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Is Brendan Howlin in trouble?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 68,505 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Unless the party rules are changed to allow a leader from the Seanad there's no sensible replacement. Alan Kelly is tainted for at least another Dail term due to IW, even if it was mostly cleaning up Hogan's mess.

    If Nash, Humphreys, O Riordain or Lynch get back in as TDs I think any one of them would do better with the public as leader


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,674 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    Other than Kelly, who else would want to be leader?

    Labour's best hope is to keep their head down until the public start to forget their betrayal and Howlin is the man to do that. Sure, you'd barely know he was in the Dail. Making Kelly leader would just hasten the party's demise. But I assume they have to keep dangling the leadership in front of him to stop him leaving for his true home in Fine Gael.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    They need Fianna Fail to get back in then they can build their base back up criticising Fianna Fail policy. They are currently too tied to the current Fine Gael regime. A similar problem as they had after they partnered with Fianna Fail. They need to take a good look at who they really are or profess to be.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    They need Fianna Fail to get back in then they can build their base back up criticising Fianna Fail policy. They are currently too tied to the current Fine Gael regime. A similar problem as they had after they partnered with Fianna Fail. They need to take a good look at who they really are or profess to be.

    This is one of the issues, they can't criticise the current government after implementing the austerity the way they did, right alongside them.

    They committed political suicide in 2012. They should have led the opposition and mounted a proper challenge. As it was they've stuck us with the status quo and left us with no centre left option.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,732 ✭✭✭BarryD2


    Who's the best alternative. Not a huge fan of Howlin but Alan Kelly is a fierce chancer altogether. Nearly any time I hear him, he seems to drop clangers. I suppose he has more charisma but you need substance as well.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    They should beg Roisin Shortall's forgiveness and make her leader. She's more Labour than Labour.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,841 ✭✭✭Squatter


    They should beg Roisin Shortall's forgiveness and make her leader. She's more Labour than Labour.

    Roisin has serious problems dealing with men! Just ask Stephen Donnelly (or James Reilly).


    And Alan "the mouth" Kelly is little more than a self-promoting windbag - his commitment to socialism is about as fickle as my support for Irish Womens' hockey!


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,205 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    Labour are a shambles.

    Brendan Howlin cut the wages of all public sector workers when in Govt, he doesn’t deserve to be leader for that alone.

    Alan Kelly doesn’t have the temperament to be leader, nor does he have the ability to bring people with him. Anyone that works with him finds him incredibly difficult to deal with.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,571 ✭✭✭Red_Wake


    They'll merge with the Soc Dem's in a few years and start growing again by hoovering up the less intellectually damaged elements of the current left in Ireland.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Squatter wrote: »
    Roisin has serious problems dealing with men! Just ask Stephen Donnelly (or James Reilly).


    And Alan "the mouth" Kelly is little more than a self-promoting windbag - his commitment to socialism is about as fickle as my support for Irish Womens' hockey!

    The Reilly problem was crony clinic allocation, not leaving the toilet seat up.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,918 ✭✭✭Grab All Association


    Do they think they'll win more seats with the egomaniac narcissist Alan Kelly?

    The people of Nenagh were fully convinced Apple were opening a store in the old O'Connors site. Their shock when a Mr. Price opened :D
    His canvassers were telling people everything at the door. I wouldn't be surprised if they said he created the solar system.

    He claimed credit here in Thurles for CCTV (which was funded by Pobal years before he ever entered politics), saving Templemore station (it's a mainline station)


    Newstalk were in Thurles with their mobile studio, Lowry and McGrath interviewed and he wasn't invited. He was driven state car to Thurles and made a scene like a child in front of everyone in Liberty Square.

    Do they really want this man to lead their party?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,841 ✭✭✭Squatter


    The Reilly problem was crony clinic allocation, not leaving the toilet seat up.

    That was the Shortall spin right enough.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    Labour party did incredible damage to themselves in 2011 with their every little hurts campaign. I'm of the opinion the older members Rabitte and Co knew they would only get one more chance in government and said anything they could they obtain a ministerial post. They enthusiastically implemented every FG cut and measure. Spear heading Irish Water when they knew it was toxic demonstrated the arrogance normally associated with FG was astounding for a party that claims to represent the workers.
    Labour I believe are finished.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,262 ✭✭✭emo72


    They'll never be forgiven. I expected FG to put the austerity boot into us. We all thought labour would protect us. It's akin to a poor sick fella lying on the ground taking a beating from a bully, and your hoping for a friend to help you, but he sneaks in on the sly and puts a sneaky boot into you when your not looking.

    They're finished.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Squatter wrote: »
    That was the Shortall spin right enough.

    Can you elaborate? She wasn't calling out Reilly on clinic allocation? She certainly was and Labour failing to support her or call Reilly out was a major reason why she left or do you know otherwise?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    I don't think Alan Kelly would make a great leader. He is too closely associated with the Irish Water disaster. He was its most enthusiastic cheerleader, way ahead of anyone in Fine Gael. Even the name "Irish Water" gives off such bad vibes, they should consider changing the name.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 789 ✭✭✭Turnipman


    Can you elaborate? She wasn't calling out Reilly on clinic allocation? She certainly was and Labour failing to support her or call Reilly out was a major reason why she left or do you know otherwise?

