DCM 2018 - Mentored Novice Thread

skyblue46 · 09-09-2018 9:16pm

Hobbyjogger wrote: »

I’m confused :pac: I did the first 13 miles of that today in about 1:48 and aiming for around the same Sunday, that’s just slightly faster than my PMP - 5:13/km. Plan to push the second half a little if I can, but hills might slow me. So yeah, PMP not HMP

Why not do the best half you can. It would give you a much better picture of what you could do the full marathon in.

ariana` · 09-09-2018 9:16pm

Week 12 - when did that happen :eek:

Plan|Monday|Tuesday|Wed|Thurs|Fri|Sat|Sun
NNH1|rest|4m easy|8m easy|5m easy|rest|12m lsr|cross
Boards|rest,cross or 3m rec|6m easy|1m w/u, 9m pace, 1m c/d|3m rec|rest,cross or 3m rec|16m lsr|3m rec

Super work this week folks. And yes i know it didn't go to plan for everyone but from reading over the posts you guys all put in serious effort with the plan and in particular the long runs this week. It's brilliant to watch the progression.

This week is a step back on the long run front for both groups but the mid-week run is still a big 8 miler for the HH group and a whopper 9m @ PMP with 1m w/u & c/d for the Boards group - this is a fairly savage session so don't underestimate it, prepare well and respect the distance, pace it sensibly and you'll come away with a really big boost to your confidence for race day!

Boards group please pay heed that Thursday's run is 3m RECOVERY and should be just that. This is slower than Easy pace, slower than LSR pace, possibly slower than you've ever run before (except of course on your usual Sunday recovery run

) and possibly not much faster than walking but it serves a purpose

For both groups remember the evenings are getting darker now too so don't forget to factor that into your planning for those long mid-week runs - you don't want to get caught out running in the dark without the appropriate equipment - torch, hi vis etc. You also don't want to have to cut your runs short but if you do get caught out in the dark please please please just call it a day and don't take any risks.

Have a great week folks

RayCun · 09-09-2018 9:21pm

Naked Lepper wrote: »

so far in training my 'PMP' has been 5:30 per km but this is purely speculation as i havent raced in more than 10k, and longest run i did was a long slow run of around 21k in just over two hours. am relatively new to running and even newer to understanding pacing etc. so my posts may be a bit disjointed, or not making much sense!
.

So do the half absolutely as fast as you can, so you have one fixed point to work from.

Hobbyjogger · 09-09-2018 9:26pm

skyblue46 wrote: »

Why not do the best half you can. It would give you a much better picture of what you could do the full marathon in.

Hadn’t thought to do that, will give it some thought! I’ve done that pace for 13 miles twice in training now so have those to fall back on if racing the hills gets the better of me.. thanks! Will think it over

smeal · 09-09-2018 11:14pm

A friend invited me down to the Ros Go Run Half Marathon in Roscommon today. Very small but extremely enjoyable race with excellent support along the way!

Verrrry hilly and I was planning on just using it as an LSR but felt good and pushed on for the last few miles. Came in at a 2:08 which I was happy with. Didn’t wanna kill myself for fear of injury at this point but at the same time wanted a bit of satisfaction at the end. Was planning on doing an extra 2 mile after it but to be honest I got chatting to a few sound strangers at the finish line and was cooled down by that point.

Went to the sauna and icebaths after for a good recovery session and did a half hour of physio stretches so hoping to get out for a nice strong recovery run tomorrow evening.

Well done everyone on the 20milers this weekend!! Not quite there myself yet but soon.....

sann · 10-09-2018 8:43am

Sorry to start off the week on a bit of a downer but i think this is possibly the day when DCM 2018 is over for me. Over the past 3 weeks i have had a kind of dull ache in my right shin below the knee. It started around the time i had a tight left ham and i was probably over compensating with the right. The last few runs it has nagged me for the first 2 or 3 k on my runs but would start to ease then and wouldnt really bother me after that. I was icing and foam rolling it most days. Absolutely no pain other than the start of the runs and even then it was not a sharp pain. I put it down to shin splints. Felt fine after 20 miler on sat but found it sore yesterday when out of saddle on the bike. Then when coming down stairs last night it was slightly sore.
I had a suspicion it might be a stress fracture but thought if i had no pain while running it was unlikely.
After talking a bit of sense in to myself last night i am going to get it checked out today.
Hoping for the best but fearing the worst.
It seems like 6 to 8 weeks recovery if it is a stress fracture so that would take care of Dcm.
If my fear is confirmed i will just have to take it on the chin. Try and see what kind of cross training i could do to try and hold some level of fitness in the meantime.
By the way. I am not looking for any medical advice.
Will update this evening when i get seen.

