Munster vs Ospreys, Fri 14 Sep, 7:35pm, Eir Sports

thomond2006 · 13-09-2018 12:01pm #1

Munster:
Mike Haley; Andrew Conway, Sammy Arnold, Dan Goggin, Darren Sweetnam; Joey Carbery, Duncan Williams;
James Cronin, Rhys Marshall, Stephen Archer; Tadhg Beirne, Darren O’Shea; Peter O’Mahony (C), Chris Cloete, Arno Botha.

Replacements: Mike Sherry, Dave Kilcoyne, John Ryan, Jean Kleyn, Tommy O’Donnell, James Hart, Ian Keatley, Jaco Taute.

OSPREYS

15 James Hook
14 Tom Williams
13 Joe Thomas
12 Cory Allen
11 Luke Morgan
10 Sam Davies
9 Tom Habberfield

1 Rhodri Jones
2 Scott Baldwin
3 Tom Botha
4 Giorgi Nemsadze
5 Adam Beard
6 Olly Cracknell (Capt)
7 Morgan Morris
8 Sam Cross

REPLACEMENTS

16 Ifan Phillips
17 Nicky Smith
18 Alex Jeffries
19 James Ratti
20 Guido Volpi
21 Matthew Aubrey
22 Tiaan Thomas-Wheeler
23 Hanno Dirksen

Luke Morgan makes his Guinness PRO14 debut
Morgan Morris makes his first PRO14 start
Guido Volpi will make his Ospreys debut if he comes off the bench

The following players were unavailable for selection due to injury:

Lloyd Ashley – Shoulder
Dan Baker – Knee
Gheorghe Gajion – Hamstring
Keelan Giles – Knee
Paul James – Shoulder
Will Jones – Shoulder
Lesley Klim – Hamstring
Rob McCusker – Calf
Sam Parry – Bicep
Luke Price- Fractured tibia
Gareth Thomas – Shoulder
Scott Williams – Hamstring

Chris Cloete and Peter O'Mahony return!

thomond2006 · 13-09-2018 12:05pm

13-09-2018 12:13pm

That's a strong Munster team, they'll have too much for Ospreys. JJ completely out of the frame - feel for him to be honest but not unexpected.

Strong backrow and Beirne get's his first start. Expect a much tighter performance this week.

Buer · 13-09-2018 12:15pm

Looks like the Ospreys are trying to focus on certain games and this isn't one of them. They've rested all their big names; only 3 players remain from the side that beat the Cheetahs. Shame as this is normally a cracker of a fixture but Munster pack is far too strong for the Ospreys to handle them.

thomond2006 · 13-09-2018 12:17pm

The line reflects the lineups. Munster are 16 point favourites.

Edit: Now they're 18!

thomond2006 · 13-09-2018 12:24pm

Now it's 20. They don't wait around.

kuang1 · 13-09-2018 12:33pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

Now it's 20. They don't wait around.

Money must've flooded in.

thomond2006 · 13-09-2018 12:38pm

But it's only the Irish sides that disrespect the competition with second string lineups...

AdamD · 13-09-2018 1:17pm

Ospreys could get battered here

Boscoirl · 13-09-2018 2:44pm

AdamD wrote: »

Ospreys could get battered here

We could get to 99 phases before we turn it over on the try line :P

sydthebeat · 13-09-2018 3:11pm

munster -23 now !!!

AWJ must be having his minutes minded

thomond2006 · 13-09-2018 5:00pm

This makes three consecutive starts at number eight for Arno Botha. POM/Cloete/Stander is the obvious first choice backrow but the bench spot between TOD and Botha is up for grabs.

aloooof · 13-09-2018 5:53pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

munster -23 now !!!

AWJ must be having his minutes minded

Was -10 before the teams were announced. Some movement.

ScrubsfanChris · 13-09-2018 6:11pm

Buer wrote: »

Looks like the Ospreys are trying to focus on certain games and this isn't one of them. They've rested all their big names; only 3 players remain from the side that beat the Cheetahs. Shame as this is normally a cracker of a fixture but Munster pack is far too strong for the Ospreys to handle them.

