Property Market 2018

draiochtanois · 17-09-2018 10:54am

This post has been deleted.

phunkadelic · 17-09-2018 10:59am

Cyrus wrote: »

but they arent, if they all accept simultaneously you will have to withdraw 3 of them.

And as for the rest of your post :rolleyes: either you can afford to buy something you need and you do or you cant, but leave the hyperbole out of it, does no one any good.

i hope when you come to sell your prospective buyers are genuine.

The vendors are being greedy, holding out for more for months and months. It will blow up in 3 of their faces, but that's not my problem.
It's up to one of them to take the substantial and reasonable offer.

Cyrus · 17-09-2018 11:04am

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

what is nonsense?

Cyrus · 17-09-2018 11:06am

phunkadelic wrote: »

The vendors are being greedy, holding out for more for months and months. It will blow up in 3 of their faces, but that's not my problem.
It's up to one of them to take the substantial and reasonable offer.

its a reasonable offer in your opinion, if it was that reasonable you would imagine 1 of the 4 vendors would have accepted.

i hope for your sake that this doesnt happen you in the future.

q85dw7osi4lebg · 17-09-2018 11:08am

Cyrus wrote: »

yes, you are highest bidder on 4, you can only buy one, 3 sellers think they have a genuine offer that isnt genuine.

Worse than that, the price of 4 houses have just been pushed up rather than one. This is how prices rise. Then we hear complaints about high prices.

Cyrus · 17-09-2018 11:11am

Eleanor Howling Anorexic wrote: »

Worse than that, the price of 4 houses have just been pushed up rather than one. This is how prices rise. Then we hear complaints about high prices.

yes good point, you arent just shafting the seller, you are shafting other interested parties

phunkadelic · 17-09-2018 11:14am

Cyrus wrote: »

yes good point, you arent just shafting the seller, you are shafting other interested parties

There is no other interested parties. All 4 properties have been up for over 2 months. At some point they have to realise they are not getting any more.
If we concentrated on one house only, and the bidding went out of our range, we could lose out on lots more properties in that time.

Cyrus · 17-09-2018 11:19am

phunkadelic wrote: »

There is no other interested parties. All 4 properties have been up for over 2 months. At some point they have to realise they are not getting any more.
If we concentrated on one house only, and the bidding went out of our range, we could lose out on lots more properties in that time.

but there may be, and to bid they will have to offer more than your non genuine bid.

you can only buy one house, if there is no one bidding on the others why did you need to make a bid then? you arent going to miss out if theres no one bidding.

cruizer101 · 17-09-2018 11:25am

What do you think they should do?

If they withdraw all but one they may still not get that one and the others may sell so they are left with nothing. I see no issue with bidding on multiple houses, its not like they are sale agreed on multiple houses which I do think would be bit morally wrong although technically is still fine.

phunkadelic · 17-09-2018 11:26am

Cyrus wrote: »

but there may be, and to bid they will have to offer more than your non genuine bid.

you can only buy one house, if there is no one bidding on the others why did you need to make a bid then? you arent going to miss out if theres no one bidding.

What about my genuine bids is not genuine? I'd proceed with any of them if only they would accept.
I might put the fire under them this week and give them an expiry date for my bids. I'll keep you posted anyway.

keane2097 · 17-09-2018 11:28am

Good grief. Four houses with no offers on them, any of which a given individual would be happy to buy at a certain price.

This buyer apparently has to make their bid on the first one, wait months to be told yes or no before it's ok to make a different offer on a different house that they would also be happy to buy at a given price in a timely manner?

Mickiemcfist · 17-09-2018 11:38am

I don't see the issue with bidding on multiple properties, a seller is offering a house for a figure to the market, the buyer is offering a figure to the houseowner, if they match then fair enough, if owner doesn't take that figure, this buyer is saving other bidders time & effort by getting closer to the minimum accepted amount.

Bob24 · 17-09-2018 11:41am

Eleanor Howling Anorexic wrote: »

Worse than that, the price of 4 houses have just been pushed up rather than one. This is how prices rise. Then we hear complaints about high prices.

