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STOVES questions and answers here(see mod note in post 1)

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    #5132
    gillamandango
    Registered Users Posts: 440 ✭✭gillamandango


    I had the same Issue, an installer I would trust told me not to bother as its already lined and the flu would then need vermiculite to seal and your wont get a proper seal on a 2story so a complete waste of money he says. I just put in the reducer and about 3ft of enamled pipe which the installer had in the van..Said normally 1f would be enough. Anyways, that's an option and not a recommendation.


  • Options
    #5133
    Jane98
    Registered Users Posts: 570 ✭✭✭Jane98


    Hi,

    Can anyone recommend an insert multi fuel stove 5-6kw to fit a standard 16inch opening. Something middle of the road would be fine as its for a tv room so probably wont be lit more than at the weekends.

    Thanks.


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    #5134
    electrofelix
    Registered Users Posts: 273 ✭✭electrofelix


    Looking for some guidance on flue liners and heat clearance (we've a wooden mantelpiece), also we've a wide crack in the chimney liner that has been established by a chimney repair person.

    Previously posted a query here around trying to understand whether a back boiler was worth the investment (https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=105376217#post105376217). Short story on that, is it appears not to be worth it.

    With that determined we've identified a suitable stove - Waterford Stanley Cara insert (matt black). (Manual http://www.waterfordstanley.com/media/2027555/cara-insert-nb-mk-ii-manual_rev-14.pdf)


    Asked some salesmen, fitters and one chimney repair person for some quotes and recommendations, getting some different answers so hoping someone here can help clear things up.


    Chimney repair person:
    Relining, supply of stove (~7KW), and associated works using 316L flexible stainless steel flue liner = 1900
    Second option to include 904L stainless steel flue liner = 2300

    They recommended going the higher grade, and stated there may be an issue with the wooden surround


    Sales/fitter person at a fireplace shop stated there was no need to consider a dual wall liner, and quoted a 5kw stove with stainless steel flue liner = 1200, ~900 for stove + lining & 300 fitting.

    The façade on stove they were recommending is too wide though and would cover most of the tiles on either side of our existing surround. But the comment on the dual wall liner was unclear because they were just rubbishing the idea of even considering it.

    Finally the sales person and recommended fitter from the place selling the stanley stove.
    Their fitter suggested that it could be fitted with no liner (even though I mentioned about the crack, so unlikely to go with them), and they also stated that our wooden mantelpiece would be fine even though the clearances of the stanley cara would be 550mm to the top and 350mm to the sides. Quote was 1400 for stove/liner/etc + 500 for fitting. Works out at nearly 500 for the liner & backfill

    Sales shop also stated there was no benefit to the 904L flue liner, just go with the standard.


    So we're confused as to what to believe and who to trust:
    • Is there really no benefit to the 904L flue liner over the 316L?
    • Given 2 quotes around 1900 (or one with 400 more for 904L) including fitting and one at 1200, are the 1900 ones more in the ballpark for a decent stove including fitting?
    • Given the pic below can we really keep the wooden mantelpiece given the clearances of 550mm from the top of the stove (will have about 320mm at most) and 350mm from the sides (220 available) would be well outside what we currently have?
    • Finally a past national paper news story about bad chimney repairs around where we live has caused us some concern on making sure we get multiple recommendations before finally going with one. So would appreciate some recommendations of fitters (PMs only please for this part)

    453508.jpg


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    #5135
    van_beano
    Registered Users Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭van_beano


    I’m only replying because I had the exact same fireplace as you have there, complete with the flower tiles. I don’t have any advice on the technical query you’re asking but last year I got that same mantle piece taken out and a new marble one put in with a new hearth, also a 5kw inset stove, chimney flue and a new cowl. This was for €2400 supplies and fitted. The stove is the Arizona Tucson stove.

    Used Kiln dried oak and turf in it over the winter, the heat out of it was great, no back boiler, just heated the room.


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    #5136
    electrofelix
    Registered Users Posts: 273 ✭✭electrofelix


    van_beano wrote: »
    I’m only replying because I had the exact same fireplace as you have there, complete with the flower tiles. I don’t have any advice on the technical query you’re asking but last year I got that same mantle piece taken out and a new marble one put in ....

    Sounds like you retained the cast iron + tile surround? Can you share what mantelpiece you went with? We were thinking that a dark one would be best, but it seems the main style is all for light colours these days.

    I suspect that the suggestion we can keep the wooden one wouldn't be accepted by either the stove manufacturer or our house insurance should there be an issue in the future, so I'm starting with the assumption we'll have to change that.


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    #5137
    van_beano
    Registered Users Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭van_beano


    electrofelix wrote: »
    Sounds like you retained the cast iron + tile surround? Can you share what mantelpiece you went with? We were thinking that a dark one would be best, but it seems the main style is all for light colours these days.

    I suspect that the suggestion we can keep the wooden one wouldn't be accepted by either the stove manufacturer or our house insurance should there be an issue in the future, so I'm starting with the assumption we'll have to change that.

