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NFL Protest Discussion

1…457910…14

Comments

  • #182
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    notobtuse wrote: »
    And the military are split on CK's protest.  I think it is wrong for him to protest the National Anthem, but he can protest all he wants.  And I can protest by not watching most NFL games and take my money elsewhere.  See... It all works.
    Just to add, I completely agree with the bolded part. Which is why the NFL have missed out on my Gamepass membership this year, for cowering to politicians looking to use their sport as a deflection from their own bad press. The same politicians who then pilloried the NFL for making this cowering concessions to them. It works, but it works both ways.


  • #183
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 34,227 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Billy86 wrote: »
    That's... let's say, odd... given you were identifying yourself as a Trump supporter earlier in the thread.

    Funny enough though, you have nothing to complain then about as some people kneeling as the anthem is played has not caused a single game to be cancelled or cut short.

    And he comments in the politics forum fairly regularly about trump issues


  • #184
    notobtuse
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Billy86 wrote: »
    notobtuse wrote: »
    Nike loses $3 Billlion US value in the first day of their stupid move... and expected to get worse.   Kapernick IS in it for the money, IMO,... and a pretty smart business decision.  He'll make more from Nike than a failing and aging QB ever would.   And some of the Nike brain-trust will packing their bags for their idiotic decision to offend a large percentage of sports fans.

    So Colin Kaepernick, then 28 years of age (you know he's younger than Kirk Cousins, right?), decided the kneel for the anthem when he was earning $14mn a year, with the masterplan that he would get blacklisted/be out of work for two full years of his prime, while giving away money to charities in the meantime, knowing full well that it would all pay off when that sweet Nike deal would come in at the end of it... pull the other one while you're down there, will you?
    No, he started to suck as a QB towards the end at SF.  He made a good business decision that luckily came his way as his skills went into the crapper.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • #185
    notobtuse
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    Billy86 wrote: »
    notobtuse wrote: »
    And the military are split on CK's protest.  I think it is wrong for him to protest the National Anthem, but he can protest all he wants.  And I can protest by not watching most NFL games and take my money elsewhere.  See... It all works.
    Just to add, I completely agree with the bolded part. Which is why the NFL have missed out on my Gamepass membership this year, for cowering to politicians looking to use their sport as a deflection from their own bad press. The same politicians who then pilloried the NFL for making this cowering concessions to them. It works, but it works both ways.
    As is your prerogative.  It all works.  I just see it hitting players, owners, the NFL, and network’s pocketbooks in a negative way the longer the protest goes on against the NA.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • #186
    TOss Sweep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭TOss Sweep


    notobtuse wrote: »
    I just see it hitting players, owners, the NFL, and network’s pocketbooks in a negative way the longer the protest goes on against the NA.

    It wont though. And it hasn't yet contrary to your belief and that of those clinging to bad facts.


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  • #187
    notobtuse
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    TOss Sweep wrote: »
    notobtuse wrote: »
    You don't seem to know how selling the Brooklyn Bridge works.  :)

    No I know who George C Parker is but you see it would have been easier to say that as part as your analogy and not leave it wide open like selling magic beans.

    Either way the MarketWatch website actually uses Charles Robinson as one of their sources but yet check the tweet I posted earlier in the thread:

    https://twitter.com/CharlesRobinson/status/1036978897299169280

    Oh right the same Charles Robinson who corrected everyone adding 2+2 and getting 5. Don't believe everything you read. Notice how no one is picking up on Adidas and Puma losing the same amount of money. Why? because it doesn't fit the Kap agenda
    Time will prove one of us right.  Mexico and the USA have a new trade agreement.  I don't think they make sneakers in Canada.  So the NAFTA excuse seems suspect.  

    Nike is in a pickle.  If they stop the CK ads it will backfire, just as starting them up did.  They put themselves in a no-win position.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • #188
    notobtuse
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    TOss Sweep wrote: »
    notobtuse wrote: »
    I just see it hitting players, owners, the NFL, and network’s pocketbooks in a negative way the longer the protest goes on against the NA.