Cracker yes but not very competitive in recent years.

2017: 36-10
2017: 23-03
2016: 33-0

Mookie Blaylock · 13-09-2018 7:55pm

Can't see this being anything but a Munster win...but a tight one...10 points at best... we're off the pace so far, players being eased back into duty and think the bookies are extracting the urine a little with their spread.

sydthebeat · 13-09-2018 8:15pm

Mookie Blaylock wrote: »

Can't see this being anything but a Munster win...but a tight one...10 points at best... we're off the pace so far, players being eased back into duty and think the bookies are extracting the urine a little with their spread.

To a man the munster forwards are better than their counterparts....

Munster should be able to choose what figure they want to win by.

I'll be shocked if its less than 20 (on a dry track)

Mookie Blaylock · 13-09-2018 8:23pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

To a man the munster forwards are better than their counterparts....

Munster should be able to choose what figure they want to win by.

I'll be shocked if its less than 20 (on a dry track)

It's not about being better, it's about game fitness levels

sydthebeat · 13-09-2018 8:31pm

Mookie Blaylock wrote: »

It's not about being better, it's about game fitness levels

Are you actually serious???

This is going to be the first start in a pro 14 game this season from practically ALL that ospreys team.....

There are two teams playing this game you know.....

yerrahbah · 13-09-2018 8:55pm

That backrow though...
No surprise to see JJ not included, Carbery needs starts and Keatley needs gametime.
Three into two doesn't go.

turnikett1 · 14-09-2018 6:53am

It's still depressing to know that if Carbery gets injured we are back to square one. The dream team of Keatley and Hanrahan. Will Johnston be getting more of a look in soon? I haven't really been following the Munster A matches. Even as the 22 we can't persist with JJ and Keatley. We know what they offer. There are no more chances to shine, their ceiling is well and truly hit.
If Carbery gets injured and Murray stays out for a few months, things start to look pretty bleak again. Sorry to be the pessimist but the key to this Munster side is health. Concerning drop off between 1st and 2nd choice in a few positions.

turnikett1 · 14-09-2018 6:53am

It's still depressing to know that if Carbery gets injured we are back to square one. The dream team of Keatley and Hanrahan. Will Johnston be getting more of a look in soon? I haven't really been following the Munster A matches. Even as the 22 we can't persist with JJ and Keatley. We know what they offer. There are no more chances to shine, their ceiling is well and truly hit.
If Carbery gets injured and Murray stays out for a few months, things start to look pretty bleak again. Sorry to be the pessimist but the key to this Munster side is health. Concerning drop off between 1st and 2nd choice in a few positions.

Mc Love · 14-09-2018 8:36am

We're back at square one partnering Joey with Duncan (the boy wonder) Williams

Buer · 14-09-2018 8:38am

Mc Love wrote: »

We're back at square one partnering Joey with Duncan (the boy wonder) Williams

He was one of your best performers last week. He's not a world beater but I'll never understand the level of sh*t he gets from fans.

He's a completely adequate Pro14 scrum half.

Cookiemunster · 14-09-2018 8:58am

Buer wrote: »

He was one of your best performers last week. He's not a world beater but I'll never understand the level of sh*t he gets from fans.

He's a completely adequate Pro14 scrum half.

You don't watch him every week. Perfectly adequate isn't good enough when you play so many games without Murray. And it looks like we'll be relying on him in the first two rounds in Europe. His previous record in big European games is pretty bad. The thought of him starting at 9 in Exeter fills me with dread.

Now saying that I wouldn't be one of those to abuse him, as I blame Munster rugby for persevering for so long with a player when it's obvious a better backup was needed to Murray for years.

The Lost Sheep · 14-09-2018 9:16am

Cookiemunster wrote: »

You don't watch him every week. Perfectly adequate isn't good enough when you play so many games without Murray. And it looks like we'll be relying on him in the first two rounds in Europe. His previous record in big European games is pretty bad. The thought of him starting at 9 in Exeter fills me with dread.

