Serena's meltdown

The Golden Miller · 09-09-2018 09:43PM

Johnmb wrote: »

The rules are very simply, with no grey area. Any communication from her team from the start of the warmup to the end of the match is a violation (unless there's a break in play). It doesn't matter if the player understood the communication or not.

She wasn't accused of cheating, her coach was accused of coaching her. She gets the warning because he is her responsibility. The umpire was 100% correct, as even the coach admitted.

She then threatened and verbally abused the umpire, going way beyond defending herself.

Exactly, this is basic stuff. The actions of those in the box are her responsibility, in terms of communication. Doesn't matter if she did nowt, they did. Everyone plays under the same rules, everyone knows the score in relation to this

The Golden Miller · 09-09-2018 09:44PM

The Talking Bread wrote: »

One of my favourite quotes by "Mamma Serena" as she know refers to herself

I don’t cheat! You need to make an announcement. I have never cheated in my life. I have a daughter! You owe me an apology. You owe me an apology.”

I mean, wtf!

Literally so arrogant, to the point of no self-awareness

The Golden Miller · 09-09-2018 09:45PM

At least McEnroe was entertaining, she just oozes a two faced sinister nastiness. The American media are worse, giving her the hero worship

Autecher · 09-09-2018 09:50PM

I think she should be commended for her actions yesterday. She didn't threaten to shove a tennis ball down a much smaller older woman's throat, she didn't call a fellow female 'unattractive inside', 'a loser' or say to her 'I truly despise you'. Instead all she really did is call a privileged white man a liar and a thief! That's great progress! I hope to one day have that level of restraint when I feel wronged.

The Talking Bread · 09-09-2018 09:52PM

lertsnim wrote: »

She has a daughter? Are you sure?

The response to this tweet sums the whole fiasco up!

https://twitter.com/DenisD206/status/1038576557172899840

erica74 · 09-09-2018 10:01PM

cliggg wrote: »

I think she should be commended for her actions yesterday. She didn't threaten to shove a tennis ball down a much smaller older woman's throat, she didn't call a fellow female 'unattractive inside', 'a loser' or say to her 'I truly despise you'. Instead all she really did is call a privileged white man a liar and a thief! That's great progress! I hope to one day have that level of restraint when I feel wronged.

What?

DEFTLEFTHAND · 09-09-2018 10:08PM

I wonder how long they'll give her?

12 month ban is in order.

Autecher · 09-09-2018 10:11PM

erica74 wrote: »

What?

I was referencing her previous name calling & threatening incidents which were against women. Sarcasm you know?

ridonkulous · 09-09-2018 10:13PM

erica74 wrote: »

What?

It's a reference to the other US Open umpire she accosted a few years back.

BorneTobyWilde · 09-09-2018 10:21PM

Silentcorner · 09-09-2018 10:23PM

I'm just impressed she stayed on the court, if the umpire and the referee were dope testers she'd have fled to the nearest panic room.

johnpatrick81 · 09-09-2018 10:33PM

The Talking Bread wrote: »

I would like to think so as it has been explained numerous times to him. My point is he is still using a narrative to defend Williams by claiming this ill interpreted "she needs to see the coaching (gestures) for it to be perceived as coaching"

If you are going to try to be the thread protagonist by arguing against all and sunder at least TRY and be more inventive with the logic of your argument hen people respond

And the funny thing is she did see it (after denying she had initially), and he admitted coaching her but she claimed he was giving her a thumbs up of encouragement!!

You couldn't write this!

You’re not the brightest are you? Coaches make gestures in every single game. If this is deemed coaching, and worthy of a violation, then if they enforce that across the board, every single match gets hit until they blanket ban it.

To make this stand, in literally the biggest stage, seems remarkable.

I’m using common sense. You are talking about this rule as if you’ve been adhering to it yourself all your life.

You see many tennis matches lately?

You even watch Wimbledon? If you did you’d see more examples of “coaching” in every single televised game.

So it’s a regular occurrence, yet pretty much never penalized. Until now.

Then we have the umpire “abuse”. It’s a direct follow on from the ridiculous penalty, and even still men have said way worse regularly and gotten away with it.

Picking 5 examples out of 1000s of matches only proves the point that it’s highly unusual at this level.

So Serena gets hit with these 2 highly rare penalties at once, in a grand slam final, and you want her burnt at the stake for defending herself passionately.

You haven’t an ounce of empathy or common sense.

I’ll leave it there before you get yourself another card. Wouldn’t wanna impact something that clearly means so much to you

castigating opposing opinions on internet, talking bread hobby numero uno!

