Go-Ahead Dublin City Routes - Updates and Discussion

dublinman1990 · 05-09-2018 01:11PM

Go Ahead were out driving one of their SGs for more route training on the 63 yesterday. I did not get the reg number of the bus clearly; but it still had the blue, teal & white livery on it as normal. I presume a small amount of buses are to be painted after the 175 launch once it goes through the consultation happens with disabled advocacy groups?

Two online updates to give you.

Go Ahead Ireland now have their own Facebook page.

Go Ahead Ireland also has a link up on Dublinbuses.com

devnull · 05-09-2018 01:14PM

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Go Ahead were out driving one of their SGs for more route training on the 63 yesterday. I did not get the reg number of the bus clearly; but it still had the blue, teal & white livery on it as normal. I presume a small amount of buses are to be painted after the 175 launch once it goes through the consultation happens with disabled advocacy groups?

There isn't going to be another consultation in relation to this, as I've said before, this has already happened, and did so in July which is why the livery has been changed and they are going back to yellow internal poles.

Go Ahead Ireland now have their own Facebook page.

Go Ahead Ireland also has a link up on Dublinbuses.com

Very old news, both have been there for a while.

GM228 · 05-09-2018 03:12PM

GA just confirmed a few minutes ago on their FB page that the 175 will start on Sunday as planned.

devnull · 05-09-2018 04:19PM

Today they have started replacing DB timetable displays at stops with shelters with TFI branded ones complete with a route map of all stops for the most common routes served by the stop. They look very nice and are a welcome step forward from the DB ones and are designed in-line with the NTA transport literature guidelines.

In addition, GA have confirmed that there will be some changes to the route that will go live in October and now routes 17A, 102, 33A, 220, 238 and 104 will transfer this month rather than the formerly mentioned list.

Stephen15 · 05-09-2018 07:26PM

devnull wrote: »

In addition, GA have confirmed that there will be some changes to the route that will go live in October and now routes 17A, 102, 33A, 220, 238 and 104 will transfer this month rather than the formerly mentioned list.

Interesting considering Go-Ahead have been out training for the last few months around Dun Laoghaire and Bray area. I'm not sure if they have doing as much training on the routes over on the north side as most of the reported sightings have been in the areas I mentioned.

Also you mention that the 238 will transfer over in October however this route wasn't originally due to transfer over until the 20th January and was in a different batch. Lastly there is a typo on the TFI website which mentions route 338 I'm not sure if they mean to say route 33b or 238.

devnull · 05-09-2018 08:10PM

Few Tweets with official confirmation

Confirmation that the final livery will have yellow front
https://twitter.com/dermotog/status/1037312566220021760

And that there will be yellow poles:
https://twitter.com/dermotog/status/1037303921209950208

MJohnston · 05-09-2018 08:29PM

Guaranteed that the livery will require another refresh in a few short years if they're sticking with that half assed one. There's just nothing coherent or cohesive about it.

Cookie_Monster · 05-09-2018 09:25PM

MJohnston wrote: »

Guaranteed that the livery will require another refresh in a few short years if they're sticking with that half assed one. There's just nothing coherent or cohesive about it.

that doesn't matter though, all must be sacrificed at the alter of pandering.
I remain amazed not every bus across all of the EU is not required to be yellow these days, how do other cities even function without this.

devnull · 05-09-2018 09:35PM

Better photo of the livery
https://www.flickr.com/photos/darren_hall/43586706005/in/photolist-29pBga8-281o6MN-29kS5Xt-29kS5St-29D7ZZ9-27YFUkf-LYfXZr-29k2WmM-2aJj4Vc-27SQWxj-Ntw5Dh-27QWDAU-NCS6Ao-29bih6R-2aAZihx-29bihhc-LQoZR4-NsQjCu-2aAZhG4-27Nz6Zw-29sLmT5-LQp162-LW7omH-29sLmHA-NqWVu3-29uVchG-27WeCG5-NtAjnG-2ap6ya9-NyBFih-2aBJQdW-27Nz6Nj-27RdeCb-29sLn83-2awFHvU-NCS5Ym-LR53XX-NCS6fy-29o3nnu-2ap8Ytq-LGVLek-2apohxT-292vDXr-NdH7bd-2ah3hX3-29fT7SN-LysgBx-NaGGkf-NaGFhd-LMrcLa

It's actually more visible than the Dublin Bus livery from the front to be honest, since it's a nice bright blue rather than a very dark one as used by DB which can be difficult to see in darker lighting.

