Blue Wave - Dublin GAA sought provincial status in 2011

legendary.xix · 05-09-2018 1:00pm #1

In 2011 Dublin County Board sought “provincial status” for both funding and administration purposes as part of their new six-year strategic plan, the full details of which were announced in Croke Park in late 2011.

In a broad and somewhat bold plan – entitled Unleashing “The Blue Wave”: A Strategy for Dublin GAA 2011-2017 – the central theme is Dublin’s ever-changing demographics, which is actually described as a “time bomb”, and thus presents several unique challenges to the county board.

https://amp.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/ewan-mackenna-gaelic-football-is-dying-and-if-the-dublin-problem-isnt-tackled-it-will-soon-be-in-the-ground-37282516.html

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/dublin-to-look-for-provincial-status-via-new-strategic-plan-1.11870?mode=amp

OldMrBrennan83 · 05-09-2018 1:02pm

Knew author before clicking.

legendary.xix · 05-09-2018 1:35pm

Patww79 wrote: »

Knew author before clicking.

It backs up the theory that the GAA should fund the Railway Cup, with Dublin competing against the other 4 provinces.

Dublin then can enter 4 district county teams into the inter county championship.

dunnerc · 05-09-2018 1:47pm

legendary.xix wrote: »

It backs up the theory that the GAA should fund the Railway Cup, with Dublin competing against the other 4 provinces.

Dublin then can enter 4 district county teams into the inter county championship.

Not this rubbish again !!:rolleyes: haunting hoganstand with this as well.:rolleyes:

legendary.xix · 05-09-2018 1:49pm

dunnerc wrote: »

Not this rubbish again !!:rolleyes: haunting hoganstand with this as well.:rolleyes:

A journalist is asking these questions. It's a fair discussion. Politely contribute to the discussion or move onto the next thread.

dunnerc · 05-09-2018 2:06pm

legendary.xix wrote: »

A journalist is asking these questions. It's a fair discussion. Politely contribute to the discussion or move onto the next thread.

Its a nonsense discussion , from a bitter poster , kindly move back to hoganstand with this rubbish.

legendary.xix · 05-09-2018 2:12pm

dunnerc wrote: »

Its a nonsense discussion , from a bitter poster , kindly move back to hoganstand with this rubbish.

A number of respectable journalists are asking questions about the provincial funding.

blanch152 · 05-09-2018 3:08pm

legendary.xix wrote: »

A number of respectable journalists are asking questions about the provincial funding.

Ewan McKenna is not a respected journalist.

Neither is Colm Parkinson.

dastardly00 · 05-09-2018 3:17pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Ewan McKenna is not a respected journalist.

Why is he not a respected journalist?

blanch152 · 05-09-2018 3:33pm

dastardly00 wrote: »

Why is he not a respected journalist?

How long is a piece of string?

OldMrBrennan83 · 05-09-2018 5:45pm

legendary.xix wrote: »

It backs up the theory that the GAA should fund the Railway Cup, with Dublin competing against the other 4 provinces.

Dublin then can enter 4 district county teams into the inter county championship.

Split or join counties and you can keep the whole thing.

legendary.xix · 05-09-2018 5:48pm

Patww79 wrote: »

Split or join counties and you can keep the whole thing.

Dublin GAA will be box office in the Railway Cup. The GAA will put all their support behind it. Incentives can be offered to ensure the best players are competing for all 5 provinces.

seligehgit · 05-09-2018 6:08pm

legendary.xix wrote: »

Dublin GAA will be box office in the Railway Cup. The GAA will put all their support behind it. Incentives can be offered to ensure the best players are competing for all 5 provinces.

Mod Warning

legendary.xix please desist from posting in multiple threads re your opinion on whither Dublin should be considered a province.

Such discussion is best suited to the Changes in the GAA - super thread.

In addition please desist from the trolling or cards will be issued.

Squareball · 05-09-2018 6:13pm

This is getting really, really old.......
Ballymun Kickhams provided six players to the Dublin panel this year……Let me tell you a little story about Kickhams. In the early 1990’s the club was in a terrible state, an aging senior team, huge gaps at underage, struggling to raise money for our own pitch and club house. Although I live 3000 miles away I was losing sleep worrying over the state of the club. At rock bottom, green chutes began to appear. A team of younger lads took an interest in underage and put a huge amount of work reviving juvenile football in the area. A year later Patty Christie got involved and things took off from there. Ballymun Kickhams are not a big or rich club. They have no club bar to fund the club activities, they rely on your usual fund raising events, raffles, golf outings etc. etc. The club created a bit of a stir a few years ago when the Feile team that year went out and washed cars, packed shopping bags and collected outside the church to raise funds for a team trip to Portugal. It has happened every year since…..This was not government or GAA money, all self funded. But the hard work, focus on team and skill building helped our club provide 6 players to a team that just it’s 4^th All Ireland in a row.

