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The Frederick St protest and reaction

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    #182
    PlaneSpeeking
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭PlaneSpeeking


    Amirani wrote: »
    1. It was less than 24 hours ago
    2. They were wearing balaclavas

    People were abused outside of work during the water protests, that's not "nothing".

    A meter installing crew by ours had all manner of abuse - and we're down the Midlands.

    I imagine in the smoke it was worse.


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    #183
    10000maniacs
    Registered Users Posts: 4,806 ✭✭✭10000maniacs


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    Paul Murphy's constituency office in Tallaght looked empty when I walked past it last week. Not a single homeless family in there from what I could see



    I wonder how the police force would behave in whatever irish communist paradise Paul would rule over if he came to power? Stasi informants in every house and a KGB re education camp in the Phoenix park no doubt

    Jeez, liberal lefties like Murphy make me want to hurl.
    Its very easy to stand on top of a mountain of delusion and squalk your own moral perfection to the whole world when other people have to pay for it. But when they have to pay for it, that's when the rubber hits the road.


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    #184
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,717 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    PlaneSpeeking wrote: »
    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    No attacks though.. attempted doxing... so nothing then.

    Yeah let's wait for the idiots to succeed eh ?

    Jesus - "full time scum defender" was never a career choice when I was a girl.
    Full time scum defender. Nice.


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    #185
    Agent Smith
    Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 21,502 Mod ✭✭✭✭Agent Smith


    Wheeliebin30 wrote: »
    I really don’t see the big deal here.

    Any other country they would have been booted out weeks ago using force.

    Time for people to start respecting the law in this country.

    7rK8QgK.gif


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    #186
    muddypaws
    Registered Users Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭muddypaws


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    muddypaws wrote: »
    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    While I completely agree that the Garda have to do their job. Which is to uphold any court order to evict them.  I find the wearing of balaclavas and the presence of private security very sinister indeed.

    I completely agree. What kind of society are we living in where upholders of law and order have to hide their identity to keep themselves and their families safe. Very sinister and the use of intimidation against people doing their job needs to be addressed properly.
    Keep their families safe... not hysterical at all.

    How do you think it may affect a child's mental health watching their parent being abused, in real time or on social media? Bullies use whatever they think will get to someone, so no, it is not hysterical to see that a young person could be affected by this. Safety isn't only a physical thing.


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    #187
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Were the private security not there to carry out a Court order and evict the protesters, with the Gardai there to ensure things were carried out legally?

    The court order was issued to the occupiers to vacate the premises. Non-compliance with that becomes a matter for the Gardaí or other state officers, not private individuals. I don't see how the Gardaí have the right or authority to farm that role out to private, unidentified, individuals and in the process facilitate breaches of the road traffic act and private security services act.


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    #188
    DChancer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 234 ✭✭DChancer


    NuMarvel wrote: »
    The court order was issued to the occupiers to vacate the premises. Non-compliance with that becomes a matter for the Gardaí or other state officers, not private individuals. I don't see how the Gardaí have the right or authority to farm that role out to private, unidentified, individuals and in the process facilitate breaches of the road traffic act and private security services act.

    Wrong.
    The Gardai only had one role to keep the peace while the owner or his/her agents reclaimed possession.


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    #189
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    NuMarvel wrote: »
    The court order was issued to the occupiers to vacate the premises. Non-compliance with that becomes a matter for the Gardaí or other state officers, not private individuals. I don't see how the Gardaí have the right or authority to farm that role out to private, unidentified, individuals and in the process facilitate breaches of the road traffic act and private security services act.

    The Gardai are not "farming" anything out.

    The Court Orders,in this instance,would have been accquired (at considerable expense) by the property Owner (Who need NOT always be a Landlord).

    Once in possession of the relevant orders,it is then the owners responsibility to seek to enforce the Court Order,usually carried out by Bailiffs,or in certain circumstances The City Sheriff.

    The presence of the Gardai is to ensure the Court Order is complied with peacefully,and in accordance with the Law.

    Had the individuals not been in breach of the Court Order,the other breaches you cite would not have occurred.

    All of that being said,this stuff tends to come in cycles,and usually featuring a familiar cast of performers....

    http://www.thejournal.ie/ireland-squat-2417129-Nov2015/


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #190
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    NuMarvel wrote: »
    The court order was issued to the occupiers to vacate the premises. Non-compliance with that becomes a matter for the Gardaí or other state officers, not private individuals. I don't see how the Gardaí have the right or authority to farm that role out to private, unidentified, individuals and in the process facilitate breaches of the road traffic act and private security services act.

    Is it not the Sherrif rather than the Gardai who execute these warrants?


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    #191
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    NuMarvel wrote: »
    The court order was issued to the occupiers to vacate the premises. Non-compliance with that becomes a matter for the Gardaí or other state officers, not private individuals. I don't see how the Gardaí have the right or authority to farm that role out to private, unidentified, individuals and in the process facilitate breaches of the road traffic act and private security services act.

    The gardai don't want to arrest people of they don't have to. The occupiers had a chance to vacate plenty of times and now with a court order stating they had to. Garda there to make sure nothing got out of hand simple as that. Unfortunately, it seems it did.