Surely now Dublin Bus will have no problems adopting a similar front with the bright blue, with their commitments to their disabled patrons that has previously been discussed and the belief that brighter colours are better than darker ones?

AlekSmart · 05-09-2018 10:32PM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

That doesn't matter though, all must be sacrificed at the alter of pandering.
I remain amazed not every bus across all of the EU is not required to be yellow these days, how do other cities even function without this.

My amazement is reserved for the decision to Remove,at no little expense, a non-contentious,and provenly disabled friendly livery from c.1000 vehicles and replace it with a significantly less fit-for-purpose livery.

Had the NTA's preferred livery maintained,or improved upon the existing situation,then the issue would not have arisen.

It is to be noted that rather suddenly,the Authority has discovered Disability Awareness,with it's Consultation Events now having a sign language enabler present.

However,what you describe as "Pandering",is now largely recognised official policy across much of the Western World,so I guess we'll just have to live with it ?

Yer Da sells Avon · 05-09-2018 10:40PM

Up close, from the front, it actually looks fine. Much nicer than the Dublin Bus livery. Once the ad frames are filled, it'll be fine. From a design perspective, the most obnoxious thing about it is the blue 'triangle' between the white stripe and the yellow, but that'll be less noticeable once the adverts have been applied. Also, the 'teal' stripe should be either removed or replaced with the TFI shade of green because it clashes badly with the yellow.

devnull · 05-09-2018 10:44PM

AlekSmart wrote: »

My amazement is reserved for the decision to Remove,at no little expense, a non-contentious,and provenly disabled friendly livery from c.1000 vehicles and replace it with a significantly less fit-for-purpose livery.

First of all, you don't remove a livery from vehicles that never had it on. A good percentage of the Go-Ahead vehicles were delivered in the fairly bright blue colour scheme and never had the Dublin Bus Livery on them and they've only painted a couple of dozen vehicles into the Go-Ahead colours so far from the Go-Ahead Livery.

Secondly any news on Dublin Bus removing the dark and I assume to you, less fit for purpose livery that has been wore by their Airlink vehicles for the last ten years to make them more friendly to the disabled patrons that you appear to be so passionate about helping? Or is there two tiers?

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime · 05-09-2018 10:51PM

devnull wrote: »

First of all, you don't remove a livery from vehicles that never had it on. A good percentage of the Go-Ahead vehicles were delivered in the fairly bright blue colour scheme and never had the Dublin Bus Livery on them and they've only painted a couple of dozen vehicles into the Go-Ahead colours so far from the Go-Ahead Livery.

Secondly any news on Dublin Bus removing the dark and I assume to you, less fit for purpose livery that has been wore by their Airlink vehicles for the last ten years to make them more friendly to the disabled patrons that you appear to be so passionate about helping? Or is there two tiers?

Airlink is purely commercial, it is not PSO and does not receive PSO funding. It also does not accept free travel (much in the way night links didn't before)

So with that in mind, they are not the for regular service for people with disabilities and been fully commercial are not required to.

Aircoach do accept the free travel card for the airport so maybe they should be the ones to not have a dark blue livery and also change from coaches to city type buses to be able to carry wheelchair users also ? After all they are receiving the funding to carry these people

Stephen15 · 05-09-2018 11:09PM

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

Airlink is purely commercial, it is not PSO and does not receive PSO funding. It also does not accept free travel (much in the way night links didn't before)

So with that in mind, they are not the for regular service for people with disabilities and been fully commercial are not required to.

The old livery for it was yellow

devnull · 05-09-2018 11:09PM

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

Airlink is purely commercial, it is not PSO and does not receive PSO funding. It also does not accept free travel (much in the way night links didn't before)

So with that in mind, they are not the for regular service for people with disabilities and been fully commercial are not required to.

I think that is outrageous. It's almost like you are saying that disabled people should know their place and that's on the slow stage carriage service that stops everywhere and that any faster services should be marketed to people who do not have any disabilities. That would be deemed offensive by a visually impaired friend of mine.

