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Is Brendan Howlin in trouble?

blanch152

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/16-labour-councillors-back-brendan-howlins-leadership-after-quartet-call-for-him-to-step-down-37184076.html

When I read this article and see that Brendan Howlin has got the backing of 16 councillors after the last few days, I think to myself that he has escaped the worst as there were only four calling for this resignation. Then I check the list of councillors on the Labour Party website:

https://www.labour.ie/people/

There are 49 of them. 29 have said nothing.

Then I think about the silence from former TDs and from current TDs, and I wonder is there something more to this leadership challenge. Do any of you have any better information on what is going on?

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DickSwiveller Returns

I've always liked Alan Kelly. I've no idea why. I don't like Labour and I'm not a liberal but I've always preferred him to other Labour members.

[Deleted User]

DickSwiveller Returns wrote: »

I've always liked Alan Kelly. I've no idea why. I don't like Labour and I'm not a liberal but I've always preferred him to other Labour members.

Because he's none of these things either.
FG seems to be his natural home

Annasopra

Deleted User wrote: »

Because he's none of these things either.
FG seems to be his natural home

More ff if you ask me

Larbre34

Alan Kelly on Tipp FM this morning ready to offer the ultimate sacrifice and lay down his life selflessly and lead the Labour Party.......... if a vacancy arose....

Apparently Labour is not connecting with the public and he is the man to offer new energy and vision.

Sure.

Hitman3000

Can't link it but the Journal is carrying an article claiming that Alan Kelly has called on Howling to go. If he does and Kelly gets the gig that's the final nail in Labour's coffin. Go for it Alan.

aroundthehouse

Alan Kelly is some dose, he would single handidly drive labour into the ground

[Deleted User]

aroundthehouse wrote: »

Alan Kelly is some dose, he would single handidly drive labour into the ground

He's done untold damage already. Christ that Frank Underwood nonsense alone, never mind IW

Red_Wake

Deleted User wrote: »

aroundthehouse wrote: »

Alan Kelly is some dose, he would single handidly drive labour into the ground

He's done untold damage already. Christ that Frank Underwood nonsense alone, never mind IW

I think the electorate would forget that pretty quickly.

My concern is that he'd move Labour into more populist territory and they'd just become another collection of crackpot leftists with no intentions of ever going into Government.

Ireland badly needs a responsible party of the Left like Labour to grow.

[Deleted User]

Red_Wake wrote: »

I think the electorate would forget that pretty quickly.

My concern is that he'd move Labour into more populist territory and they'd just become another collection of crackpot leftists with no intentions of ever going into Government.

Ireland badly needs a responsible party of the Left like Labour to grow.

Go into government? That's what destroyed the party in the first place

This country destroys minority parties at election time as they blame the minority for not magically fixing all the ills of FF or FG

Labour had the chance to lead the last opposition and be in with a huge shout for actually leading a government this time around but shat the bed

Red_Wake

Deleted User wrote: »

Red_Wake wrote: »

I think the electorate would forget that pretty quickly.

My concern is that he'd move Labour into more populist territory and they'd just become another collection of crackpot leftists with no intentions of ever going into Government.

Ireland badly needs a responsible party of the Left like Labour to grow.

Go into government? That's what destroyed the party in the first place

This country destroys minority parties at election time as they blame the minority for not magically fixing all the ills of FF or FG

Labour had the chance to lead the last opposition and be in with a huge shout for actually leading a government this time around but shat the bed

It's always a debate for smaller parties whether it's better to go into government and get some of their agenda done[with the large risk of getting destroyed in the following election], or waiting forever in the wings in the hopes of becoming the senior partner.

Bear in mind that no party has successfully managed the latter. I can't blame them for following the former-you can't be building for the future forever[as Arsene Wenger found out to his cost

nim1bdeh38l2cw

aroundthehouse wrote: »

Alan Kelly is some dose, he would single handidly drive labour into the ground

He's a right gowlbag alright.