Some will say (me included) that our success has led to some failure at club level, county champions in 2011 and losing All Ireland finalists in Croker in March 2012 we have failed to land a county championship since.

With a clear conscience I can say money played very little part in our success, I will actually go a step further and say that sometimes money gets in the way of such success. If Kickhams can do that why can’t Cork, Kildare and Meath do it……………or is the money getting in the way!!!!

Danjamin1 · 05-09-2018 6:20pm

Can’t believe this crap is being spouted in three separate threads. I’ve not seen one single other person agreeing with the OP on this.

legendary.xix · 05-09-2018 6:24pm

Danjamin1 wrote: »

Can’t believe this crap is being spouted in three separate threads. I’ve not seen one single other person agreeing with the OP on this.

The discussion is now in this thread only as advised by a moderator. It's a reasonable and fair discussion. Funding was sought on provincial status grounds. This brings a level of responsibility with it.

Danjamin1 · 05-09-2018 6:28pm

legendary.xix wrote: »

The discussion is now in this thread only as advised by a moderator. It's a reasonable and fair discussion. Funding was sought on provincial status grounds. This brings a level of responsibility with it.

Ok but it’s only a discussion if someone engages with the idea - which I’ve yet to see anyone do. Didn’t realise it was started as a new thread on mods advice, apologies. Just thought you were getting carried away with the idea.

The high horse brigade · 05-09-2018 6:48pm

legendary.xix wrote: »

The discussion is now in this thread only as advised by a moderator. It's a reasonable and fair discussion. Funding was sought on provincial status grounds. This brings a level of responsibility with it.

The Dubs on here put their fingers in their ears and cry "na,na,na,na" when you mention any of the unfair advantages they have or suggest changes

Fann Linn · 05-09-2018 6:50pm

The high horse brigade wrote: »

The Dubs on here put their fingers in their ears and cry "na,na,na,na" when you mention any of the unfair advantages they have or suggest changes

What unfair advantages, pray tell.

Danjamin1 · 05-09-2018 6:51pm

The high horse brigade wrote: »

The Dubs on here put their fingers in their ears and cry "na,na,na,na" when you mention any of the unfair advantages they have or suggest changes

No, everyone’s for change as long as it means improving the other counties, just not interested in dissolving or disimproving our county. None of us want to see North Dublin playing South Dublin in the All Ireland.

salmocab · 05-09-2018 6:55pm

Oh sweet Jesus this is ridiculous, why would anyone want to see this? Unless they wanted to start a discussion again on their current favorite topic of turning Dublin into a province.

salmocab · 05-09-2018 6:57pm

dastardly00 wrote: »

Why is he not a respected journalist?

Because people don’t respect his journalism

legendary.xix · 05-09-2018 6:58pm

The high horse brigade wrote: »

The Dubs on here put their fingers in their ears and cry "na,na,na,na" when you mention any of the unfair advantages they have or suggest changes

What Dublin have achieved is fantastic and should be embraced. The Railway Cup seems to be the only competition that can provide Dublin a proper platform for the level they are at.

The high horse brigade · 05-09-2018 7:11pm

Fann Linn wrote: »

What unfair advantages, pray tell.

Dublin have the funding of a province, sponsorship greater than any province, with government investment greater than any province, with the numbers of a province, playing most of their games in the national stadium. So stacked is it in their favour that the only thing that would be unbelievable was if they weren’t winning.

legendary.xix wrote: »

What Dublin have achieved is fantastic and should be embraced. The Railway Cup seems to be the only competition that can provide Dublin a proper platform for the level they are at.

No I don't agree the Railway cup os the answer, but we do need to discuss changes

Fann Linn · 05-09-2018 7:26pm

The high horse brigade wrote: »

Dublin have the funding of a province, sponsorship greater than any province, with government investment greater than any province, with the numbers of a province, playing most of their games in the national stadium. So stacked is it in their favour that the only thing that would be unbelievable was if they weren’t winning.]