The Golden Miller · 09-09-2018 10:39PM

johnpatrick81 wrote: »

You’re not the brightest are you? Coaches make gestures in every single game. If this is deemed coaching, and worthy of a violation, then if they enforce that across the board, every single match gets hit until they blanket ban it.

To make this stand, in literally the biggest stage, seems remarkable.

I’m using common sense. You are talking about this rule as if you’ve been adhering to it yourself all your life.

You see many tennis matches lately?

You even watch Wimbledon? If you did you’d see more examples of “coaching” in every single televised game.

So it’s a regular occurrence, yet pretty much never penalized. Until now.

Then we have the umpire “abuse”. It’s a direct follow on from the ridiculous penalty, and even still men have said way worse regularly and gotten away with it.

Picking 5 examples out of 1000s of matches only proves the point that it’s highly unusual at this level.

So Serena gets hit with these 2 highly rare penalties at once, in a grand slam final, and you want her burnt at the stake for defending herself passionately.

You haven’t an ounce of empathy or common sense.

I’ll leave it there before you get yourself another card. Wouldn’t wanna impact something that clearly means so much to you castigating opposing opinions on internet, talking bread hobby numero uno!

It was her continual behavior, that's just the icing on the cake. McEnroe got fcuked out of a grand slam altogether for less

The Talking Bread · 09-09-2018 10:39PM

:D:D:D

johnpatrick81 · 09-09-2018 10:45PM

The Talking Bread wrote: »

:D:D:D

Manic Moran · 09-09-2018 10:53PM

The problem, Johnpatrick, is that this umpire is known for being strict. A coaching penalty may well be rare, but Serena’s is not the first one this umpire has given. He gave one to her sister two years back, so it is quite likely she and her coach were aware of this possibility. If the umpire has a reputation for not mucking about, treat him as if he’s not going to muck about with you when you’re in front of him.

I recall on the old Dublin-Galway road, there was a town where the local Gardai and judge had a reputation for being incredibly tough on speeders. Nobody went about complaining how other Gardai in other towns might let them off for doing the same speed, the solution was to respect that the locals were tough, and toe the line accordingly.

Further, per https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/09/sports/tennis/serena-williams-umpire-carlos-ramos-us-open.html

“But privately and publicly, tennis officials — past and present — defended Ramos on Sunday. Morrissey said Mouratoglou’s coaching was so blatant it deserved to be sanctioned immediately.”

johnpatrick81 · 09-09-2018 11:04PM

You say yourself. They’re rare.

2 years ago? How many matches has he umpired since? What was the context? Was it a very low key hand gesture too or something more detailed?

It’s just scary how vitriolic some people are in here towards her. I honestly totally empathize with her and her reaction.

The rules need clarifying and sorting. At least some good may come of all this.se consistency would be nice.

boardise · 09-09-2018 11:24PM

The contrast between Osaka's grace and dignity and Williams' ill-mannered tantrums was almost painful to behold.

Manic Moran · 09-09-2018 11:26PM

The rules are clear enough. But, again, from the NYT article, it was apparently a rare form of coaching.

“I don’t think that clear coaching can be handled that way,” Morrissey said of the soft warning option. “It’s so rare to be able to be sure of it that the soft approach needs to be reserved for the majority of cases when it’s not clear.”

I agree, some consistency would be good. But a lack of consistency is no excuse when found in violation of a rule. Complaining that the other guy who passed you on the road didn’t get pulled over for speeding will not get you out of your ticket.

paleoperson · 09-09-2018 11:42PM

Manic Moran wrote: »

The rules are clear enough. But, again, from the NYT article, it was apparently a rare form of coaching.

“I don’t think that clear coaching can be handled that way,” Morrissey said of the soft warning option. “It’s so rare to be able to be sure of it that the soft approach needs to be reserved for the majority of cases when it’s not clear.”

I agree, some consistency would be good. But a lack of consistency is no excuse when found in violation of a rule. Complaining that the other guy who passed you on the road didn’t get pulled over for speeding will not get you out of your ticket.

The only way it would make some sense to suggest misogyny would be if she were playing a man. She is a woman being penalised, the other girl is a woman getting an advantage over a fair decision.

And this is all over what... a single point? Quite the joke. People have had their careers ended because of saying something out of line.

PistolsAtDawn · 10-09-2018 12:56AM

I identify as a racket

#RacketLivesMatter

mickrock · 10-09-2018 02:04AM

paleoperson wrote: »

You can't accuse someone of being a "liar" and a "thief" and not expect to face major consequences.

She needs to sit and drink Pennyroyal Tea. And eat humble pie.

vetinari · 10-09-2018 03:54AM

Wow, a lot of hate here for Serena!