Huzzah! · 10-09-2018 9:12am

sann wrote: »

Sorry to start off the week on a bit of a downer but i think this is possibly the day when DCM 2018 is over for me. Over the past 3 weeks i have had a kind of dull ache in my right shin below the knee. It started around the time i had a tight left ham and i was probably over compensating with the right. The last few runs it has nagged me for the first 2 or 3 k on my runs but would start to ease then and wouldnt really bother me after that. I was icing and foam rolling it most days. Absolutely no pain other than the start of the runs and even then it was not a sharp pain. I put it down to shin splints. Felt fine after 20 miler on sat but found it sore yesterday when out of saddle on the bike. Then when coming down stairs last night it was slightly sore.
I had a suspicion it might be a stress fracture but thought if i had no pain while running it was unlikely.
After talking a bit of sense in to myself last night i am going to get it checked out today.
Hoping for the best but fearing the worst.
It seems like 6 to 8 weeks recovery if it is a stress fracture so that would take care of Dcm.
If my fear is confirmed i will just have to take it on the chin. Try and see what kind of cross training i could do to try and hold some level of fitness in the meantime.
By the way. I am not looking for any medical advice.
Will update this evening when i get seen.

It could be anything and fingers crossed it's something fixable. Good luck today.

incentsitive · 10-09-2018 9:39am

sann wrote: »

Sorry to start off the week on a bit of a downer but i think this is possibly the day when DCM 2018 is over for me. Over the past 3 weeks i have had a kind of dull ache in my right shin below the knee. It started around the time i had a tight left ham and i was probably over compensating with the right. The last few runs it has nagged me for the first 2 or 3 k on my runs but would start to ease then and wouldnt really bother me after that. I was icing and foam rolling it most days. Absolutely no pain other than the start of the runs and even then it was not a sharp pain. I put it down to shin splints. Felt fine after 20 miler on sat but found it sore yesterday when out of saddle on the bike. Then when coming down stairs last night it was slightly sore.
I had a suspicion it might be a stress fracture but thought if i had no pain while running it was unlikely.
After talking a bit of sense in to myself last night i am going to get it checked out today.
Hoping for the best but fearing the worst.
It seems like 6 to 8 weeks recovery if it is a stress fracture so that would take care of Dcm.
If my fear is confirmed i will just have to take it on the chin. Try and see what kind of cross training i could do to try and hold some level of fitness in the meantime.
By the way. I am not looking for any medical advice.
Will update this evening when i get seen.

Good luck with that, don't give up on it just yet. I had a fairly similar pain just below my/on knee (admittedly, before I started working towards DCM) and a physio sorted me out in a few weeks with some physio work and a few exercises (excruciating, but did the trick).

If you are in Dublin and want a physio recommendation just PM me.

sann · 10-09-2018 9:45am

incentsitive wrote: »

sann wrote: »

Sorry to start off the week on a bit of a downer but i think this is possibly the day when DCM 2018 is over for me. Over the past 3 weeks i have had a kind of dull ache in my right shin below the knee. It started around the time i had a tight left ham and i was probably over compensating with the right. The last few runs it has nagged me for the first 2 or 3 k on my runs but would start to ease then and wouldnt really bother me after that. I was icing and foam rolling it most days. Absolutely no pain other than the start of the runs and even then it was not a sharp pain. I put it down to shin splints. Felt fine after 20 miler on sat but found it sore yesterday when out of saddle on the bike. Then when coming down stairs last night it was slightly sore.
I had a suspicion it might be a stress fracture but thought if i had no pain while running it was unlikely.
After talking a bit of sense in to myself last night i am going to get it checked out today.
Hoping for the best but fearing the worst.
It seems like 6 to 8 weeks recovery if it is a stress fracture so that would take care of Dcm.
If my fear is confirmed i will just have to take it on the chin. Try and see what kind of cross training i could do to try and hold some level of fitness in the meantime.
By the way. I am not looking for any medical advice.
Will update this evening when i get seen.