Right so, lets combine Sligo/ Leitrim, Longford/Westmeath, Carlow/ Kilkenny, etc etc,, if population is a problem and dish out the finances accordingly.

Oh, and bye the way, the Leinster Council, which have 13 votes more than Dublin could mandate that Dublin play their qualifiers at either Parnell Park or at whatever other venue comes out first but for some reason they don't!

And furthermore, Dublin have no problem playing away,Tyrone twice last year, Mayo, Galway, Roscommon in Carrick the year before, Cavan, Monaghan, Kerry next year.
What more do ye want? Dublin to play with 10 men.

I look forward to Kerry and Kilkenny being split in two also.

Squareball · 05-09-2018 7:42pm

Way too many keyboard warriors looking for excuses instead of getting off their backsides and finding solutions.

DoctaDee · 05-09-2018 9:02pm

Squareball wrote: »

This is getting really, really old.......
Ballymun Kickhams provided six players to the Dublin panel this year……Let me tell you a little story about Kickhams. In the early 1990’s the club was in a terrible state, an aging senior team, huge gaps at underage, struggling to raise money for our own pitch and club house. Although I live 3000 miles away I was losing sleep worrying over the state of the club.

Don't remind me

... You went 3000 miles and I went to Isles

rpurfield · 05-09-2018 9:23pm

The downside to the earlier All Ireland is we now have three weeks extra of this rubbish between the final and the pre season competitions kicking off.

legendary.xix · 05-09-2018 9:33pm

Squareball wrote: »

Way too many keyboard warriors looking for excuses instead of getting off their backsides and finding solutions.

I've offered the Railway Cup as the solution. Providing a level of competition to embrace the standard being set by Dublin and matching the provincial status being sought.

salmocab · 05-09-2018 9:41pm

Provincial status is not being sought that’s an old out of date plan that was put forward. When would this extra competition be run? Clubs would be delighted with less access to players

Jaden · 06-09-2018 12:33pm

legendary.xix wrote: »

I've offered the Railway Cup as the solution. Providing a level of competition to embrace the standard being set by Dublin and matching the provincial status being sought.

How will Dublin playing and winning another competition solve any issue?

/me gets popcorn.

blanch152 · 06-09-2018 12:47pm

Jaden wrote: »

How will Dublin playing and winning another competition solve any issue?

/me gets popcorn.

He has given no thought to how the spectacle of four Dublin teams appearing in the All-Ireland semi-finals for ten consecutive years will help rural counties.

tritium · 06-09-2018 2:30pm

blanch152 wrote: »

He has given no thought to how the spectacle of four Dublin teams appearing in the All-Ireland semi-finals for ten consecutive years will help rural counties.

Of course not, the basis of his thread is a Ewen McKenna article. McKenna Comes across as increasingly embittered and unwilling to consider any data or statistics that don’t suit his narriative. -
Kerry are statistically more dominant: just shout “money and population”,
Dublin didn’t win much for decades with similar advantages: shout “money and population” louder,
small teams weren’t winning before this Dublin team: shout “money and population “ louder still
The genesis of this team predates the funding: go red with stress and scream “money and population” with all your might

McKennas become a parody of a journalist at this stage. The sad thing is his noise allows some vested interests to distract attention from commentators with ideas that might actually help weaker counties. Because of course those ideas might not be as good for a second block of counties just behind Dublin who really only want the status quo back

easy peasy · 06-09-2018 3:11pm

Fann Linn wrote: »

What unfair advantages, pray tell.

I can happily acknowledge the fantastic work being done in clubs in Dublin that is producing some fantastic players but my issue is with the money available to the county set up in Dublin. There is far too much of an imbalance.

I'll compare Dublin and Mayo. Both counties spent a similar amount last year preparing their senior football teams (Mayo actually slightly more). What this masks is a number of significant points:

1. Mayo have a home ground which needs to be maintained and the debt surrounding its redevelopment needs to be repaid each year. Dublin do not. You can say Parnell Park but that has not had any money invested in it this millennium.

2. Mayo had 5 trips to Croke Park in August and September last year. So five overnight stays at the second most expensive time of the year. Dublin did not have this issue.

3. Mayo raised 1.6m last year in fundraising, Dublin raised 57k. So in order to keep up with Dublin, Mayo had to get donations from the same people who already forked out to travel to Dublin 5 times in August and September.