    It wont though. And it hasn't yet contrary to your belief and that of those clinging to bad facts.
    Can I borrow that crystal ball of yours?  It will help me when I take a run across the boarder into New Jersey... as betting on sporting events is now legal in that state.  Of course, I could always make out the same by waiting a couple of days as Nike's stock is predicted to continue their slide because of the protests, and then sell when it eventually climbs back up.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • #189
    eagle eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 41,632 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Billy86 wrote:
    That's... let's say, odd... given you were identifying yourself as a Trump supporter earlier in the thread.
    Can you point out where I said I was a Trump supporter?
    I lived in the US for a few years and I was always pro-democrat. I thought Hilary Clinton was an awful candidate on so many levels but that doesn't make me a Trump fan. I was fully behind Obama getting elected and re-elected. I was disappointed by him though, a great man but too nice for his own good or for that job I suppose.
    Billy86 wrote:
    Funny enough though, you have nothing to complain then about as some people kneeling as the anthem is played has not caused a single game to be cancelled or cut short.
    Yes, it's only on here that I keep reading about it.
    I disagree with a lot of points being made here like people saying that the NFL are closing ranks on Kaepernick because he started the kneeling. Imo it's certainly because of the kneeling that he can't find a team but I think it's more to do with coaches not wanting a player who could potentially split the locker room.
    There are certainly players who are against all of this and I'm sure they've had private meetings with the owners and coaches and let them know that.
    So you have a controversial player who really isn't that good anyways. Why the hell would anybody hire him?


  • #190
    TOss Sweep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭TOss Sweep


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Can I borrow that crystal ball of yours?  It will help me when I take a run across the boarder into New Jersey... as betting on sporting events is now legal in that state.  Of course, I could always make out the same by waiting a couple of days as Nike's stock is predicted to continue their slide because of the protests, and then sell when it eventually climbs back up.

    Oh the irony and I love how you constantly explain American things to me it's hilarious. You realize I live in the US right? But hey keep looking into that Crystal ball or yours.


  • #191
    TOss Sweep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭TOss Sweep


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Time will prove one of us right.  Mexico and the USA have a new trade agreement.  I don't think they make sneakers in Canada.  So the NAFTA excuse seems suspect.  

    Nike is in a pickle.  If they stop the CK ads it will backfire, just as starting them up did.  They put themselves in a no-win position.

    I wont bother discussing this anymore with you because you want to believe everything you read over the facts. And I could go into a deeper discussion about how NAFTA is affecting it but why bother it will never change your mind as you are set in your ways.


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  • #192
    notobtuse
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    TOss Sweep wrote: »
    notobtuse wrote: »
    Can I borrow that crystal ball of yours?  It will help me when I take a run across the boarder into New Jersey... as betting on sporting events is now legal in that state.  Of course, I could always make out the same by waiting a couple of days as Nike's stock is predicted to continue their slide because of the protests, and then sell when it eventually climbs back up.

    Oh the irony and I love how you constantly explain American things to me it's hilarious. You realize I live in the US right? But hey keep looking into that Crystal ball or yours.
    Oh, just trying to explain that not everyone in the US lives their lives as if they were in the Left coasts. Some, well MOST, have a greater respect for the National Anthem.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • #193
    TOss Sweep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭TOss Sweep


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Oh, just trying to explain that not everyone in the US lives their lives as if they were in the Left coasts. Some, well MOST, have a greater respect for the National Anthem.

    What are you talking about? Its funny I have never given you my political stance its funny how you stereotype.

    Everybody I have met in the US has a great respect for the anthem regardless of how they view Kaps decision.

    To even suggest I have no respect for the anthem or even have great respect for it when you don't know me is just insulting at best and it sums you up as a person. You are no better than the muppets on the Extreme Left and Extreme Right.


  • #194
    notobtuse
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    TOss Sweep wrote: »
    notobtuse wrote: »
    Oh, just trying to explain that not everyone in the US lives their lives as if they were in the Left coasts. Some, well MOST, have a greater respect for the National Anthem.

    What are you talking about? Its funny I have never given you my political stance its funny how you stereotype.

    Everybody I have met in the US has a great respect for the anthem regardless of how they view Kaps decision.

    To even suggest I have no respect for the anthem or even have great respect for it when you don't know me is just insulting at best and it sums you up as a person. You are no better than the muppets on the Extreme Left and Extreme Right.
    Sorry, then... It was a general comment.  And when you noted "right wing nonsense" it kinda set the tone for what your political stance is.  Just sayin'

    A recent poll I saw indicated 53% percent of Americans say it’s ‘never appropriate’ to kneel during the national anthem.  In mine, and most, books… That’s a majority.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • #195
    raze_them_all_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,794 ✭✭✭raze_them_all_


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Sorry, then... When you noted "right wing nonsense" it kinda set the tone for what your political stance is. 