I'm sorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding something here, But earlier in the thread it was discussed that Dublin Bus as a company placed the needs of disabled people as something that was a fundamental value to the company and they had a long history in relation to disabled people and putting them first.

Are you saying now, that this is not the case and that when Dublin Bus are able to, on a commercial route, choose between commercial interests and helping the disabled see their bus, they may deem their commercial interests as being a bigger priority. That seems to be very much at odds with the values we're told that DB have when it comes to assisting the disabled.

Aircoach do accept the free travel card for the airport so maybe they should be the ones to not have a dark blue livery and also change from coaches to city type buses to be able to carry wheelchair users also ? After all they are receiving the funding to carry these people

So what you are saying that essentially Aircoach are not operating a two tier system and are treating everyone the same on their commercial routes where Dublin Bus are seemingly, according to you, actively trying to push disabled patrons to their stage carriage services to where I assume you feel they belong and away from their commercial services?

As for why Aircoach don't use buses, I'll give you a hint. Look at the name. Also the idea that Aircoach vehicles are dark blue made me laugh, if they are dark blue, then the colours of Dublin Bus are Yellow, Dark Blue and Black and their wheelchair access policies are in line with industry norms for coach operators.

GM228 · 05-09-2018 11:10PM

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

Airlink is purely commercial, it is not PSO and does not receive PSO funding. It also does not accept free travel (much in the way night links didn't before)

So with that in mind, they are not the for regular service for people with disabilities and been fully commercial are not required to.

Aircoach do accept the free travel card for the airport so maybe they should be the ones to not have a dark blue livery and also change from coaches to city type buses to be able to carry wheelchair users also ? After all they are receiving the funding to carry these people

My god.

First of all Class I buses like the VGs used on the Airlink by law must be fully wheelchair accessible and fit for those with disabilities.

What does "they are not the for regular service for people with disabilities" mean exactly? Are people with disabilities only allowed or expected to use certain PSO services or those who accept FTP, if they can use non PSO are they expected to have lesser needs?

What has FTP or PSO got to do with recognising their disability related requirements?

I echo all that Devnull has said.

Disability activists would be up in arms reading your post.

Stephen15 · 05-09-2018 11:24PM

GM228 wrote: »

Disability activists would be up in arms reading your post.

To be fair many of the "disability activists" have only popped out of the woodwork since the new livery and bus connects was announced. They are using people with disabilities as a battering ram to object to NTA proposals such as tendering and bus connects. They are only concerned as it suits their agenda. You don't hear much of them when people park up on the pavement.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime · 05-09-2018 11:29PM

devnull wrote: »

I think that is outrageous. It's almost like you are saying that disabled people should know their place and that's on the slow stage carriage service that stops everywhere and that any faster services should be marketed to people who do not have any disabilities.

I'm sorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding something here, But earlier in the thread it was discussed that Dublin Bus as a company placed the needs of disabled people as something that was a fundamental value to the company and they had a long history in relation to disabled people and putting them first.

Are you saying now, that this is not the case and that when Dublin Bus are able to, on a commercial route, choose between commercial interests and helping the disabled see their bus, they may deem their commercial interests as being a bigger priority. That seems to be very much at odds with the values we're told that DB have when it comes to assisting the disabled.

So what you are saying that essentially Aircoach are not operating a two tier system and are treating everyone the same on their commercial routes where Dublin Bus are seemingly, according to you, actively trying to push disabled patrons to their stage carriage services to where I assume you feel they belong and away from their commercial services?

As for why Aircoach don't use buses, I'll give you a hint. Look at the name. Also the idea that Aircoach vehicles are dark blue made me laugh, if they are dark blue, then the colours of Dublin Bus are Yellow, Dark Blue and Black.

I never once said anything about where anybody belongs, people have a right to choose what they want to do but everything shouldn't be free just because.

It's very simple actually, there are services to get them to the airport from the city from 2 different companies

Dublin bus: 41, 16 , regular routes which are yellow in colours and pass friendly

Aircoach: 700, 702 , 703, that go from an array of places from the southside that they can also use.