Now saying that I wouldn't be one of those to abuse him, as I blame Munster rugby for persevering for so long with a player when it's obvious a better backup was needed to Murray for years.

But Munster have had plenty of academy and other senior contracted scrum halfs and none have done enough on a regular basis to surpass him as back up to CM. That isnt Munster's fault.
He isnt good enough to start at 9 in european games but he's still showwn himself as better than others as back up for years.
He has generally done better in the last year or two than he had for years before hand.

aloooof · 14-09-2018 9:22am

Buer wrote: »

... but I'll never understand the level of sh*t he gets from fans.

He seems to attract more ire than most, alright. I reckon it's at least partly down to the position and the scrum-cap.

Buer · 14-09-2018 9:28am

Cookiemunster wrote: »

You don't watch him every week. Perfectly adequate isn't good enough when you play so many games without Murray. And it looks like we'll be relying on him in the first two rounds in Europe. His previous record in big European games is pretty bad. The thought of him starting at 9 in Exeter fills me with dread.

Now saying that I wouldn't be one of those to abuse him, as I blame Munster rugby for persevering for so long with a player when it's obvious a better backup was needed to Murray for years.

I would say I'd watch about 80% of Munster's matches so yeah, I watch him most weeks if he features. His shortcomings are clear but it still doesn't come close to the level of grief he gets. He puts in some very solid performances in the Pro14 which is the level he's expected to deliver at.

DW tends to be the automatic go to guy for criticism if things aren't going well despite the pack in front of him having been well beaten at times. Conor Murray had a pretty insipid spell for Munster towards the end of last season which was largely glossed over. If Williams had been on the field, he'd have been hung out to dry by some.

Munster cannot just magic up a replacement. They've been seeking to improve their options at 9 but Williams is the best of the rest and has done a solid enough job. Leinster are the only province with a definitively better second choice scrum half and that's due to using a NIQ spot on him as a project player. Munster had needs elsewhere and couldn't afford to do that for a sub. They've tried TOL, Stringer (who requested to leave), Hart and now Cronin.

I suspect in the next 1-2 years they will indeed use a NIQ spot on a scrum half as Conor Murray turns 30 this season and they'll look to future proof.

Cookiemunster · 14-09-2018 9:58am

Trust me, Murrays late season form was not glossed over in the circles I move in.

phog · 14-09-2018 10:14am

Where do we get a better scrumhalf than Williams? The "anyone or my granny would do better doesn't wash as we've seen no one has come close to knocking him off his perch.

Also, in a lot of the games where he has under performed its behind a losing pack with him getting poor or slow ball. We've all seen him trying to marshal guys into an attacking or receiving line but he gets the blame for slow ball - it's fairly simple a scrumhalf needs someone to pass the ball to.

I understand the annoyance at Munster but I can't accept the abuse he gets nor could I accept the booing Keatley got. It rankles with me that fans can go that low.

thomond2006 · 14-09-2018 10:39am

Williams is an average dirtracker scrum-half. In fairness Munster are trying to move on from him as he turns 33 in April and have had a number of scrum-halves in the academy that didn't make it over the last number of seasons. Given the current state of contracts (all four senior scrum-halves are out of contract while two NIEs in Botha and Taute are also), Munster will have the option of using an NIE spot on a scrum-half if necessary.

Cookiemunster · 14-09-2018 10:47am

thomond2006 wrote: »

Williams is an average dirtracker scrum-half. In fairness Munster are trying to move on from him as he turns 33 in April and have had a number of scrum-halves in the academy that didn't make it over the last number of seasons. Given the current state of contracts (all four senior scrum-halves are out of contract while two NIEs in Botha and Taute are also), Munster will have the option of using an NIE spot on a scrum-half if necessary.

Don't forget that both Kleyn and Marshall will be IQ at the start of next season too. Plenty of scope for NIQs next year (although probably not the money).

Munster vs Ospreys, Fri 14 Sep, 7:35pm, Eir Sports

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