example Prussia St and Old Cabra Rd being bus only, instantly shaving 15-20 mins off the B routes at peak times.

    Then the read widening will start in ernest, expect roads in the South West of the City to be prioritiesed as they will yield the largest gains in improved journey times.


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    #461
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,554 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    cgcsb wrote: »
    The routes that'll have continuous QBCs were set out in this document:

    https://busconnects.ie/media/1225/busconnects-public-consultation-document-web-low-res.pdf

    This excludes the City Centre sections. Basically all of the trunks are covered and many of the branches are also covered, some orbital sections will also see improvements.
    I would say the first things to be done are the measures that only require paint on a road, signs etc, for example Prussia St and Old Cabra Rd being bus only, instantly shaving 15-20 mins off the B routes at peak times.

    Then the read widening will start in ernest, expect roads in the South West of the City to be prioritiesed as they will yield the largest gains in improved journey times.

    Permanently closing roads to traffic will require approval at local authority level - the NTA have no statutory powers in that area. They can come up with the proposals but local authorities still hold the statutory approval powers.

    That’s not going to simply require paint - it’s going to require approval from local politicians as indeed will the city centre plans. That’s going to need a lot of political work!

    I honestly think that this element is going to take far longer than you think, and that is before the CPOs get bogged down in legal action.


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    #462
    Dardania
    Registered Users Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Dardania


    LXFlyer wrote: »
    cgcsb wrote: »
    The routes that'll have continuous QBCs were set out in this document:

    https://busconnects.ie/media/1225/busconnects-public-consultation-document-web-low-res.pdf

    This excludes the City Centre sections. Basically all of the trunks are covered and many of the branches are also covered, some orbital sections will also see improvements.
    I would say the first things to be done are the measures that only require paint on a road, signs etc, for example Prussia St and Old Cabra Rd being bus only, instantly shaving 15-20 mins off the B routes at peak times.

    Then the read widening will start in ernest, expect roads in the South West of the City to be prioritiesed as they will yield the largest gains in improved journey times.

    Permanently closing roads to traffic will require approval at local authority level - the NTA have no statutory powers in that area. They can come up with the proposals but local authorities still hold the statutory approval powers.

    That’s not going to simply require paint - it’s going to require approval from local politicians as indeed will the city centre plans. That’s going to need a lot of political work!

    I honestly think that this element is going to take far longer than you think, and that is before the CPOs get bogged down in legal action.
    This indeed will be a killer. As we see in the recent consultation for this: https://dlrcoco.citizenspace.com/transportation/monkstown-road-cycle-route/ 
    DLRCoCo didn't take on the tough challenge of CPO'ing portions of front gardens, and failed to deliver a consistent solution for cyclists.


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    #463
    tom1ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,102 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    LXFlyer wrote: »
    I think that you’re being over-optimistic there - unbroken bus lanes are impossible along most of the south central corridors. That’s unless you demolish a LOT of buildings!

    The S2 (there is no S1) is the replacement for the 18 - any form of infrastructure improvement is likely to be minimal given the space constraints.

    there is on the map?


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    #464
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,276 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    LXFlyer wrote: »
    Permanently closing roads to traffic will require approval at local authority level - the NTA have no statutory powers in that area. They can come up with the proposals but local authorities still hold the statutory approval powers.

    That’s not going to simply require paint - it’s going to require approval from local politicians as indeed will the city centre plans. That’s going to need a lot of political work!

    I honestly think that this element is going to take far longer than you think, and that is before the CPOs get bogged down in legal action.

    If they bundle the works into large enough packages, the NTA can apply directly to ABP for permission under the strategic infrastructure act. cuts out the middle man.


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    #465
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,554 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    cgcsb wrote: »
    If they bundle the works into large enough packages, the NTA can apply directly to ABP for permission under the strategic infrastructure act. cuts out the middle man.

    You’re making a lot of assumptions there.

    As it stands, I’ve seen no evidence that is going to happen.


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    #466
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,554 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    tom1ie wrote: »
    there is on the map?

    Which map?

    The orbital bus routes are numbered S2, S4, S6/S7 and S8?


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    #467
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,276 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    LXFlyer wrote: »
    You’re making a lot of assumptions there.

    As it stands, I’ve seen no evidence that is going to happen.

    I'm not saying it WILL happen that way, rather I'm saying that's how it SHOULD be managed in my opinion.


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    #468
    Dardania
    Registered Users Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Dardania


    cgcsb wrote: »
    LXFlyer wrote: »
    You’re making a lot of assumptions there.

    As it stands, I’ve seen no evidence that is going to happen.

    I'm not saying it WILL happen that way, rather I'm saying that's how it SHOULD be managed in my opinion.
    I agree it should. there are conflicts of interests at play here - the people travelling through an area versus the people living in the area. How are the competing needs balanced. If the local authority is just looking at it, they would be tempted to only think about the people living in the area, as the people passing through are none of their real concern.