    Here’s the before and after photos, there was nothing retained from the old fireplace, mantle piece taken out and old fireplace taken out and hole widened for the inset


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    #5138
    Skippy along
    Registered Users Posts: 689 ✭✭✭Skippy along


    van_beano wrote: »
    Here’s the before and after photos, there was nothing retained from the old fireplace, mantle piece taken out and old fireplace taken out and hole widened for the inset

    Hi electrofelix
    Was in a similar position to you are now regarding having a wooden surround, having got a stove fitted i thought I'd get away with it but there's just so much more heat generated from the top and sides than a real fire that eventuallty for safety and not burning down the house i had to go with a marble fireplace.


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    #5139
    pedroeibar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    electrofelix wrote: »
    So we're confused as to what to believe and who to trust:

    I’m in the process (quote stage) of having a stove installed, have done lots of research but I’m not a pro.
    You have not mentioned room size. The first consideration is the heat output of the stove. What size (Kw) stove do you need to heat the room efficiently?
    electrofelix wrote: »
    ….we've a wide crack in the chimney liner ………….Is there really no benefit to the 904L flue liner over the 316L?
    You do not need to repair the crack, simply fit a flue liner. Go with the high-grade steel one, it will last longer and is better. The labour cost of fitting either is about the same, so the extra cost is (should be!) the price differential on the material. You do not mention the size/diameter of the chimney – that matters, and if the empty space around the liner needs to be filled with vermiculite.
    electrofelix wrote: »
    Given 2 quotes around 1900 (or one with 400 more for 904L) including fitting and one at 1200, are the 1900 ones more in the ballpark for a decent stove including fitting?
    I would guess that the bottom quote probably is based on a rubbish stove. I’m budgeting €2-2.5k for my job – non-boiler insert 10Kw stove + fitting.
    electrofelix wrote: »
    The façade on stove they were recommending is too wide though and would cover most of the tiles on either side of our existing surround………………………Given the pic below can we really keep the wooden mantelpiece given the clearances of 550mm from the top of the stove (will have about 320mm at most) and 350mm from the sides (220 available) would be well outside what we currently have?
    Get a sheet of cardboard or paper, cut it to the size of the stove front and tape it to the fireplace. How does it look? If a nice stove is squeezed in, the overall effect will be ruined. Removing the fireplace is no big deal, it will require a bit of plastering and a new surround. The fitter will have to remove the cast iron tiling / insert section anyway.
    electrofelix wrote: »
    Sales/fitter person at a fireplace shop stated there was no need to consider a dual wall liner.
    Dual-wall liner is better but optional. It does provides insulation. If the house is old or if there is a long chimney length of if the chimney is on an outside wall you can get condensation on the walls of the liner, leading to a build-up of soot which is a cause of chimney fires. A dual-wall liner minimises this.

    I would not buy from the shop that advised you that you do not need a liner. Also, I will buy only from a shop that has its own fitter or fitting service. If something goes wrong you need one port of call, not a fitter saying the stove is wrong and the shop saying that the stove was not fitted properly (a constant theme in the pages of this thread!).


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    #5140
    dathi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭dathi


    electrofelix wrote: »
    Looking for some guidance on flue liners and heat clearance (we've a wooden mantelpiece),


    http://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/migrated-files/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad%2C37240%2Cen.pdf


    page 27 of the above building regulations TGDs show the minimum clearance distances allowed


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    #5141
    electrofelix
    Registered Users Posts: 273 ✭✭electrofelix


    van_beano wrote: »
    Here’s the before and after photos, there was nothing retained from the old fireplace, mantle piece taken out and old fireplace taken out and hole widened for the inset

    Thanks, that's a shame about not being able to retain anything. Looking to hold onto the cast iron/tiled area as my parents have something similar and it looks pretty nice, though they have a marble (or maybe it's slate) mantel/surround.
    Skippy along wrote: »
    Hi electrofelix
    Was in a similar position to you are now regarding having a wooden surround, having got a stove fitted i thought I'd get away with it but there's just so much more heat generated from the top and sides than a real fire that eventuallty for safety and not burning down the house i had to go with a marble fireplace.

    Good to have that confirmed, I suspected it was true, and know to skip that fitter as well. They were saying that as it was recessed a bit it would be ok, but that seemed unlikely based on the clearances I was reading.
    pedroeibar1 wrote: »
    I’m in the process (quote stage) of having a stove installed, have done lots of research but I’m not a pro.
    You have not mentioned room size. The first consideration is the heat output of the stove. What size (Kw) stove do you need to heat the room efficiently?

    I would need to calculate again, but I believe 4-5KW is sufficient for the room we have, also have double doors that are usually left open, so going a little larger and heating the adjoining kitchen/dining area works for us.
    pedroeibar1 wrote: »
    You do not need to repair the crack, simply fit a flue liner. Go with the high-grade steel one, it will last longer and is better. The labour cost of fitting either is about the same, so the extra cost is (should be!) the price differential on the material. You do not mention the size/diameter of the chimney – that matters, and if the empty space around the liner needs to be filled with vermiculite.

