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Is Brendan Howlin in trouble?

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Comments

  • #32
    DickSwiveller Returns
    Closed Accounts Posts: 752 ✭✭✭DickSwiveller Returns


    I've always liked Alan Kelly. I've no idea why. I don't like Labour and I'm not a liberal but I've always preferred him to other Labour members.


  • #33
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,385 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    DickSwiveller Returns wrote: »
    I've always liked Alan Kelly. I've no idea why. I don't like Labour and I'm not a liberal but I've always preferred him to other Labour members.




    Because he's none of these things either.
    FG seems to be his natural home


  • #34
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,228 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Because he's none of these things either.
    FG seems to be his natural home

    More ff if you ask me

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #35
    Larbre34
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,490 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Alan Kelly on Tipp FM this morning ready to offer the ultimate sacrifice and lay down his life selflessly and lead the Labour Party.......... if a vacancy arose....

    Apparently Labour is not connecting with the public and he is the man to offer new energy and vision.

    Sure.


  • #36
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    Can't link it but the Journal is carrying an article claiming that Alan Kelly has called on Howling to go. If he does and Kelly gets the gig that's the final nail in Labour's coffin. Go for it Alan.


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  • #37
    aroundthehouse
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 386 ✭✭aroundthehouse


    Alan Kelly is some dose, he would single handidly drive labour into the ground


  • #38
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,385 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    aroundthehouse wrote: »
    Alan Kelly is some dose, he would single handidly drive labour into the ground

    He's done untold damage already. Christ that Frank Underwood nonsense alone, never mind IW


  • #39
    Red_Wake
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,571 ✭✭✭Red_Wake


    Deleted User wrote: »
    aroundthehouse wrote: »
    Alan Kelly is some dose, he would single handidly drive labour into the ground

    He's done untold damage already. Christ that Frank Underwood nonsense alone, never mind IW
    I think the electorate would forget that pretty quickly.

    My concern is that he'd move Labour into more populist territory and they'd just become another collection of crackpot leftists with no intentions of ever going into Government.

    Ireland badly needs a responsible party of the Left like Labour to grow.


  • #40
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,385 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Red_Wake wrote: »
    I think the electorate would forget that pretty quickly.

    My concern is that he'd move Labour into more populist territory and they'd just become another collection of crackpot leftists with no intentions of ever going into Government.

    Ireland badly needs a responsible party of the Left like Labour to grow.




    Go into government? That's what destroyed the party in the first place


    This country destroys minority parties at election time as they blame the minority for not magically fixing all the ills of FF or FG


    Labour had the chance to lead the last opposition and be in with a huge shout for actually leading a government this time around but shat the bed


  • #41
    Red_Wake
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,571 ✭✭✭Red_Wake


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Red_Wake wrote: »
    I think the electorate would forget that pretty quickly.

    My concern is that he'd move Labour into more populist territory and they'd just become another collection of crackpot leftists with no intentions of ever going into Government.

    Ireland badly needs a responsible party of the Left like Labour to grow.




    Go into government? That's what destroyed the party in the first place


    This country destroys minority parties at election time as they blame the minority for not magically fixing all the ills of FF or FG


    Labour had the chance to lead the last opposition and be in with a huge shout for actually leading a government this time around but shat the bed
    It's always a debate for smaller parties whether it's better to go into government and get some of their agenda done[with the large risk of getting destroyed in the following election], or waiting forever in the wings in the hopes of becoming the senior partner.

    Bear in mind that no party has successfully managed the latter. I can't blame them for following the former-you can't be building for the future forever[as Arsene Wenger found out to his cost :(].


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  • #42
    nim1bdeh38l2cw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 689 ✭✭✭nim1bdeh38l2cw


    aroundthehouse wrote: »
    Alan Kelly is some dose, he would single handidly drive labour into the ground

    He's a right gowlbag alright.