In my view, these are some things that other counties live with and Dublin do not. Hence why they are unfair advantages. Sponsorship money should be split. End of.

blanch152 · 06-09-2018 3:15pm

easy peasy wrote: »

I can happily acknowledge the fantastic work being done in clubs in Dublin that is producing some fantastic players but my issue is with the money available to the county set up in Dublin. There is far too much of an imbalance.

I'll compare Dublin and Mayo. Both counties spent a similar amount last year preparing their senior football teams (Mayo actually slightly more). What this masks is a number of significant points:

1. Mayo have a home ground which needs to be maintained and the debt surrounding its redevelopment needs to be repaid each year. Dublin do not. You can say Parnell Park but that has not had any money invested in it this millennium.

2. Mayo had 5 trips to Croke Park in August and September last year. So five overnight stays at the second most expensive time of the year. Dublin did not have this issue.

3. Mayo raised 1.6m last year in fundraising, Dublin raised 57k. So in order to keep up with Dublin, Mayo had to get donations from the same people who already forked out to travel to Dublin 5 times in August and September.

In my view, these are some things that other counties live with and Dublin do not. Hence why they are unfair advantages. Sponsorship money should be split. End of.

Ah, you see the whole money thing through the same inter-county prism as the likes of McKenna. It is a false viewpoint.

That is not what the money is for, and that is not what the money was used for.

Dublin have more kids to provide facilities to than any other county. They need more money for that. Simple as it is all about the kids, that is where Dublin's money goes, and that is the right thing. Unlike Kerry, who spend exclusively on the best kids, hence their minor success, Dublin spread the money around as much as they can, catering as well for the weakest as the strongest kid.

What.Now · 06-09-2018 3:59pm

Dublin require more funding.

For the whole city centre (Inside the 2 canals) the only pitches available to play matches on are to the West the Phoenix Park and Island Bridge and closer to the East is Ringsend (Although outside the canals).

How many children does this leave without a pitch to kick a football on or puck around with a Sliothar? Too many.

More funding needs to be made available for the purchase of land within these areas whether it comes from the government or the GAA I don't care.

eagle eye · 06-09-2018 4:41pm

legendary.xix wrote:

I've offered the Railway Cup as the solution. Providing a level of competition to embrace the standard being set by Dublin and matching the provincial status being sought.

It wouldn't be fair to the rest of Leinster to not have Dublin in the railway cup. They are the only division 1 team in Leinster. What hope would the rest of Leinster have without them?

salmocab · 06-09-2018 4:53pm

eagle eye wrote: »

It wouldn't be fair to the rest of Leinster to not have Dublin in the railway cup. They are the only division 1 team in Leinster. What hope would the rest of Leinster have without them?

It doesn’t matter any decent I/C team would beat a put together team with limited time together no matter how good the individuals. It’s a nonsense suggestion just made to make a point about Dublin.

Coillte_Bhoy · 06-09-2018 6:05pm

Fann Linn wrote: »

The high horse brigade wrote: »

Dublin have the funding of a province, sponsorship greater than any province, with government investment greater than any province, with the numbers of a province, playing most of their games in the national stadium. So stacked is it in their favour that the only thing that would be unbelievable was if they weren’t winning.]

Right so, lets combine Sligo/ Leitrim, Longford/Westmeath, Carlow/ Kilkenny, etc etc,, if population is a problem and dish out the finances accordingly.

Oh, and bye the way, the Leinster Council, which have 13 votes more than Dublin could mandate that Dublin play their qualifiers at either Parnell Park or at whatever other venue comes out first but for some reason they don't!

And furthermore, Dublin have no problem playing away,Tyrone twice last year, Mayo, Galway, Roscommon in Carrick the year before, Cavan, Monaghan, Kerry next year.
What more do ye want? Dublin to play with 10 men.

I look forward to Kerry and Kilkenny being split in two also.

Nobody is blaming Dublin for this state of affairs but that doesnt mean that it's not an advantage. Of course it is but thats just the way it is, their gates dictate it really.

Bonniedog · 06-09-2018 6:41pm

The same counties dominate the inter county championships and leagues as have almost invariably dominated them for the entire history of the GAA: Kerry, Cork, Tipp, Dublin, Kilkenny, Galway, Mayo with honourable mentions for Wexford, Meath, Limerick, Waterford, and a glorious past for Cavan. Basically south of a line from Dublin to Westport.