Didn't think that many people were interested in tennis.
It's a relatively niche sport.

I think there was plenty of blame to go around.
Serena lost the plot but the umpire also has a responsibility to not make himself the center of attention.
Giving a warning for the coaching violation was just setting himself up for trouble.

In any sport, if you call something out of the ordinary you make yourself the center of attention.
Think of a soccer ref who decides to give a penalty for a shirt tug at a corner.
Technically correct but completely inconsistent with his peers.

10-09-2018 04:40AM

My jaw dropped when she shoe horned the gender thing into it. She went on to double down on it in a post match interview. She doesn't live in the same reality as me.

s7ryf3925pivug · 10-09-2018 04:41AM

She should be called Angria.

She was being very aggressive. Never seen a man being that aggessive in tennis. Seen a few tantrums, remember McEnroe back in the day, don't remember them being aggressive though, only complaining.

Actually tim henman whacked a tennis ball at a ball boy. That was worse. But he was disqualifiied for it, so no evidence of double standards there.

DrWu · 10-09-2018 05:51AM

About halfway through her tantrum you can see it dawning on her that she has just made a prize a-hole out of herself and the sexism card comes out. Pathetic.

When she does get her 24th title she can stick it where the sun doesn't shine. Not for the made-up sexism nonsense. For doing that to Osaka. I once saw a young musician humiliated on stage by his hero. It knocked the stuffing out of him for years. Appalling behaviour from Williams, no matter how justified people feel she was.

AllForIt · 10-09-2018 05:56AM

vetinari wrote: »

Wow, a lot of hate here for Serena!.

Yeah well it's hardly surprising, she thoroughly deserves the criticism...and the fine she got. I don't really feel anyone particularly liked her before this incident either.

Didn't think that many people were interested in tennis.
It's a relatively niche sport.

Your not the first on this thread to make that point but to all that made it I don't think one needs to know a jot about tennis to understand or be interested in what's going on here.

I think there was plenty of blame to go around.
Serena lost the plot but the umpire also has a responsibility to not make himself the center of attention.Giving a warning for the coaching violation was just setting himself up for trouble.

The umpire is supposed to give out code violations when it warrants it. The idea that he shouldn't in case he gets in trouble with the player he gives them to is more than a bit absurd.

In any sport, if you call something out of the ordinary you make yourself the center of attention.
Think of a soccer ref who decides to give a penalty for a shirt tug at a corner.
Technically correct but completely inconsistent with his peers.

Well that's just it. Williams wanted to be the center of attention even when she knew she wasn't going to win and she managed that famously. Bet she regrets it now though.

Niles Crane · 10-09-2018 05:58AM

vetinari wrote: »

Wow, a lot of hate here for Serena!

Didn't think that many people were interested in tennis.
It's a relatively niche sport.

I think there was plenty of blame to go around.
Serena lost the plot but the umpire also has a responsibility to not make himself the center of attention.
Giving a warning for the coaching violation was just setting himself up for trouble.

In any sport, if you call something out of the ordinary you make yourself the center of attention.
Think of a soccer ref who decides to give a penalty for a shirt tug at a corner.
Technically correct but completely inconsistent with his peers.

But this guy Ramos is a fairly strict umpire so he was being consistent with himself.It is not up to him to be wrong just because other umpires are too cowardly to do their job properly.

The referee in any sport has only one responsibility, to apply to rules of the sport, that is it.

He applied the rules correctly therefore he did his job properly and is blameless.

Also when the coach of Serena Williams admitted he was coaching her during the game it means that if he can admit to his guilt then she has zero defence on this matter.

paleoperson · 10-09-2018 06:21AM

Deleted User wrote: »

My jaw dropped when she shoe horned the gender thing into it. She went on to double down on it in a post match interview. She doesn't live in the same reality as me.

Imagine if John McEnroe or someone started yelling at the umpire at the top of his lungs. Maybe there's a reason for stereotypes of angry women... and yes even more so angry black women. So because there's a stereotype about it we must ignore it or something? Get a life.

It's easy to assume these individuals are highly smart, competent, super rational and sensible. However that doesn't translate very well to the real world and now and again the whole thing gets exposed, in an embarrassing way. This woman seems to have the maturity of an early 20-something SJW and for someone who is meant to be at the top of the world and such a role model of a performer and achiever, that's not a good look. I guess maybe when they're in that bubble, tennis becomes all there is, and they don't grow normally in other ways. But Sharapova is someone I always thought gives very sensible and intelligent comments in interviews.

cournioni · 10-09-2018 07:16AM

Serena is clearly a horrible bully. Well done to Osaka, no one should overshadow what she has just achieved.

Serena's meltdown

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