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    #192
    DEFTLEFTHAND
    Registered Users Posts: 16,500 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    Did a sitting TD really refer to members of our police force as terrorists?

    What a disgrace. Bloody stupid man.


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    #193
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,629 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    10000maniacs wrote: »
    If somebody owns a property lock stock and barrel, what is the problem?
    Lefties don't get the ownership concept.
    Everything to them is fair game if it is not nailed down.

    And righties don't seem to get the concept of having a housing and rental bubble, they'll be well able to bitch afterwards though of course


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    #194
    DEFTLEFTHAND
    Registered Users Posts: 16,500 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Is it not the Sherrif rather than the Gardai who execute these warrants?

    I presume in cases like these involving weird and potentially violent people the guards are sent with the Sheriff officials to ensure their safety in executing the order.


  • Options
    #195
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    The Gardai are not "farming" anything out.

    The Court Orders,in this instance,would have been accquired (at considerable expense) by the property Owner (Who need NOT always be a Landlord).

    Once in possession of the relevant orders,it is then the owners responsibility to seek to enforce the Court Order,usually carried out by Bailiffs,or in certain circumstances The City Sheriff.

    The presence of the Gardai is to ensure the Court Order is complied with peacefully,and in accordance with the Law.

    Had the individuals not been in breach of the Court Order,the other breaches you cite would not have occurred.

    All of that being said,this stuff tends to come in cycles,and usually featuring a familiar cast of performers....

    http://www.thejournal.ie/ireland-squat-2417129-Nov2015/
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Is it not the Sherrif rather than the Gardai who execute these warrants?

    I'd include sheriffs and bailiffs in with other state officers, as their roles have a statutory basis. Were any of the men who were enforcing the court order bailiffs or sheriffs?


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    #196
    Lux23
    Registered Users Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    This was absolutely appalling. The Gardai should not be acting as a private security force for landlords nevermind turning up wearing balaclavas. I haven't been involved in these protests at all, but I will attend one if I can.


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    #197
    RWCNT
    Registered Users Posts: 1,430 ✭✭✭RWCNT


    10000maniacs wrote: »
    Jeez, liberal lefties like Murphy make me want to hurl.
    Its very easy to stand on top of a mountain of delusion and squalk your own moral perfection to the whole world when other people have to pay for it. But when they have to pay for it, that's when the rubber hits the road.

    What do you mean? What is "it" and who has to pay for it? Are you suggesting that Paul Murphy doesn't pay any tax on his 90 odd grand salary?


  • Options
    #198
    Lux23
    Registered Users Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    10000maniacs wrote: »
    Jeez, liberal lefties like Murphy make me want to hurl.
    Its very easy to stand on top of a mountain of delusion and squalk your own moral perfection to the whole world when other people have to pay for it. But when they have to pay for it, that's when the rubber hits the road.

    So you're happy that public funding is going into private landlord's pockets rather than fund social or affordable housing? And Paul Murphy pays as much tax as you do, probably more.


  • Options
    #199
    RWCNT
    Registered Users Posts: 1,430 ✭✭✭RWCNT


    PlaneSpeeking wrote: »
    Yeah let's wait for the idiots to succeed eh ?

    Jesus - "full time scum defender" was never a career choice when I was a girl.

    Pretty good summation of your posting history on here, in fairness.


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    #200
    knipex
    Registered Users Posts: 2,018 ✭✭✭knipex


    guylikeme wrote: »
    Surprised there wasnt a thread. Maybe there's just no shock factor any more to what happens.

    Anyways..without debating who is right or wrong on this, id like to hear why Gardai wore Balacalavas. Seems a little overdone.

    I am of course coming in late to all this, fill me in if i'm missing obvious detail.

    Look on your tube, every protest has video and photographs of gardai, sheriffs etc who are then identified and their homes, families have been targeted..

    They would be fools not to protect themselves and their families.


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    #201
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,150 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Lux23 wrote: »
    This was absolutely appalling. The Gardai should not be acting as a private security force for landlords nevermind turning up wearing balaclavas. I haven't been involved in these protests at all, but I will attend one if I can.

    And there we go. In fairness it took a lot longer than I was expecting for this zinger to be posted.


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    #202
    knipex
    Registered Users Posts: 2,018 ✭✭✭knipex


    guylikeme wrote: »
    I guess that the same was thought about the tank man in China. Rosa Parks on that bus. Numerous other examples.

    Raising awareness of failed policies does achieve these things bit by bit.

    Really ???

    How many houses have they occupied now ? Do all those compare to Rosa parks or Tank man ??

    Do all the court orders they ignore make their protests even more valid ??

    Are we no longer allowed to enforce court orders ? Do court orders have no standing any more ? Can no one who illegally takes over a house be forced to leave ? What if it was your house ? Or your mothers ?


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    #203
    Wheeliebin30
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,593 ✭✭✭Wheeliebin30


    Lux23 wrote: »
    So you're happy that public funding is going into private landlord's pockets rather than fund social or affordable housing? And Paul Murphy pays as much tax as you do, probably more.