Nobody is short for services for cheap/ free and easily accessible. If they want an express route however, or a premium service then they should pay extra for that

A perfect example of this is the Irish rail train from Dublin to cork. If you have a free pass, you are not entitled to a booked seat. You're also not entitled to enter the premium or first class carriages but they can if they PAY for it. It's a very similar thing here.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying airlink is great , the thing goes half way around the city before hitting the airport and I wouldn't use it personally but if someone WANTS to use it then of course they should pay for a service that does not receive any funding.

If they don't want to pay then great , there's other services there.

Aircoach are receiving funding and should be using wheelchair friendly buses , not coaches, (yes, regardless of name).

Mind you they use coaches but spend an awful lot of time in the city doing Dublin bus speeds anyway. (Less than 50kmh)

Their colour scheme ? It may aswell be black if we're talking about visually impaired people here, which we are, you don't agree they should have a bright front also ? Or are you just looking to argue because airlink is dark green ? Which also might aswell be black if you're visually impaired.

If the aircoach blue is fine then they wouldn't have changed the go-ahead front now would they ?

Is it possible that Dublin bus are NOT allowed to have the same livery as a PSO livery because it might be conflicting ? In the same way bus Eireann has changed some routes to expressway and red buses ? Maybe the NTA have something to do with that they don't want their NTA services confused with private ventures ?

In short anyway, nobody is pushing anybody anywhere or discriminating against anyone, and personally I think you're blowing this out of proportion, otherwise I want to see free pass holders in every first class carriage of trains getting free drinks and served food for free so we don't discriminate !

And just to point out I'm not defending Dublin bus either, if they ever do get funding for airlink then I want to see yellow buses on it too, not the green ones, but I also want to see bright coloured aircoach buses also.

It's going to have to be the same rules for everyone of they are getting paid for it, not just having cake and eating it

GM228 · 05-09-2018 11:37PM

Stephen15 wrote: »

To be fair many of the "disability activists" have only popped out of the woodwork since the new livery and bus connects was announced. They are using people with disabilities as a battering ram to object to NTA proposals such as tendering and bus connects. They are only concerned as it suits their agenda. You don't hear much of them when people park up on the pavement.

The NDA (National Disability Authority) were the ones who consulted with the NTA on the issue and they have been very vocal in various issues including cars on pavements over the last 18 or so years they are on the go.

They are a Government body by the way who are very active in promoting disability rights across a wide spectrum. They have not just come out of the woodwork for any hidden agenda.

Stephen15 · 05-09-2018 11:43PM

GM228 wrote: »

The NDA (National Disability Authority) were the ones who consulted with the NTA on the issue and they have been very vocal in various issues including cars on pavements over the last 18 or so years they are on the go.

They are a Government body by the way who are very active in promoting disability rights across a wide spectrum. They have not jusy come out of the woodwork for any hidden agenda.

I know and thats fair enough but a lot of the NBRU brigade have popped out of the woodwork on Twitter claiming to really care about people with disabilities all of a sudden.

devnull · 05-09-2018 11:48PM

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

I never once said anything about where anybody belongs.

According to some posters on here over the last little while, we've had the point made that Dublin Bus is very much engaged with the disabled community and really wants to put them first because of their values. I was merely pointing out that with Airlink, they seemingly have not stuck to the same values that according to others, they hold so dear and were passionate about.

Nobody is short for services for cheap/ free and easily accessible. If they want an express route however, or a premium service then they should pay extra for that

You will notice that I did not mention the cost at all or the price, because this is not about price and trying to drag something into it that isn't even related to the point at hand. Just because a disabled person has to pay for something, it doesn't mean that they matter less. As GM228 has pretty much suggested, the FTP is very much a red herring here.

Aircoach are receiving funding and should be using wheelchair friendly buses , not coaches. Mind you they use coaches but spend an awful lot of time in the city doing Dublin bus speeds anyway. (Less than 50kmh)

Their colour scheme ? It may aswell be black if we're talking about visually impaired people here, which we are, you don't agree they should have a bright front also ? Or are you just looking to argue because airlink is dark green ? Which also might aswell be black if you're visually impaired.