Good luck with that, don't give up on it just yet. I had a fairly similar pain just below my/on knee (admittedly, before I started working towards DCM) and a physio sorted me out in a few weeks with some physio work and a few exercises (excruciating, but did the trick).

If you are in Dublin and want a physio recommendation just PM me.

Thanks a million. I am down in Kerry so if it turns out to be something muscular related i have a guy i find good here locally. Going to swiftcare clinic to get it x-rayed today even though i have heard that a stress fracture may not show up. An Mri is sometimes needed. Fingers crossed anyway.

Comic Book Guy · 10-09-2018 10:01am

Did my 18 mile run yesterday morning and feeling a lot better about things than last weekend. As I said then I had no energy in my legs all of the week before last and that culminated in a disastrous long run attempt the Saturday before last. I woke up with a head cold on the Sunday morning so I'm really hoping that that brewing was the reason for the heavy legs before that.
I took a few days off to fully get over the cold (not being a drama queen but thought the extra rest would do me good!). Did 4-5 easy miles on both the Thursday and Friday.
Started my run just before 7am yesterday on an empty stomach (I know, I know!) apart from a pint of water but I did have a good big bowl of pasta the evening before. It was raining heavy enough about 5 mins before I set off so stuck the jacket on but it stopped as soon as I opened the front door. Started to get very warm in it afterwards so ditched it in a safe spot about 5 miles in.
I stashed a bottle of water and a gel around the 6 mile marker the evening before. First time using a gel, had a bit of a stomach cramp for about half a mile a few mins after using half of it but was sound after and didn't have any ill feeling after taking the second half 5 miles later.
Was happy enough with my pacing, majority of the miles were 4-5 seconds either side of the pace I wanted to go at. A major plus was the fact that the route I took involved running roads I wouldn't have ran on this year so I wasn't getting bored by knowing the exact point where my watch would beep at each mile marker!
Hopefully that's me back on track now. Big thanks to Skyblue46 and Ariana for their words and advice last weekend helping me get back in the game because I was seriously fed up at the time.

incentsitive · 10-09-2018 10:04am

sann wrote: »

Thanks a million. I am down in Kerry so if it turns out to be something muscular related i have a guy i find good here locally. Going to swiftcare clinic to get it x-rayed today even though i have heard that a stress fracture may not show up. An Mri is sometimes needed. Fingers crossed anyway.

Coincidentally, my physio was telling me about that very situation last week - somebody arrived in with a sore shin and it turned out she had a stress fracture.

Best of luck anyway, hopefully you'll make the starting gun regardless.

smashiner · 10-09-2018 10:27am

Monday Black and Blues for me… I will explain.

I did a 30K LSR yesterday that went well overall, until had a bad fall in the local park at 29K while probably checking my watch (are we there yet?) and ended up landing hard on my left shoulder, cutting my hands, elbow and grazing my knee and bursting a beloved water bottle! What was my first reaction……yep……STOP THE GARMIN :eek:……then checked to see if any bones were protruding from places where they shouldn’t!
Looked around to see if anyone saw me fall (morto) got up and started to run straight away, anyone watching might have thought it was an elaborate stunt!!

Shoulder is sore now, but I think that it is ok as it is my previously dislocated one (old footie injury) and it is probably just a little bit sore as a result….nurofen and ice to the rescue …….again.

Going for a sauna today (can’t swim due to sore shoulder), surely that will be safe enough to do.

The most important thing being that my Garmin is ok in case anyone was worried

Oh, and I ran up the hill at Chapelizod village (under the Lucan road motorway) and I would recommend to all Novices to take it handy from under the bridge up to the top of the hill on the day as it is a real energy sapper if you run it at full pace, your legs will thank you later in the race if you take it handy on this hill.

incentsitive · 10-09-2018 10:39am

smashiner wrote: »

Monday Black and Blues for me… I will explain.

I did a 30K LSR yesterday that went well overall, until had a bad fall in the local park at 29K while probably checking my watch (are we there yet?) and ended up landing hard on my left shoulder, cutting my hands, elbow and grazing my knee and bursting a beloved water bottle! What was my first reaction……yep……STOP THE GARMIN :eek:……then checked to see if any bones were protruding from places where they shouldn’t!
Looked around to see if anyone saw me fall (morto) got up and started to run straight away, anyone watching might have thought it was an elaborate stunt!!