    A recent poll I saw indicated 53% percent of Americans say it’s ‘never appropriate’ to kneel during the national anthem.  In mine, and most, books… That’s a majority.

    Dont need the majority to become president though


  • #196
    notobtuse
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    raze_them_all_ wrote: »
    notobtuse wrote: »
    Sorry, then... When you noted "right wing nonsense" it kinda set the tone for what your political stance is. 

    A recent poll I saw indicated 53% percent of Americans say it’s ‘never appropriate’ to kneel during the national anthem.  In mine, and most, books… That’s a majority.

    Dont need the majority to become president though
    True.  A majority is not how we elect the President.  Who knows who would have been POTUS if our election was based only on a majority, as the candidates would have campaigned differently based on the rules.

    But a majority does matter with the NFL protests.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • #197
    TOss Sweep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭TOss Sweep


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Sorry, then... When you noted "right wing nonsense" it kinda set the tone for what your political stance is. 

    And there in lies the problem. You think that both Left and Right don't spew nonsense from time to time? Im not going to go into my political stance but both sides spew **** and it is ok to admit both sides are pissing vinegar at each other these days.
    A recent poll I saw indicated 53% percent of Americans say it’s ‘never appropriate’ to kneel during the national anthem.  In mine, and most, books… That’s a majority.

    You got the source?


  • #198
    notobtuse
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    TOss Sweep wrote: »
    notobtuse wrote: »
    Sorry, then... When you noted "right wing nonsense" it kinda set the tone for what your political stance is. 

    And there in lies the problem. You think that both Left and Right don't spew nonsense from time to time? Im not going to go into my political stance but both sides spew **** and it is ok to admit both sides are pissing vinegar at each other these days.
    A recent poll I saw indicated 53% percent of Americans say it’s ‘never appropriate’ to kneel during the national anthem.  In mine, and most, books… That’s a majority.

    You got the source?
    Sure there are extremes on both sides.  But far to many feel anyone right of center is on the Extreme Right.

    And sure I have a source that the majority of Americans being against kneeling during the NA as a protest (I think you will have a tough time calling the Washington Post some right wing rag).

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2018/05/23/poll-53-percent-of-americans-say-its-never-appropriate-to-kneel-during-the-national-anthem/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.f4445dc02711

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • #199
    Jolly Red Giant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,426 ✭✭✭Jolly Red Giant


    notobtuse wrote: »
    A recent poll I saw indicated 53% percent of Americans say it’s ‘never appropriate’ to kneel during the national anthem.  In mine, and most, books… That’s a majority.

    so what - the very essence of a democracy is the right to dissent - the stink about the protests is an attempt to force conformity to a certain political ideologue - it is the antithesis of democracy.


  • #200
    TOss Sweep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭TOss Sweep


    notobtuse wrote: »
    Sure there are extremes on both sides.  But far to many feel anyone right of center is on the Extreme Right.

    I wouldn't say that. Easy to spot the difference between extreme and non extreme
    And sure I have a source that the majority of Americans being against kneeling during the NA as a protest (I think you will have a tough time calling the Washington Post some right wing rag).

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2018/05/23/poll-53-percent-of-americans-say-its-never-appropriate-to-kneel-during-the-national-anthem/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.f4445dc02711

    I respect the Post but look at the number of those who said Never appropriate:

    86% of that 53% were republican.
    58% were white
    63% over 50

    Demographics are the key here.

    2018-09-04_1553.png


  • #201
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,349 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    notobtuse wrote: »
    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/nike-takes-politics-head-on-by-naming-colin-kaepernick-the-face-of-30th-anniversary-of-just-do-it-2018-09-04
    And the military are split on CK's protest.  I think it is wrong for him to protest the National Anthem, but he can protest all he wants.  And I can protest by not watching most NFL games and take my money elsewhere.  See... It all works.  

    But bottom line it is a stupid business decision on Nike's part.

    Yeah, a real 'stupid business decision on Nike's part'... :rolleyes:

    https://twitter.com/novy_williams/status/1037020151558942721


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  • #202
    eagle eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 41,632 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Foxtrol wrote:
    Yeah, a real 'stupid business decision on Nike's part'...


    It's still a stupid business decision because you have lost customers to a competitor, customers who will likely never buy Nike again.


  • #203
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 30,861 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    eagle eye wrote: »
    It's still a stupid business decision because you have lost customers to a competitor, customers who will likely never buy Nike again.