Are you seriously suggesting that we should ban coaches on any service that accepts the free travel pass or gets any subsidy? You would want people to travel for several hours on a more cramped city bus with less padded seats on a bus that might have a lower speed limit than a coach so therefore taking longer for the patrons to reach their destination?

A bus is not a coach. Even to suggest it is, is a rather ludicrous argument. It's like saying that a light rail vehicle is the same as a train when it clearly isn't. It would also mean that Bus Eireann would have to pretty much throw out over half it's fleet because the majority of it is coaches and you'd have many operators, from the man with a couple of coaches, to the bigger operators, effectively having to replace the majority, if not all of their fleets.

Their colour scheme ? It may aswell be black if we're talking about visually impaired people here, which we are, you don't agree they should have a bright front also ? Or are you just looking to argue because airlink is dark green ? Which also might aswell be black if you're visually impaired.

Hang on, I thought that the whole reason the front of the bus was to be painted yellow was because it helps visually impaired people, now you are saying that the colour doesn't matter? Starting to get a little confused here.

Aircoach have a bright and fairly distinctive livery that can be seen from a long way off. It's not dark by any stretch of the imagination, it's so distinctive that people know it as the big blue bus in Cork and other places, whereas the Airlink Livery certainly is much darker at the front.

Is it possible that Dublin bus are NOT allowed to have the same livery as a PSO livery because it might be conflicting?

Yet Dublin Bus operated a yellow livery quite happily on Airlink before they decided that they would go over to green, which was a clear step-back for the visually impaired who went from an easy to see livery to a darker one. Did any of the disabled groups make representations then? If not why did they not but they can now? Also there are other bright colours available apart from yellow that can be picked!

GM228 · 05-09-2018 11:50PM

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

I never once said anything about where anybody belongs, people have a right to choose what they want to do but everything shouldn't be free just because.

It's very simple actually, there are services to get them to the airport from the city from 2 different companies

Dublin bus: 41, 16 , regular routes which are yellow in colours and pass friendly

Aircoach: 700, 702 , 703, that go from an array of places from the southside that they can also use.

Nobody is short for services for cheap/ free and easily accessible. If they want an express route however, or a premium service then they should pay extra for that

A perfect example of this is the Irish rail train from Dublin to cork. If you have a free pass, you are not entitled to a booked seat. You're also not entitled to enter the premium or first class carriages but they can if they PAY for it. It's a very similar thing here.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying airlink is great , the thing goes half way around the city before hitting the airport and I wouldn't use it personally but if someone WANTS to use it then of course they should pay for a service that does not receive any funding.

If they don't want to pay then great , there's other services there.

But what has paying vs not paying got to do with recognition of the needs of the disabled? The issue has absolutely nothing to do with that.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

IAircoach are receiving funding and should be using wheelchair friendly buses , not coaches, (yes, regardless of name).

Mind you they use coaches but spend an awful lot of time in the city doing Dublin bus speeds anyway. (Less than 50kmh)

Most (if not all) Aircoach buses are wheelchair friendly.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

ITheir colour scheme ? It may aswell be black if we're talking about visually impaired people here, which we are, you don't agree they should have a bright front also ? Or are you just looking to argue because airlink is dark green ? Which also might aswell be black if you're visually impaired.

If the aircoach blue is fine then they wouldn't have changed the go-ahead front now would they ?

The issue is about brightness rather than a particular colour, the Aircoach colour is bright enough so hardly comparable to Airlink, but yes if the NTA livery was not good enough then yes the Airlink and Aircoach livery should change also, this is the very point, if the NTA livery was not good enough then any non bright livery should also not be good enough.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

IIs it possible that Dublin bus are NOT allowed to have the same livery as a PSO livery because it might be conflicting ? In the same way bus Eireann has changed some routes to expressway and red buses ? Maybe the NTA have something to do with that they don't want their NTA services confused with private ventures ?

The DB livery is not a PSO livery (and neither is the BE livery), they are in house designed and registered and the NTA would have zero control over their use on non PSO services.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime · 06-09-2018 12:05AM

devnull wrote: »

According to some posters on here over the last little while, we've had the point made that Dublin Bus is very much engaged with the disabled community and really wants to put them first because of their values. I was merely pointing out that with Airlink, they seemingly have not stuck to the same values that according to others, they hold so dear and were passionate about.