Exactly what I was going to say. If everyone behaves in that way it just pushes prices up across the board. EAs actually don’t mind these unreliable bids as it gives them bullets to increase prices for genuine bidders.

If those houses have no other offers and sellers are taking ages to accept/reject the offer it is a bit different though. If someone makes an offer and the seller takes a month to come back they can’t expect that offer will necessarily still be valid.

But then from the OP’s perspective if they are making offers on multiple properties and being ignored by all sellers in the same way, they should draw some conclusion and start considering their offers are probably just too low for the type of houses they are looking at. I.e. if they made offers and never heard back after several weeks, rather than saying they are the highest bidder on 4 houses, maybe a better description of the situation is that their offers have been ignored on 4 houses.

phunkadelic · 17-09-2018 11:55am

Bob24 wrote: »

Exactly what I was going to say. If everyone behaves in that way it just pushes prices up across the board. EAs actually don’t mind these unreliable bids as it gives them bullets to increase prices for genuine bidders.

If those houses have no other offers and sellers are taking ages to accept/reject the offer it is a bit different though. If someone makes an offer and the seller takes a month to come back they can’t expect that offer will necessarily still be valid.

But then from the OP’s perspective if they are making offers on multiple properties and being ignored by all sellers in the same way, they should draw some conclusion and start considering their offers are probably just too low for the type of houses they are looking at. I.e. if they made offers and never heard back after several weeks, rather than saying they are the higher bidder on 4 houses, maybe a better description of the situation is that their offers have been ignored on 4 houses.

I agree on most of it, in the start I only got involved on one property at a time. But they invariably went out of range pricewise, and there I was back to square 1, 6 weeks after the house was listed. How many suitable properties came and went in that time? Lots.
The market decides what price is too low. For the last 3 years or so it has been a sellers market, but I think sellers are getting carried away now and assuming that prices can only continue to rise. I get the impression that the pool of people that can afford €650k is dwindling and many are probably waiting til January to get an exception to the central bank lending rules.
One of our offers is actually 5k over asking, and they still won't accept it.

17-09-2018 12:26pm

enricoh wrote: »

A neighbour of mine built his house here more or less from materials he bought in Poland. Concrete, blocks and timber were Irish n that was about it. 3k for a 40' delivered. Had a crew of Polish lads doing the building.
A mate of mine was in Bucharest recently and was telling me he had a top class software developer working for him for 2 weeks over there for the princely sum of e500! He was saying if our corporation tax ever changes the game is up here.

Corporation tax in Romania is 16%, 19% in Poland.
If corporations could get what they get done in Ireland for half the cost in Poland or Romania I don't think 3.5% and 6.5% higher corporation tax would be keeping them here.

So they either can't get their business done over there (various politics perhaps and also "Made in Romania" might not inspire confidence in some customers' countries) or it's not actually that cheap in comparison, all considered (corporation tax headline rates across Europe are less than indicative of what actually goes on anyway as we all know)

Bob24 · 17-09-2018 12:52pm

phunkadelic wrote: »

I agree on most of it, in the start I only got involved on one property at a time. But they invariably went out of range pricewise, and there I was back to square 1, 6 weeks after the house was listed. How many suitable properties came and went in that time? Lots.
The market decides what price is too low. For the last 3 years or so it has been a sellers market, but I think sellers are getting carried away now and assuming that prices can only continue to rise. I get the impression that the pool of people that can afford €650k is dwindling and many are probably waiting til January to get an exception to the central bank lending rules.
One of our offers is actually 5k over asking, and they still won't accept it.

Yeah it is quite possible that some sellers are a bit to carried away. Having said that if offers consistantly result in not getting traction with various properties I would still suggest they are probably too low. As you mention the market decides on the price, and if no one is interested in selling at the prices you offer, it probably means you are below the market (if those property stay on daft for months and don’t shift it might mean that sellers expect a bit much and maybe they’ll go down in price after a while, but still currently their is nothing available at the price you are offering). They key point is that it is not happening with just one property but with many of them.