Counties above have won 90% of AI hurling and football championships. Ulster counties have been slow starters because GAA was almost destroyed by Catholic Church and anti Parnell home rulers after 1891, and of course had to put up with repression within 6 counties for 80 years.

Those counties' dominance has more to do with tradition and the maintenance of high standards than anything else. I can't see that changing to be honest.

C__MC · 06-09-2018 6:48pm

When I hear people say this dominance will end what do they mean?

Yes Dublin might lose next year but for eternity and beyond they will be at Least be in semis and finals

It won’t be a barren spell like kk and Kerry.

blanch152 · 06-09-2018 6:53pm

C__MC wrote: »

When I hear people say this dominance will end what do they mean?

Yes Dublin might lose next year but for eternity and beyond they will be at Least be in semis and finals

It won’t be a barren spell like kk and Kerry.

Wait a minute, what barren spell have Kerry ever had?

They won a Munster final this year - their 80th out of 130!!!

37, All-Irelands, 22 runner-ups.

81 semi-final appearances, 30 more than the next team.

Now don't get me started on Kilkenny's barren spell!!

legendary.xix · 06-09-2018 7:10pm

blanch152 wrote: »

He has given no thought to how the spectacle of four Dublin teams appearing in the All-Ireland semi-finals for ten consecutive years will help rural counties.

I have given that thought. If the 4 district county teams are that strong, so be it.

Bonniedog · 06-09-2018 7:12pm

No-one would follow any of the four teams you propose. You are actually proposing the disbandment of Dublin at inter county level.

Be careful what you wish for.

legendary.xix · 06-09-2018 7:13pm

Jaden wrote: »

How will Dublin playing and winning another competition solve any issue?

/me gets popcorn.

They'd be winning a fair level of competition. Dublin v Ulster last Sunday for example would have been a far more even and fair contest. The best players from Tyrone, Monaghan and Donegal would have made up most of the Ulster team.

OldMrBrennan83 · 06-09-2018 7:14pm

Bonniedog wrote: »

No-one would follow any of the four teams you propose. You are actually proposing the disbandment of Dublin at inter county level.

Be careful what you wish for.

I think that's the end game a lot of people want. Split them up and then hope they disappear altogether.

legendary.xix · 06-09-2018 7:17pm

Bonniedog wrote: »

No-one would follow any of the four teams you propose. You are actually proposing the disbandment of Dublin at inter county level.

Be careful what you wish for.

I respectfully do not want Dublin disbanded. Dublin are box office and are great for the game but not at inter-county level. If a motion passed at congress for Dublin to be re-classified a province, the GAA will put their full marketing power behind the Railway Cup. They would also make sure the incentives are there to ensure that the top inter county players in the other provinces come on board.

C__MC · 06-09-2018 7:45pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Wait a minute, what barren spell have Kerry ever had?

They won a Munster final this year - their 80th out of 130!!!

37, All-Irelands, 22 runner-ups.

81 semi-final appearances, 30 more than the next team.

Now don't get me started on Kilkenny's barren spell!!

90s were barren and this decade.

salmocab · 06-09-2018 8:22pm

Nobody would have interest in this rubbish and presumably the idea is that Dublin are no longer in the All Ireland. Luckily it will never be happening and even if somehow it made it to Congress it would be laughed out as absolute horse sh1t.

blanch152 · 06-09-2018 9:18pm

C__MC wrote: »

90s were barren and this decade.

That's a load of rubbish.

An All-Ireland in each decade and an average of six Munster Champiionships per decade.

Any other Munster team would consider that their best two decades.

seligehgit · 06-09-2018 9:28pm

legendary.xix wrote: »

I respectfully do not want Dublin disbanded. Dublin are box office and are great for the game but not at inter-county level. If a motion passed at congress for Dublin to be re-classified a province, the GAA will put their full marketing power behind the Railway Cup. They would also make sure the incentives are there to ensure that the top inter county players in the other provinces come on board.

The Railway Cup is a dead duck.

A revered competition of a different era but no longer considered worthy by the provinces best players.

Same is reflected in it's place in the GAA calendar and dismal attendances.

More's the pity as it did offer some quality players from the weaker counties an opportunity to display their talents.

Post #38 pretty much sums it up for me.

It doesn’t matter any decent I/C team would beat a put together team with limited time together no matter how good the individuals. It’s a nonsense suggestion just made to make a point about Dublin.

Blue Wave - Dublin GAA sought provincial status in 2011

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