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    #469
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,554 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    cgcsb wrote: »
    I'm not saying it WILL happen that way, rather I'm saying that's how it SHOULD be managed in my opinion.

    I get that now - it was just that reading your posts on the city centre (Bachelor’s Walk and George’s St for example) and the likes of Prussia St, you seemed to think that it was all very straightforward and a done deal.

    I would argue that’s anything but the case and that there’s a lot of local politics to deal with - I would not take anything for granted.


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    #470
    tom1ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,102 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    LXFlyer wrote: »
    Which map?

    The orbital bus routes are numbered S2, S4, S6/S7 and S8?

    My apologies lx it’s the s6/s7 I was thinking of.


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    #471
    tom1ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,102 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    So from reading the opinions expressed here, the answer to the question is, we don’t really know at this stage and there’s a hell of a lot to be ironed out in the near future regarding how far the unbroken qbc’s will reach out into the suburbs.
    Do we know the timescale as to when the first qbc is to start design,or is it a case that all routes have been designed and we will be going to public consultation soon?


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    #472
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,276 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    tom1ie wrote: »
    So from reading the opinions expressed here, the answer to the question is, we don’t really know at this stage and there’s a hell of a lot to be ironed out in the near future regarding how far the unbroken qbc’s will reach out into the suburbs.
    Do we know the timescale as to when the first qbc is to start design,or is it a case that all routes have been designed and we will be going to public consultation soon?

    Public consultations will start in October. a map of where the continuous QBCs are going is on the busconnects website and a link has been posted here. Yes at this stage the routes have been more/less designed and will be launched in a months time.


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    #473
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    I'm confused how the NTA on one hand think Swords needs a high capacity Metro and on the other hand thinks a 15-20 min frequency service to Dublin is suitable.


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    #474
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    I'm confused how the NTA on one hand think Swords needs a high capacity Metro and on the other hand thinks a 15-20 min frequency service to Dublin is suitable.

    One thing worth remembering is that the Bus Connects plan assumes that the current capacity will be the same as is now post BC. There will be increased in the coming years investment so many frequencies will change for the better I would assume.


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    #475
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,886 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    The bus in the big picture of PT is the lowest of the low. Always was, but it serves so many.

    The Luas can be slow, but it's reliable.

    DART is the creme de la creme.

    It is only when the bus will be as good (or better) than Luas or Dart that people will be on board with this. Pun intended.


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    #476
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    The bus in the big picture of PT is the lowest of the low. Always was, but it serves so many.

    The Luas can be slow, but it's reliable.

    DART is the creme de la creme.

    It is only when the bus will be as good (or better) than Luas or Dart that people will be on board with this. Pun intended.

    To be fair in a lot of cities the bus is usually an inferior option to Metro, Rail and Trams but I don't think this is true in all cases. I live near the N11 QBC for example and I would say that the bus service along the corridor is almost on a par with the Luas and the DART.

    I wouldn't think the DART is the creme de la creme either the frequency on it is too low however ten minute frequencies will improve that and put it on a par with the Luas.


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    #477
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,886 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    To be fair in a lot of cities the bus is usually an inferior option to Metro, Rail and Trams but I don't think this is true in all cases. I live near the N11 QBC for example and I would say that the bus service along the corridor is almost on a par with the Luas and the DART.

    I wouldn't think the DART is the creme de la creme either the frequency on it is too low however ten minute frequencies will improve that and put it on a par with the Luas.

    The N11 corridor passengers at some points have the option of DART. That does not apply to the vast majority of commuters though.

    DART is reliable and no hold ups generally speaking regarding traffic accidents and drivers using the bus lane either.


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    #478
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,348 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    I'm confused how the NTA on one hand think Swords needs a high capacity Metro and on the other hand thinks a 15-20 min frequency service to Dublin is suitable.
    Is it a 15/20 mins frequency on the Swords Road in addition to the many express services through the Port Tunnel?


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    #479
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    marno21 wrote: »
    Is it a 15/20 mins frequency on the Swords Road in addition to the many express services through the Port Tunnel?

    No, the 41x and 33x are to go.
    the swords express and fingal express are not fully accesible, and so should play no part in any nta planning.


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    #480
    Stevek101
    Registered Users Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭Stevek101


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    No, the 41x and 33x are to go.
    the swords express and fingal express are not fully accesible, and so should play no part in any nta planning.


    41x isn't going anywhere it is now the 382 and 384.


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    #481
    JohnC.
    Registered Users Posts: 3,383 ✭✭✭JohnC.


    What's going on now? I just caught the end of something on the radio a little earlier, something about FF changing their minds and going against this now?


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