Having said that, fully agree that if someone makes an offer above asking and the seller doesn’t provide an answer for weeks or month following that offer; that seller is clearly taking the piss and I would consider them unreliable.

phunkadelic · 17-09-2018 1:19pm

It might take time, but I am convinced that one of them will accept an offer in the next month, once they realise the slowdown has kicked in.

Q&A · 17-09-2018 5:17pm

phunkadelic wrote: »

It might take time, but I am convinced that one of them will accept an offer in the next month, once they realise the slowdown has kicked in.

When did you place your offers? Might it be that the four owners are waiting for January and the return of exemptions. If it were me I'd sell in first half of year and purchase in second half. Lots of money floating around in early part of the year and a little more sense in the latter half.

Alkers · 17-09-2018 5:20pm

phunkadelic wrote: »

It might take time, but I am convinced that one of them will accept an offer in the next month, once they realise the slowdown has kicked in.

I think this slowdown is restricted to properties in your price range. Down closer to 400k, there's still multiple parties bidding on anything even half way liveable!

KevinCavan · 17-09-2018 5:27pm

rosmoke wrote: »

I know it's hard to believe when we are used with the prices from here.
My cousin built a 6 bedroom house (excluding the 100mp2 attic) with 80k. But there isn't a term of comparison in terms of quality.
Constructions are way more different there, solid thick concrete walls. Has underfloor heating and utility bill costs him 20e a month in winter, to keep the house at 23 Celsius degrees (winters there can go up to -20 degrees)
No problems with noise either.
He personally seen the house I live in, it costed 370k during the boom, 80k in 2012 and 200k now. His exactly words were "I can build this with 17k there".

Again, I know salaries differ, quality of life, etc. This example was written with the intent of highlighting that it is possible cheaper & better.

Thanks for your post. I hate the bullsh1t here that a builder can’t make a profit unless he sells for €500,000 type nonsense. That a builder can’t get out of bed for less than €1000 per day. I heard on the radio before that there would be no housing crisis if we were able to ship them over from abroad. Don’t think Spanish builders are spouting the same crap.

Eric Cartman · 17-09-2018 5:33pm

KevinCavan wrote: »

Thanks for your post. I hate the bullsh1t here that a builder can’t make a profit unless he sells for €500,000 type nonsense. That a builder can’t get out of bed for less than €1000 per day. I heard on the radio before that there would be no housing crisis if we were able to ship them over from abroad. Don’t think Spanish builders are spouting the same crap.

associations, local materials and restrictive building rules, licencing rules etc... In complete agreement, were we to remove local needs, no residential zoning and the planning rules I could easily buy an acre of land and have a lovely 3000sq ft palace constructed for under 300k and send a lot of Romanian lads home well paid.

lawred2 · 17-09-2018 5:34pm

phunkadelic wrote: »

It might take time, but I am convinced that one of them will accept an offer in the next month, once they realise the slowdown has kicked in.

Few friends I know bidding on properties in that price range are all bidding against others.

Where are these properties?

rosmoke · 17-09-2018 6:19pm

Augeo wrote: »

Corporation tax in Romania is 16%, 19% in Poland.
If corporations could get what they get done in Ireland for half the cost in Poland or Romania I don't think 3.5% and 6.5% higher corporation tax would be keeping them here.

So they either can't get their business done over there (various politics perhaps and also "Made in Romania" might not inspire confidence in some customers' countries) or it's not actually that cheap in comparison, all considered (corporation tax headline rates across Europe are less than indicative of what actually goes on anyway as we all know)

Corporation tax in Romania has been dropped to 10% since January 2018.
Romania has the fastest growing economy in EU after Ireland.
There are plenty corporations in Romania, and I'm sure they are in Poland as well.
Ireland has some advantages, lower temperatures for data centres, English speaking country, not so much corruption.
'Made in Romania' yeah, wouldn't inspire too much confidence either I guess.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 17-09-2018 6:20pm

Augeo wrote: »

Corporation tax in Romania is 16%, 19% in Poland.
If corporations could get what they get done in Ireland for half the cost in Poland or Romania I don't think 3.5% and 6.5% higher corporation tax would be keeping them here.