    And probably gained some. You have the breakdown to hand?

    I don't exactly think Nike are doing this for the "right" reasons, but I also largely don't care. It is a pretty bold statement as the apparel provider for the NFL to do it.

    I would still like someone to point me toward a protest that achieved progress that was popular at the time?


  • #204
    TOss Sweep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭TOss Sweep


    eagle eye wrote: »
    It's still a stupid business decision because you have lost customers to a competitor, customers who will likely never buy Nike again.


    Irony is Under Armor have already said they support anyone's decision to take a knee


    https://twitter.com/UAnews/status/911626922274246656


    Adidas already said they would sign Kap if a NFL team signed him

    “If he signs on a team, we would definitely want to sign him,” Adidas North America President Mark King said, via the Arizona Republic.

    Reebok have become irrelevant unless you are into Crossfit

    So are they going to jump ship and become hypocrites?


  • #205
    TOss Sweep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭TOss Sweep


    eagle eye wrote: »
    customers who will likely never buy Nike again.


    Yes they will. Lets face anyone who wont buy them again probably never wear their stuff anyways or their wife buys their clothes. Looking at all the morons on twitter burning and cutting up Nike stuff its always the same type of person. Faux outrage just to be heard.


  • #206
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Can you point out where I said I was a Trump supporter?
    I lived in the US for a few years and I was always pro-democrat. I thought Hilary Clinton was an awful candidate on so many levels but that doesn't make me a Trump fan. I was fully behind Obama getting elected and re-elected. I was disappointed by him though, a great man but too nice for his own good or for that job I suppose.
    I stand corrected that it wasn't on this thread - but here you are saying "I'm starting to feel like I'm actually in Trump's corner but I just cannot let these things go ("these things" seeming to refer to people calling Trump an idiot, not anything Trump has done).

    You also have various posts on Trump throughout the site, including many going on about 'fake news'. And that's fine. But us a favour and don't go doing that only to then turn around and claim you don't read any news, don't watch current affairs, have no clue what any of that is about, and have no interest in any of it. Because that doesn't ring true, to be frank.

    In this forum, it is consigned to this thread. If you don't like hearing about it and claim not to hear about it anywhere else, there is an 'unfollow' button at the top of the page.


  • #207
    Jolly Red Giant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,426 ✭✭✭Jolly Red Giant


    notobtuse wrote: »
    True.  A majority is not how we elect the President.  Who knows who would have been POTUS if our election was based only on a majority, as the candidates would have campaigned differently based on the rules.

    But a majority does matter with the NFL protests.

    A majority of Americans also reject evolution and believe the world is 6,000 years old - should we also have to reflect that nonsense?


  • #208
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,397 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Jolly Red Giant wrote: »
    A majority of Americans also reject evolution and believe the world is 6,000 years old - should we also have to reflect that nonsense?
    Care to back that up with a source?

    This article would render your claims false, putting the number of evolution deniers at 34%
    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/jan/29/evolution-gm-food-climate-change-us-survey


  • #209
    Jolly Red Giant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,426 ✭✭✭Jolly Red Giant


    TOss Sweep wrote: »
    Yes they will. Lets face anyone who wont buy them again probably never wear their stuff anyways or their wife buys their clothes. Looking at all the morons on twitter burning and cutting up Nike stuff its always the same type of person. Faux outrage just to be heard.

    If some idiots want to burn $150 dollar sneakers - then let them off - and let the rest of the idiots watch them do it on youtube.

    The Kap ad was a master stroke by Nike. Long after the stink over the protests peters out the Nike ad will still be talked about - and if you want to advertise you can't ask for better than that.

    (p.s. - I also like the idea of being on the same side as Toss for once ;) )


  • #210
    Jolly Red Giant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,426 ✭✭✭Jolly Red Giant


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Care to back that up with a source?

    This article would render your claims false, putting the number of evolution deniers at 34%
    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/jan/29/evolution-gm-food-climate-change-us-survey

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/jan/29/evolution-gm-food-climate-change-us-survey

    https://www.livescience.com/57590-why-americans-deny-science.html

    But I have to say - my favourite is this



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  • #211
    Jolly Red Giant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,426 ✭✭✭Jolly Red Giant


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Care to back that up with a source?

    This article would render your claims false, putting the number of evolution deniers at 34%
    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/jan/29/evolution-gm-food-climate-change-us-survey

    read the article - it says that 35% of Americans believe in evolution - that leaves 65% who don't (if my maths are correct)


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