    Have you a costing for these houses you want given at discount rates to mostly spongers?

    The government built 4,000 social houses already this year, too much if you ask me.

    I’d like more of my taxes been spent on things that will benefit my kids.


  • Options
    #204
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    While I completely agree that the Garda have to do their job. Which is to uphold any court order to evict them.  I find the wearing of balaclavas and the presence of private security very sinister indeed.
    It probably feels sinister because there are cultural connotations in Ireland about the balaclava.

    This doesn't exist in other countries. It's SOP for police units where necessary to wear balaclavas to protect themselves from revenge attacks. It might looks sinister, but it does the job. The Gardai use them all the time.

    As has been mentioned, the Gardai do not carry out evictions. Their purpose was to ensure that there were no public order incidents while the eviction was happening. The landlord would have notified the Gardai that this was happening, and the Gardai would have decided if attendance was necessary. It's not standard for evictions, but they will usually provide support if the landlord requests it.
    The Gardai's duty while there is protect everyone, not just the people carrying out the eviction. Heavy-handed landlords have in the past been arrested for assault while carrying out an eviction with Garda support.

    There is no law that compels a person to expose their face in public, the hired goons are perfectly entitled to cover their face while in public and while in the property.

    The legislation covering security services, does not apply to this kind of activity. The hired goons carrying out the eviction are not required to have any training nor carry any ID.


  • Options
    #205
    knipex
    Registered Users Posts: 2,018 ✭✭✭knipex


    Lux23 wrote: »
    This was absolutely appalling. The Gardai should not be acting as a private security force for landlords nevermind turning up wearing balaclavas. I haven't been involved in these protests at all, but I will attend one if I can.

    You are either woefully ignorant of what occurred or a troll.

    If someone occupied your house, and you went to the cost of going to court and getting an eviction order woudl you not expect it to be enforced ??


  • Options
    #206
    Lux23
    Registered Users Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    Hurrache wrote: »
    And there we go. In fairness it took a lot longer than I was expecting for this zinger to be posted.

    What zinger? Ignorant f**k.



    Mod: Banned


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    #207
    Lux23
    Registered Users Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    knipex wrote: »
    You are either woefully ignorant of what occurred or a troll.

    If someone occupied your house, and you went to the cost of going to court and getting an eviction order woudl you not expect it to be enforced ??

    Oh, I thought private landlords were such victims that court orders were never enforced for them?

    F**K the landlord, and f**ck every C**t that defends them. Sick of it.


  • Options
    #208
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,717 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    riffmongous wrote: »
    10000maniacs wrote: »
    If somebody owns a property lock stock and barrel, what is the problem?
    Lefties don't get the ownership concept.
    Everything to them is fair game if it is not nailed down.

    And righties don't seem to get the concept of having a housing and rental bubble, they'll be well able to bitch afterwards though of course
    riffmongous wrote: »
    10000maniacs wrote: »
    If somebody owns a property lock stock and barrel, what is the problem?
    Lefties don't get the ownership concept.
    Everything to them is fair game if it is not nailed down.

    And righties don't seem to get the concept of having a housing and rental bubble, they'll be well able to bitch afterwards though of course
    Except when the banks, developers need to be bailed out again.. then its different. Then the state should help.


  • Options
    #209
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,717 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    seamus wrote: »
    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    While I completely agree that the Garda have to do their job. Which is to uphold any court order to evict them.  I find the wearing of balaclavas and the presence of private security very sinister indeed.
    It probably feels sinister because there are cultural connotations in Ireland about the balaclava.

    This doesn't exist in other countries. It's SOP for police units where necessary to wear balaclavas to protect themselves from revenge attacks. It might looks sinister, but it does the job. The Gardai use them all the time.

    As has been mentioned, the Gardai do not carry out evictions. Their purpose was to ensure that there were no public order incidents while the eviction was happening. The landlord would have notified the Gardai that this was happening, and the Gardai would have decided if attendance was necessary. It's not standard for evictions, but they will usually provide support if the landlord requests it.
    The Gardai's duty while there is protect everyone, not just the people carrying out the eviction. Heavy-handed landlords have in the past been arrested for assault while carrying out an eviction with Garda support.

    There is no law that compels a person to expose their face in public, the hired goons are perfectly entitled to cover their face while in public and while in the property.

    The legislation covering security services, does not apply to this kind of activity. The hired goons carrying out the eviction are not required to have any training nor carry any ID.
    You are probably right about the cultural connotation alright.  And I can see why they would need to protect themselves.
    Just feels sinister to me.


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    #210
    PlaneSpeeking
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭PlaneSpeeking


    RWCNT wrote: »
    What do you mean? What is "it" and who has to pay for it? Are you suggesting that Paul Murphy doesn't pay any tax on his 90 odd grand salary?

    90 grand for being a f**king pox. Jesus.


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    #211
    Hurrache
    Registered Users Posts: 10,150 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Lux23 wrote: »
    What zinger? Ignorant f**k.

    What rapport we have. Maybe we should take this off line and get a room?


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