So they either can't get their business done over there (various politics perhaps and also "Made in Romania" might not inspire confidence in some customers' countries) or it's not actually that cheap in comparison, all considered (corporation tax headline rates across Europe are less than indicative of what actually goes on anyway as we all know)

500 for two weeks is extremely low for software dev in Romania - which is where we outsource. In fact it’s not much cheaper there for us than some other western countries and we are reviewing. Generally you will the best devs from these countries are working in the west anyway.

OwlsZat · 17-09-2018 6:31pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

500 for two weeks is extremely low for software dev in Romania - which is where we outsource. In fact it’s not much cheaper there for us than some other western countries and we are reviewing. Generally you will the best devs from these countries are working in the west anyway.

Ukraine is wall to wall cheap devs.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 17-09-2018 6:36pm

OwlsZat wrote: »

Ukraine is wall to wall cheap devs.

Might be but they can’t migrate west so easily.

rosmoke · 17-09-2018 6:58pm

KevinCavan wrote: »

Thanks for your post. I hate the bullsh1t here that a builder can’t make a profit unless he sells for €500,000 type nonsense. That a builder can’t get out of bed for less than €1000 per day. I heard on the radio before that there would be no housing crisis if we were able to ship them over from abroad. Don’t think Spanish builders are spouting the same crap.

I personally know X who just moved in Ireland 4 months ago and started a construction company here. In the last 2 months he made 50k after taxes, only from his couch. Gets contracts and pays workers (has 17 workers now).
You might think this is bull****, but this has been confirmed by the person who does his taxes as well.

Y is a 22 years old lad, has a construction company. Take home, after salaries taxes etc, made 500k for the 1st half of this year.

I'm in IT sector, I think I chose the wrong field.

This is where all our money goes when we buy a house, not in quality, but in someone else's pockets.

Just another reason why I think houses are overpriced and they don't reflect the quality ..
Of course there wouldn't be a crisis if we could ship them over, you could buy a modular house from Austria for 50-80k euro, and it would definitely be BER A. But are we allowed to? No ...
Instead we have people looking at living on a boat, campervans, 3 hours commutes, temporary log houses (you're allowed to have one on your land as long as your neighbour doesn't complain).

What am I talking about .. I live in Dublin 24 and it takes me 1h30min to get to city centre. So 3 hours commute .. think I need another coffee.

lawred2 · 17-09-2018 7:57pm

rosmoke wrote: »

I personally know X who just moved in Ireland 4 months ago and started a construction company here. In the last 2 months he made 50k after taxes, only from his couch. Gets contracts and pays workers (has 17 workers now).
You might think this is bull****, but this has been confirmed by the person who does his taxes as well.

Y is a 22 years old lad, has a construction company. Take home, after salaries taxes etc, made 500k for the 1st half of this year.

I'm in IT sector, I think I chose the wrong field.

This is where all our money goes when we buy a house, not in quality, but in someone else's pockets.

Just another reason why I think houses are overpriced and they don't reflect the quality ..
Of course there wouldn't be a crisis if we could ship them over, you could buy a modular house from Austria for 50-80k euro, and it would definitely be BER A. But are we allowed to? No ...
Instead we have people looking at living on a boat, campervans, 3 hours commutes, temporary log houses (you're allowed to have one on your land as long as your neighbour doesn't complain).

What am I talking about .. I live in Dublin 24 and it takes me 1h30min to get to city centre. So 3 hours commute .. think I need another coffee.

Who bankrolled him?

It's a cash intensive business. One doesn't just decide to start a construction company and et voila profit... You need serious working capital before anything starts moving.

Find all that hard to believe to be honest.

Unless it's mob money of course.

rosmoke · 17-09-2018 8:31pm

X was doing this in US as well, so had capital.
I've seen some of his invoices, and told me how much it actually costs him.
Overcharges, It's that easy.

phunkadelic · 17-09-2018 8:32pm

Simona1986 wrote: »

I think this slowdown is restricted to properties in your price range. Down closer to 400k, there's still multiple parties bidding on anything even half way liveable!

Yep, a lot more people meet the central bank salary requirements at the 400k mark

Property Market 2018

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