Shoulder is sore now, but I think that it is ok as it my previously dislocated one (old footie injury) and it is probably just a little bit sore as a result….nurofen and ice to the rescue …….again.

Going for a sauna today (can’t swim due to sore shoulder), surely that will be safe enough to do.

The most important thing being that my Garmin is ok in case anyone was worried

Oh, and I ran up the hill at Chapelizod village (under the Lucan road motorway) and I would recommend to all Novices to take it handy from under the bridge up to the top of the hill on the day as it is a real energy sapper if you run it at full pace, your legs will thank you later in the race if you do.

Ouch. I had several reactions to your post, part of me was "that'd happen to me, don't laugh (as I am a walking Fr. Larry Duff)", part of me thought it was gas that the first reaction was "turn off the Garmin" and part of me was wishing I saw it and was ready with my Nelson Muntz "ha-ha"

smashiner · 10-09-2018 10:46am

incentsitive wrote: »

Ouch. I had several reactions to your post, part of me was "that'd happen to me, don't laugh (as I am a walking Fr. Larry Duff)", part of me thought it was gas that the first reaction was "turn off the Garmin" and part of me was wishing I saw it and was ready with my Nelson Muntz "ha-ha"

Now I know why your Boards name is INCENTSITIVE.......

Yeah, it would have be hilarious to see the accident happening .......to another person

Love Nelson Muntz too...so evil the way he laughs at other peoples pain....

incentsitive · 10-09-2018 10:51am

smashiner wrote: »

Now I know why your Boards name is INCENTSITIVE.......

Yeah, it would have be hilarious to see the accident happening .......to another person

Love Nelson Muntz too...so evil the way he laughs at other peoples pain....

Joking aside, I hope you aren't injured in any way.

aloooof · 10-09-2018 11:14am

incentsitive wrote: »

Ouch. I had several reactions to your post, part of me was "that'd happen to me, don't laugh (as I am a walking Fr. Larry Duff)", part of me thought it was gas that the first reaction was "turn off the Garmin" and part of me was wishing I saw it and was ready with my Nelson Muntz "ha-ha"

Can I just say I'm loving all the Father Ted references! I'd swear I've seen some in the Strava group as well :pac:

Fair play on the weekends LSR everyone! I'm still buzzing after the 20 miles!

Rossi7 · 10-09-2018 12:01pm

Took in some of the DCM course on my LSR on Saturday, from Dolphins Barn up to Walkinstown Roundabout. Wasn't as bad a drag as I thought it would be, but I'd say after taking in the park and Chapelizod it might be a different story come October as I reckon we could be faced with a head wind.
I see some of you mentioned hydration, personally myself I bought a running back pack from the Asics outlets a few weeks ago and it worked a treat on it's first outing. I had 4 kids sizes bottles with half a High 5 caffeine tablet in each and two gels and only needed the 3 bottles. I had those Cliff Blocks, but I pretty much used two of them over the 20 miles purely to keep the hunger at bay.
Over all the run itself could not of gone any better, disappointed its only just the 16 miles this week ;)

smashiner · 10-09-2018 1:01pm

Last post for the day:

DCM Tee Shirt on the boil.....getting this one made up by 'Al's Tee Shirts'. Proper race Tee Shirts (not cotton).

Hi-vis burnt orange so that family (and paramedics) can spot me easily out on the course

I would strongly recommend it to Novices, as there is a definite benefit when people call out your name when the race gets a bit tougher.

Put your name of the Front, above the nipple line

Alorra · 10-09-2018 1:02pm

smashiner wrote: »

DCM Tee Shirt on the boil.....getting this one made up by 'Al's Tee Shirts'.

Hi-vis burnt orange so that family (and paramedics) can spot me easily out on the course

I would strongly recommend it to Novices, as there is a definite benefit when people call out your name when the race gets a bit tougher.