You will notice that I did not mention the cost at all or the price, because this is not about price and trying to drag something into it that isn't even related to the point at hand. It's about the livery and the impact on the disabled and how that transport providers provide services to said groups in society. So no need to bring a red-herring such as having to pay extra, I'm not even sure the free travel pass is relevant to a debate about liveries either.

Are you seriously suggesting that we should ban coaches on any service that accepts the free travel pass or gets any subsidy? You would want people to travel for several hours on a more cramped city bus with less padded seats on a bus that might have a lower speed limit than a coach so therefore taking longer for the patrons to reach their destination?

A bus is not a coach. Even to suggest it is, is a rather ludicrous argument. It's like saying that a light rail vehicle is the same as a train when it clearly isn't. It would also mean that Bus Eireann would have to pretty much throw out over half it's fleet because the majority of it is coaches

Hang on, I thought that the whole reason the front of the bus was to be painted yellow was because it helps visually impaired people, now you are saying that the colour doesn't matter? Starting to get a little confused here.

Aircoach have a bright and fairly distinctive livery that can be seen from a long way off. It's not dark by any stretch of the imagination, it's so distinctive that people know it as the big blue bus in Cork and other places, whereas the Airlink Livery certainly is much darker at the front.

Yet Dublin Bus operated a yellow livery quite happily on Airlink before they decided that they would go over to green, which was a clear step-back for the visually impaired who went from an easy to see livery to a darker one. Did any of the disabled groups make representations then? If not why did they not but they can now? Also there are other bright colours available apart from yellow!

Dublin bus are engaged with the disabled people to help them get around day to day. Dublin bus themselves have presented this.

The cost is a fact in this because it comes down to funding to accept the card. Quite frankly people need to forget that airlink is Dublin bus. For all arguments sake it may aswell be "Joe bloggs transport co." And the simple fact with airlink is Dublin bus can pull the plug on it overnight and nobody could do a thing about it, no group , no committee, no government , no NTA or anyone can force a company to run a private service.

Unless you want to paint every bus in the country that goes to an airport in the same colour then I'd agree, every bus in the country that goes to an airport should have a pink front for example. But you just seem to be picking on Dublin bus here, if you want it friendly for all then pick on Dublin bus but also pick on expressway, dualway airport hopper, wexford bus, aircoach, expressbus, McGinley and all the rest otherwise your arguement is pointless.

Going from killiany to Dublin airport isint exactly a 2 and a half day camal ride now is it, it's well withing the realms of a Dublin bus run. And with the speeds of less than 60kmh legally anyway there's not a lot of difference except it'll be much easier for people in wheelchairs and even people walking to embark a low floor bus, and if they get double deckers it would also increase capacity ?

The reason bus Eireann have coaches as opposed to buses is because of the high speeds and length of routes. (You won't be going from Dublin to Ballina in a city bus no matter what) that requires seatbelts , so again your arguement is invalid there

Don't forget the front of aircoach has very little blue on it thanks to their very large windscreens and also they do sometimes carry all over advertising wraps which doesn't help if your visibly impaired. They need to be more distinctive also if you also want airlink more distinctive.

Airlink changed colour a long time ago and very coincidentally so did bus eireann to expressway, i.e they separated their state funded services from their private ventures . I'm sure there's a reason for that somewhere someone will come along with, but all I'm saying is that it's no coincidence that happened !

Yes there are other colours than yellow, I quite like unlterbuses pink funny enough, they stand out incredibly well and could be something to consider in future if the NTA wanted to help further.

But again back to the earlier point , airlink, aircoach, airport hopper etc. They are all privately run and don't have to do these things if they don't want to. The VGs on airlink are privately owned by Dublin bus in the same way airport hopper own their own Iveco turas buses, nobody can force them to change their colour

It would be like either myself or yourself setting up a bus company tomorrow and someone else telling you want to be called or what colour to be, and it just doesn't work like that

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime · 06-09-2018 12:12AM

GM228 wrote: »

But what has paying vs not paying got to do with recognition of the needs of the disabled? The issue has absolutely nothing to do with that.

Most (if not all) Aircoach buses are wheelchair friendly.