Sad Professor

They way I see it, there's no reason for Labour to exist anymore. They are a centre-right liberal party. But Ireland already has a centre-right liberal party. They are called Leo's Fine Gael. What Ireland needs, and what Labour has falsely presented itself as for decades, is a genuinely centre-left social democratic party. One that is prepared to go into government - but not with right-wing parties.

VonZan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Go into government? That's what destroyed the party in the first place

This country destroys minority parties at election time as they blame the minority for not magically fixing all the ills of FF or FG

Labour had the chance to lead the last opposition and be in with a huge shout for actually leading a government this time around but shat the bed

In order to get into government in this county Labour have to make major concesessions on their ideal policies as Ireland just isn't a left wing country. In order to govern or have influence they have to, largely, abandon their idealogy which is not a recipe for success.

Labour can only become relevant again. Although Labour should be commended for at least trying unlike some other left-wing TDs. The left of Ireland is better in the hands of Laboutr than champagne socialists like Murphy and RBB.

oscarBravo

Sad Professor wrote: »

What Ireland needs, and what Labour has falsely presented itself as for decades, is a genuinely centre-left social democratic party. One that is prepared to go into government - but not with right-wing parties.

So... with whom?

Damned if they do, damned if they don't. If they go into government with FF or FG, they're propping up right-wing parties. If they refuse to go into government, they're watching from the sidelines as the right-wing parties divide the spoils.

banie01

Whilst Labour are in trouble and in real danger of becoming irrelevant if they don't answer some hard questions on policy and the direction of the party.
If Alan Kelly is found to be the answer to any of those questions, Labour will be reduced to a footnote.

Hitman3000

oscarBravo wrote:

Damned if they do, damned if they don't. If they go into government with FF or FG, they're propping up right-wing parties. If they refuse to go into government, they're watching from the sidelines as the right-wing parties divide the spoils.

Labour had an opportunity in 2011 to become the largest opposition party and let FG govern on their own. 2016 I believe would have seen a Labour dominated government. Instead the old guard of Labour saw a final opportunity of a ministerial role. I fully believe they knew they were throwing the new and younger Labour TD's under a bus driven by FG.

oscarBravo

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Labour had an opportunity in 2011 to become the largest opposition party and let FG govern on their own.

With 76 seats?

2016 I believe would have seen a Labour dominated government.

With what coalition partners?

Instead the old guard of Labour saw a final opportunity of a ministerial role. I fully believe they knew they were throwing the new and younger Labour TD's under a bus driven by FG.

The problem with the argument that if they had done x, y would have resulted is that it is unknowable. You may believe that, but your hindsight-informed beliefs in 2018 are completely and utterly useless to someone making a decision as to whether or not to go into coalition in 2011.

Hitman3000

oscarBravo wrote:

With what coalition partners?

I said dominated, therefore in a position to push for more of their policies.

Hitman3000

oscarBravo wrote:

The problem with the argument that if they had done x, y would have resulted is that it is unknowable. You may believe that, but your hindsight-informed beliefs in 2018 are completely and utterly useless to someone making a decision as to whether or not to go into coalition in 2011.

Plenty of the labour grassroots voted against Labour going into government in 2011. As an aside what I have seen in the past when a smaller party enters government allows me to make an assumption as to what Labour could have avoided.

[Deleted User]

oscarBravo wrote: »

to someone making a decision as to whether or not to go into coalition in 2011.

I was there, that was the truth of it

Edgware

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Go into government? That's what destroyed the party in the first place

This country destroys minority parties at election time as they blame the minority for not magically fixing all the ills of FF or FG

Labour had the chance to lead the last opposition and be in with a huge shout for actually leading a government this time around but shat the bed

But if Labour don't go into government someone else will get the big bags of moolah.
Why should Michael D be the only Labour person with their head in the trough. That wouldn't be fair