    Yes, I can elaborate. Junior Minister Rosie drew up her little list and then the Minister (Reilly) augmented it as advised by the HSE so Rosie took the huff and flounced away. The poor dear hadn't a notion about Ministerial power so she had deluded herself into thinking that she had statutory responsibility for something!


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,918 ✭✭✭Grab All Association


    The same James Reilly who in 2011 closed beds in the Hospital of Assumption, a modern 5 year old facility HSE nursing home whilst he was shareholder in a private nursing home in nearby Carrick On Suir.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,205 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    I don't think Alan Kelly would make a great leader. He is too closely associated with the Irish Water disaster. He was its most enthusiastic cheerleader, way ahead of anyone in Fine Gael. Even the name "Irish Water" gives off such bad vibes, they should consider changing the name.

    The fact that he’s universally disliked will also work against him.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,841 ✭✭✭Squatter


    The same James Reilly who in 2011 closed beds in the Hospital of Assumption, a modern 5 year old facility HSE nursing home whilst he was shareholder in a private nursing home in nearby Carrick On Suir.

    The beds closed by the HSE, you mean? Or have you evidence of Ministerial interference for personal gain?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Turnipman wrote: »
    Yes, I can elaborate. Junior Minister Rosie drew up her little list and then the Minister (Reilly) augmented it as advised by the HSE so Rosie took the huff and flounced away. The poor dear hadn't a notion about Ministerial power so she had deluded herself into thinking that she had statutory responsibility for something!

    She was the only minister looking out for the tax payer on that issue. She should be commended. Reilly was feathering his own nest. She called him out. It was two fingers to the electorate thinking we'd a new way of doing business with FG. All your sexism aside, you are plainly wrong. Attempted to get two primary care sites in his own constituency.
    Letting that slide lost Labour support. It was the beginning of the end for them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 41,055 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    This is game playing by Alan Kelly. He knows that O Riordain, Nash or another person might have a better chance at winning leadership post an election so he reckons - get in there first is a good game strategy. This isnt genuinely about the Labour Party or Howlins leadership of the party at all. It is about Alan Kellys ego. Absolutely nothing else.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    This is game playing by Alan Kelly. He knows that O Riordain, Nash or another person might have a better chance at winning leadership post an election so he reckons - get in there first is a good game strategy. This isnt genuinely about the Labour Party or Howlins leadership of the party at all. It is about Alan Kellys ego. Absolutely nothing else.

    I don't see the point either. Labour need some time to think about who they are. Regardless of who the leader is they'll have that time in spades.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 752 ✭✭✭DickSwiveller Returns


    They have no purpose at the moment. They have pretty much lost their working class base and have been eclipsed by Fine Gael as the party of middle class liberals. It will disappear in a few years.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,253 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/o-riordain-warns-restive-party-against-labour-leadership-heave-9623ql39f

    Aodhan O'Riordain channeling the spirit of Gerry Collins: "I pleaded with Alan Kelly, I told him you're bursting up the party, you're showing frightening immaturity...I myself have no leadership ambitions.":pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 41,055 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/o-riordain-warns-restive-party-against-labour-leadership-heave-9623ql39f

    Aodhan O'Riordain channeling the spirit of Gerry Collins: "I pleaded with Alan Kelly, I told him you're bursting up the party, you're showing frightening immaturity...I myself have no leadership ambitions.":pac:

    Ya wha? None of what you just typed is in the article

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/o-riordain-warns-restive-party-against-labour-leadership-heave-9623ql39f

    Aodhan O'Riordain channeling the spirit of Gerry Collins: "I pleaded with Alan Kelly, I told him you're bursting up the party, you're showing frightening immaturity...I myself have no leadership ambitions.":pac:


    I mean who could have predicted that joining FG in attacking their base would destroy the party.

    Oh wait I did, along with several others, but were told where to go at a party meeting


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,446 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    Howlin has been ineffectual.

    Kelly has the albatross of Irish water around his neck.

    Lot of labour members can’t stand him.

    Don’t think he’s overly popular among the public either.

    He seems to be very ambitious and in a hurry.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,505 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    He seems to be very ambitious and in a hurry.

    Because this is his only chance as any one of Lynch, O'Riordain, Humphreys or Nash would be more likely to win should they get returned to the Dail.

    However, if he did get in now he'd have to either enter Government or there'd be another leadership election anyway under party rules.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,253 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Ya wha? None of what you just typed is in the article

    I was referencing this infamous episode:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerry_Collins_(politician)
    In 1991, tensions began to surface within Fianna Fáil regarding the continued leadership of Charles Haughey. Minister for Finance Albert Reynolds was the main challenger, however, he had little support from his cabinet colleagues. In an infamous interview on the Six One News Collins made a plea to Reynolds asking him not to challenge Haughey for the leadership of the Fianna Fáil party: "This is going to wreck our party right down the centre and it's going to burst up government". The incident was much parodied, particularly by Dermot Morgan later that year.

    of which O'Riordain's recent maneuverings seem to me to be strangely reminiscent...


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