The issue is about brightness rather than a particular colour, the Aircoach colour is bright enough so hardly comparable to Airlink, but yes if the NTA livery was not good enough then yes the Airlink and Aircoach livery should change also, this is the very point, if the NTA livery was not good enough then any non bright livery should also not be good enough.

The DB livery is not a PSO livery (and neither is the BE livery), they are in house designed and registered and the NTA would have zero control over their use on non PSO services.

1) paying is as per I said about being funded to accept free travel etc , it does play an important part

2) they are wheelchair friendly in the same way bus Eireann coaches are wheelchair friendly, where you have to call up in advance and they have to remove 4 seats and it's a slow process to raise you into the coach and secure you down with seatbelts.

From their website

Wheelchair Access
The majority of our coaches are fully accessible and can accommodate one wheel chair user at any one time. Wheelchair users wishing to travel must contact the Aircoach Travel Office at least 24hrs in advance of travel. Our Travel Office is open Monday to Sunday from 09:00 until 17:30 each day. For wheelchair reservations please contact us on 00 353 1 8447118 or 0044 28 9033 0655.

If you call that wheelchair friendly then what about all those people giving out about the 24hour booking with bus eireann ? It's not the same, city buses would be more suitable for the services aircoach provide which is still slow city driving.

3) this is my point, it should be a one for all in this case , agreed.

4) I was nearly sure the NTA had something to do with their recent liverys since they have logos for TFI around them etc. that bus Eireann can't just change their PSO colours tomorrow for example

GM228 · 06-09-2018 12:21AM

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

1) paying is as per I said about being funded to accept free travel etc , it does play an important part

No it does not, having free travel or not has nothing to do with a persons disability requirements, how is being paid or not to accept free travel playing an important part in that recognition?

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

12) they are wheelchair friendly in the same way bus Eireann coaches are wheelchair friendly, where you have to call up in advance and they have to remove 4 seats and it's a slow process to raise you into the coach and secure you down with seatbelts.

From their website

Wheelchair Access
The majority of our coaches are fully accessible and can accommodate one wheel chair user at any one time. Wheelchair users wishing to travel must contact the Aircoach Travel Office at least 24hrs in advance of travel. Our Travel Office is open Monday to Sunday from 09:00 until 17:30 each day. For wheelchair reservations please contact us on 00 353 1 8447118 or 0044 28 9033 0655.

If you call that wheelchair friendly then what about all those people giving out about the 24hour booking with bus eireann ? It's not the same, city buses would be more suitable for the services aircoach provide which is still slow city driving.

Yes it's slow and cumbersome, agreed.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

14) I was nearly sure the NTA had something to do with their recent liverys since they have logos for TFI around them etc. that bus Eireann can't just change their PSO colours tomorrow for example

The logos are on them because they are used for PSO, BE have actually changed their PSO colours several times over the last 15 or so years, more than DB and it has nothing to do with the NTA.

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime · 06-09-2018 12:27AM

GM228 wrote: »

No it does not, having free travel or not has nothing to do with a persons disability requirements, how is being paid or not to accept free travel playing an important part in that recognition?.

Because it's not funded. It is a private run business and nobody can tell a private business what to do.

If you set up a bus company tomorrow with only a coach with no wheelchair accessibility, because you're private, nobody can tell you that you have to have wheelchair access.

But when it's a public obligation then yes it's a different situation completely.

But in airlinks case, they could essentially, if they wanted to, change their whole airlink fleet to ford transits with no wheelchair access, and any colour they wanted.

devnull · 06-09-2018 12:31AM

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

Dublin bus are engaged with the disabled people to help them get around day to day. Dublin bus themselves have presented this.

And that has been stated by a number of people on this thread. However, if a company has such values they should be there fully and throughout the company, rather than having a two tier system where they apply them to some of their services but not to others.

The cost is a fact in this because it comes down to funding to accept the card. Quite frankly people need to forget that airlink is Dublin bus. For all arguments sake it may aswell be "Joe bloggs transport co." And the simple fact with airlink is Dublin bus can pull the plug on it overnight and nobody could do a thing about it, no group , no committee, no government , no NTA or anyone can force a company to run a private service.