Put your name of the Front, above the nipple line

no blood on the name

coogy · 10-09-2018 1:22pm

Rossi7 wrote: »

Took in some of the DCM course on my LSR on Saturday, from Dolphins Barn up to Walkinstown Roundabout. Wasn't as bad a drag as I thought it would be, but I'd say after taking in the park and Chapelizod it might be a different story come October as I reckon we could be faced with a head wind.
I see some of you mentioned hydration, personally myself I bought a running back pack from the Asics outlets a few weeks ago and it worked a treat on it's first outing. I had 4 kids sizes bottles with half a High 5 caffeine tablet in each and two gels and only needed the 3 bottles. I had those Cliff Blocks, but I pretty much used two of them over the 20 miles purely to keep the hunger at bay.
Over all the run itself could not of gone any better, disappointed its only just the 16 miles this week ;)

How did it feel with the running back pack?

I'm not sure I'd be able to wear one without it feeling cumbersome.

Rossi7 · 10-09-2018 1:38pm

I thought the same Coogy, but it's a fairly decent running backpack so very little movement on your back when you've both straps buckled in. Found it easier to manage getting the fluids on board saving me a pitstop in the garages

Kellygirl · 10-09-2018 1:40pm

This thread and Strava have got so busy lately, it takes ages to catch up. Well done all of you on your long runs.

sann wrote: »

Sorry to start off the week on a bit of a downer but i think this is possibly the day when DCM 2018 is over for me. Over the past 3 weeks i have had a kind of dull ache in my right shin below the knee. It started around the time i had a tight left ham and i was probably over compensating with the right. The last few runs it has nagged me for the first 2 or 3 k on my runs but would start to ease then and wouldnt really bother me after that. I was icing and foam rolling it most days. Absolutely no pain other than the start of the runs and even then it was not a sharp pain. I put it down to shin splints. Felt fine after 20 miler on sat but found it sore yesterday when out of saddle on the bike. Then when coming down stairs last night it was slightly sore.
I had a suspicion it might be a stress fracture but thought if i had no pain while running it was unlikely.
After talking a bit of sense in to myself last night i am going to get it checked out today.
Hoping for the best but fearing the worst.
It seems like 6 to 8 weeks recovery if it is a stress fracture so that would take care of Dcm.
If my fear is confirmed i will just have to take it on the chin. Try and see what kind of cross training i could do to try and hold some level of fitness in the meantime.
By the way. I am not looking for any medical advice.
Will update this evening when i get seen.

I really hope today goes well. Fingers crossed it’s muscular. I had pain that I was convinced was a stress fracture round the time of my first marathon. I couldn’t run one step without pain so figured it couldn’t be anything else. Turned out to be a major knot in the calf muscle and took 4 physio session of pure torture to fix but I was able to keep running at the time during the treatment. Hopefully the same for you.

Alorra · 10-09-2018 1:51pm

Rossi7 wrote: »

I thought the same Coogy, but it's a fairly decent running backpack so very little movement on your back when you've both straps buckled in. Found it easier to manage getting the fluids on board saving me a pitstop in the garages

to add to the point on the backpack, i have been using a backpack the last few long runs with a bladder, approx 2 litres of water. Threw in the phone and a few bars and gels.

No particular issue with it from a movement point of view, although at stages it can be "sloshy" which is pretty annoying.

Yesterday though i had one of those mixes through it, that did both carbohydrates & electrolytes. Not tailwind that i see people talking about but think it must be something similar, SIS from Halfords.

I found that really good, was not hungry and fely relatively good, in the end i took nothing else and felt ok bringing it in home. Compared to Fridays run which was much shorter but i did not bring water or food etc, that was a complete mess.

It can be slighly heavy until you get some of the water out of it etc so its lighter nearer the end.

I think i would try and not use it under race conditions as the weight is probably not worth the gain, if I can figure out the how do i get the energy and electrolytes in without it. As having the drink was great and definitely something that i want to do/ have again.

incentsitive · 10-09-2018 2:00pm

Alorra wrote: »

I think i would try and not use it under race conditions as the weight is probably not worth the gain, if I can figure out the how do i get the energy and electrolytes in without it. As having the drink was great and definitely something that i want to do/ have again.

I have debated using things like these but my logic for not doing so is I want my LSR's to mimic the race itself, if I won't do it on the day I don't want to be doing it now.

I have added blackcurrant to the water for my runs to date and I am debating whether I should keep doing this at this stage, given I won't be able to have it on the day (I know I could ask friends etc to hold a bottle for me but the problem there is I am putting them on the hook). Having said that, I am introducing energy gels now so taking them will take the edge off the water I guess.