  • #43
    Sad Professor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,705 ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    They way I see it, there's no reason for Labour to exist anymore. They are a centre-right liberal party. But Ireland already has a centre-right liberal party. They are called Leo's Fine Gael. What Ireland needs, and what Labour has falsely presented itself as for decades, is a genuinely centre-left social democratic party. One that is prepared to go into government - but not with right-wing parties.


  • #44
    VonZan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 320 ✭✭VonZan


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Go into government? That's what destroyed the party in the first place


    This country destroys minority parties at election time as they blame the minority for not magically fixing all the ills of FF or FG


    Labour had the chance to lead the last opposition and be in with a huge shout for actually leading a government this time around but shat the bed

    In order to get into government in this county Labour have to make major concesessions on their ideal policies as Ireland just isn't a left wing country. In order to govern or have influence they have to, largely, abandon their idealogy which is not a recipe for success.

    Labour can only become relevant again. Although Labour should be commended for at least trying unlike some other left-wing TDs. The left of Ireland is better in the hands of Laboutr than champagne socialists like Murphy and RBB.


  • #45
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,851 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Sad Professor wrote: »
    What Ireland needs, and what Labour has falsely presented itself as for decades, is a genuinely centre-left social democratic party. One that is prepared to go into government - but not with right-wing parties.

    So... with whom?

    Damned if they do, damned if they don't. If they go into government with FF or FG, they're propping up right-wing parties. If they refuse to go into government, they're watching from the sidelines as the right-wing parties divide the spoils.


  • #46
    banie01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,842 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    Whilst Labour are in trouble and in real danger of becoming irrelevant if they don't answer some hard questions on policy and the direction of the party.
    If Alan Kelly is found to be the answer to any of those questions, Labour will be reduced to a footnote.


  • #47
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    oscarBravo wrote:
    Damned if they do, damned if they don't. If they go into government with FF or FG, they're propping up right-wing parties. If they refuse to go into government, they're watching from the sidelines as the right-wing parties divide the spoils.


    Labour had an opportunity in 2011 to become the largest opposition party and let FG govern on their own. 2016 I believe would have seen a Labour dominated government. Instead the old guard of Labour saw a final opportunity of a ministerial role. I fully believe they knew they were throwing the new and younger Labour TD's under a bus driven by FG.


  • #48
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,851 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Hitman3000 wrote: »
    Labour had an opportunity in 2011 to become the largest opposition party and let FG govern on their own.
    With 76 seats?
    2016 I believe would have seen a Labour dominated government.
    With what coalition partners?
    Instead the old guard of Labour saw a final opportunity of a ministerial role. I fully believe they knew they were throwing the new and younger Labour TD's under a bus driven by FG.
    The problem with the argument that if they had done x, y would have resulted is that it is unknowable. You may believe that, but your hindsight-informed beliefs in 2018 are completely and utterly useless to someone making a decision as to whether or not to go into coalition in 2011.


  • #49
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    oscarBravo wrote:
    With what coalition partners?


    I said dominated, therefore in a position to push for more of their policies.


  • #50
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    oscarBravo wrote:
    The problem with the argument that if they had done x, y would have resulted is that it is unknowable. You may believe that, but your hindsight-informed beliefs in 2018 are completely and utterly useless to someone making a decision as to whether or not to go into coalition in 2011.


    Plenty of the labour grassroots voted against Labour going into government in 2011. As an aside what I have seen in the past when a smaller party enters government allows me to make an assumption as to what Labour could have avoided.


  • #51
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,385 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    to someone making a decision as to whether or not to go into coalition in 2011.

    I was there, that was the truth of it


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  • #52
    Edgware
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,874 ✭✭✭Edgware


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Go into government? That's what destroyed the party in the first place


    This country destroys minority parties at election time as they blame the minority for not magically fixing all the ills of FF or FG


    Labour had the chance to lead the last opposition and be in with a huge shout for actually leading a government this time around but shat the bed

    But if Labour don't go into government someone else will get the big bags of moolah.
    Why should Michael D be the only Labour person with their head in the trough. That wouldn't be fair


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