More deflection rather than discussing the topic at hand. Airlink is operated by Dublin Bus FACT and nothing you can do or say will change that and the reason it is relevant is because other posters have suggested that Dublin Bus places a lot of importance on helping the disabled. I was merely pointing out that this does not appear to extend to their commercial services.

Unless you want to paint every bus in the country that goes to an airport in the same colour then I'd agree, every bus in the country that goes to an airport should have a pink front for example.

But you just seem to be picking on Dublin bus here, if you want it friendly for all then pick on Dublin bus but also pick on expressway, dualway airport hopper, wexford bus, aircoach, expressbus, McGinley and all the rest otherwise your arguement is pointless.

The point is that some people have decided that a not that dark Blue livery is bad for Go-Ahead as it is not good for the visually impaired but do not appear to have the same problem with a darker livery operated by Dublin Bus. I was merely pointing out the inconsistency in the argument.

Don't forget the front of aircoach has very little blue on it thanks to their very large windscreens and also they do sometimes carry all over advertising wraps which doesn't help if your visibly impaired. They need to be more distinctive also if you also want airlink more distinctive.

Funnily enough I'd say that an average Aircoach vehicle probably has more bright blue on it than your average Dublin Bus vehicle has yellow, because half of the front of a Dublin Bus is dark blue which is much harder to see than any colour used by Aircoach or the NTA.

Airlink changed colour a long time ago and very coincidentally so did bus eireann to expressway, i.e they separated their state funded services from their private ventures . I'm sure there's a reason for that somewhere someone will come along with, but all I'm saying is that it's no coincidence that happened!

Probably because they thought it was commercially better for them. Note that the DB livery is trademarked so nobody could stop them using it for commercial routes if that is what they really wanted to. But lets not let such a fact get in the way of a false narrative.

But again back to the earlier point , airlink, aircoach, airport hopper etc. They are all privately run and don't have to do these things if they don't want to. The VGs on airlink are privately owned by Dublin bus in the same way airport hopper own their own Iveco turas buses, nobody can force them to change their colour

The ownership has nothing to do with it. The simple fact is that on this thread it has been seemingly suggested that DB used the yellow livery as it assists the disabled and that is the result of the company placing a very high value on helping disabled patrons see their bus coming by using the yellow livery.

I was merely wondering why people felt that DB were so passionate about this yellow livery and it was a reason that it should not be lost to a fairly bright blue TFI livery. It just seemed odd to me why others felt that DB would perhaps back the idea that the TFI livery was too dark and put the visually impaired at a disadvantage, when DB used a darker one themselves for the last 10 years when that surely would disadvantage them too?

devnull · 06-09-2018 12:44AM

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

Because it's not funded. It is a private run business and nobody can tell a private business what to do.

But my argument was never about public vs private, funded vs non funded, all of this is deflection from what the original discussion was about which was about why a fairly light blue livery is bad for disabled people and must not be allowed and yellow must be in it, while a dark green livery that is much harder to see hasn't been a problem for 10 years.

This suggests that either the people who stated such on this thread believethat the same requirements don't apply or are not needed for potential disabled patrons using ta premium airport service, ultimately creating a two tier system within DBs portfolio of services or that there is another reason that they object to the blue livery that is brighter than the dark green one DB saw fit to use for ten years.

dfx- · 06-09-2018 11:27AM

It's worth reminding for your argument that this is entirely a GA-NTA engineered cock-up on PSO services.

If there was more time spent organising this on time with the consultation and less on blaming DB, maybe there'd not be a problem.

devnull · 06-09-2018 11:46AM

dfx- wrote: »

It's worth reminding for your argument that this is entirely a GA-NTA engineered cock-up on PSO services.

If there was more time spent organising this on time with the consultation and less on blaming DB, maybe there'd not be a problem.

I wasn't blaming Dublin Bus I was merely pointing out some things which appear to contradict what has been claimed in the thread.

I am just wondering why someone could oppose a blue livery that has not operated revenue services on the basis it is too dark and the incumbent operator uses yellow to prevent this because it is so important when said operator chooses not to on it's premium services for the last ten years.

A recent poster appeared to speculate that such service is not intended for the disabled and there are other slower services that are for them. This effectively means a two tier system if this is true unless there is some other reason that they oppose the blue livery but have no problem with the darker green livery?

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