Rossi7 · 10-09-2018 2:00pm

I'll be lucky enough to have a few friends out and about on the course so all going well when I get to them they will have ready made up bottles for me with gels elasticated to them. Having said that, I only went through 750 mls on Saturday so might be a bit of an overkill but I guess it's better to be looking at it than for it.
To be honest, I only trialed the bag because I was dreading the run. I had my phone and bankcard in it fearing the worse case scenario :)

Mr. Guappa · 10-09-2018 3:23pm

sann wrote: »

Sorry to start off the week on a bit of a downer but i think this is possibly the day when DCM 2018 is over for me. Over the past 3 weeks i have had a kind of dull ache in my right shin below the knee. It started around the time i had a tight left ham and i was probably over compensating with the right. The last few runs it has nagged me for the first 2 or 3 k on my runs but would start to ease then and wouldnt really bother me after that. I was icing and foam rolling it most days. Absolutely no pain other than the start of the runs and even then it was not a sharp pain. I put it down to shin splints. Felt fine after 20 miler on sat but found it sore yesterday when out of saddle on the bike. Then when coming down stairs last night it was slightly sore.
I had a suspicion it might be a stress fracture but thought if i had no pain while running it was unlikely.
After talking a bit of sense in to myself last night i am going to get it checked out today.
Hoping for the best but fearing the worst.
It seems like 6 to 8 weeks recovery if it is a stress fracture so that would take care of Dcm.
If my fear is confirmed i will just have to take it on the chin. Try and see what kind of cross training i could do to try and hold some level of fitness in the meantime.
By the way. I am not looking for any medical advice.
Will update this evening when i get seen.

Fingers crossed it's nothing too serious.

sann · 10-09-2018 3:44pm

Kellygirl wrote: »

This thread and Strava have got so busy lately, it takes ages to catch up. Well done all of you on your long runs.

sann wrote: »

Sorry to start off the week on a bit of a downer but i think this is possibly the day when DCM 2018 is over for me. Over the past 3 weeks i have had a kind of dull ache in my right shin below the knee. It started around the time i had a tight left ham and i was probably over compensating with the right. The last few runs it has nagged me for the first 2 or 3 k on my runs but would start to ease then and wouldnt really bother me after that. I was icing and foam rolling it most days. Absolutely no pain other than the start of the runs and even then it was not a sharp pain. I put it down to shin splints. Felt fine after 20 miler on sat but found it sore yesterday when out of saddle on the bike. Then when coming down stairs last night it was slightly sore.
I had a suspicion it might be a stress fracture but thought if i had no pain while running it was unlikely.
After talking a bit of sense in to myself last night i am going to get it checked out today.
Hoping for the best but fearing the worst.
It seems like 6 to 8 weeks recovery if it is a stress fracture so that would take care of Dcm.
If my fear is confirmed i will just have to take it on the chin. Try and see what kind of cross training i could do to try and hold some level of fitness in the meantime.
By the way. I am not looking for any medical advice.
Will update this evening when i get seen.

I really hope today goes well. Fingers crossed it’s muscular. I had pain that I was convinced was a stress fracture round the time of my first marathon. I couldn’t run one step without pain so figured it couldn’t be anything else. Turned out to be a major knot in the calf muscle and took 4 physio session of pure torture to fix but I was able to keep running at the time during the treatment. Hopefully the same for you.

Thanks. Hope your right. Will know in the next few minutes. Waiting for x ray results.

Alorra · 10-09-2018 3:45pm

Here is hoping that it will be good news.

Kellygirl · 10-09-2018 3:46pm

sann wrote: »

Thanks. Hope your right. Will know in the next few minutes. Waiting for x ray results.

Let us know as soon as you hear. Really hope it’s good news.

Applegirl26 · 10-09-2018 3:51pm

Rossi7 wrote: »

I thought the same Coogy, but it's a fairly decent running backpack so very little movement on your back when you've both straps buckled in. Found it easier to manage getting the fluids on board saving me a pitstop in the garages

Did the water not get too warm in the backpack?
I loved gulping down an icy cold bottle of water on Saturday, only took about 30 seconds to pop in and buy it. I drank over 2 litres on my 20 miler on Saturday!! 1500 mls had electrolytes and the last 750 mls was plain water.

DCM 2018 - Mentored Novice Thread

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