    Agreed on repair, struck as very odd for a fitter to suggest that a liner was not needed (almost dangerous). Is there anything specific about the difference between the two grades of liner that helps understand the impact such as higher thermal range tolerated?

    Chimney is standard 200mm, and stove needs either 125mm or 150mm flue, can't recall which, so backfill definitely required.
    pedroeibar1 wrote: »
    I would guess that the bottom quote probably is based on a rubbish stove. I’m budgeting €2-2.5k for my job – non-boiler insert 10Kw stove + fitting.

    Get a sheet of cardboard or paper, cut it to the size of the stove front and tape it to the fireplace. How does it look? If a nice stove is squeezed in, the overall effect will be ruined. Removing the fireplace is no big deal, it will require a bit of plastering and a new surround. The fitter will have to remove the cast iron tiling / insert section anyway.

    Good to have another reference point, thanks for confirming my suspicions on that quote.

    Checked the sizes of the stanley stove, it should only go 5mm over the tiles on either side, so shouldn't be too noticeable.

    pedroeibar1 wrote: »
    Dual-wall liner is better but optional. It does provides insulation. If the house is old or if there is a long chimney length of if the chimney is on an outside wall you can get condensation on the walls of the liner, leading to a build-up of soot which is a cause of chimney fires. A dual-wall liner minimises this.

    I would not buy from the shop that advised you that you do not need a liner. Also, I will buy only from a shop that has its own fitter or fitting service. If something goes wrong you need one port of call, not a fitter saying the stove is wrong and the shop saying that the stove was not fitted properly (a constant theme in the pages of this thread!).

    Thanks, that is some of the missing info about the dual wall 904L liner that I didn't pick up from the person who originally recommended it. Makes sense and also scrubs a shop and separate fitter from the list of possibles ;-)
    dathi wrote: »
    http://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/migrated-files/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad%2C37240%2Cen.pdf

    page 27 of the above building regulations TGDs show the minimum clearance distances allowed

    Thanks, but that appears to be the clearances within the chimney itself, there is a different set that is specific to each stove. The stanley cara one is in the manual I lined to previously, and is 550mm to the top and 350mm to the sides.

    A fitter was suggesting that the slight recessed nature of the cast iron inset for the stove would prevent the heat reaching the top and side part of the wooden mantel, which wasn't something I was willing to accept at face value from the same person that suggested that we wouldn't need a liner.... but as they are supposed to be the expert and I'm just a ordinary person I wanted to confirm my gut feeling wasn't just misplaced.


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    #5142
    Cocoon
    Registered Users Posts: 600 ✭✭✭Cocoon


    electrofelix wrote: »
    Looking for some guidance on flue liners and heat clearance (we've a wooden mantelpiece), also we've a wide crack in the chimney liner that has been established by a chimney repair person.

    Previously posted a query here around trying to understand whether a back boiler was worth the investment (https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=105376217#post105376217). Short story on that, is it appears not to be worth it.

    With that determined we've identified a suitable stove - Waterford Stanley Cara insert (matt black). (Manual http://www.waterfordstanley.com/media/2027555/cara-insert-nb-mk-ii-manual_rev-14.pdf)


    Asked some salesmen, fitters and one chimney repair person for some quotes and recommendations, getting some different answers so hoping someone here can help clear things up.


    Chimney repair person:
    Relining, supply of stove (~7KW), and associated works using 316L flexible stainless steel flue liner = 1900
    Second option to include 904L stainless steel flue liner = 2300

    They recommended going the higher grade, and stated there may be an issue with the wooden surround


    Sales/fitter person at a fireplace shop stated there was no need to consider a dual wall liner, and quoted a 5kw stove with stainless steel flue liner = 1200, ~900 for stove + lining & 300 fitting.

    The fae on stove they were recommending is too wide though and would cover most of the tiles on either side of our existing surround. But the comment on the dual wall liner was unclear because they were just rubbishing the idea of even considering it.

    Finally the sales person and recommended fitter from the place selling the stanley stove.
    Their fitter suggested that it could be fitted with no liner (even though I mentioned about the crack, so unlikely to go with them), and they also stated that our wooden mantelpiece would be fine even though the clearances of the stanley cara would be 550mm to the top and 350mm to the sides. Quote was 1400 for stove/liner/etc + 500 for fitting. Works out at nearly 500 for the liner & backfill

    Sales shop also stated there was no benefit to the 904L flue liner, just go with the standard.


    So we're confused as to what to believe and who to trust:
    • Is there really no benefit to the 904L flue liner over the 316L?
    • Given 2 quotes around 1900 (or one with 400 more for 904L) including fitting and one at 1200, are the 1900 ones more in the ballpark for a decent stove including fitting?
    • Given the pic below can we really keep the wooden mantelpiece given the clearances of 550mm from the top of the stove (will have about 320mm at most) and 350mm from the sides (220 available) would be well outside what we currently have?
    • Finally a past national paper news story about bad chimney repairs around where we live has caused us some concern on making sure we get multiple recommendations before finally going with one. So would appreciate some recommendations of fitters (PMs only please for this part)

    453508.jpg


    I've the same fireplace and installed a Town and country Little Thurlow stove which I fit without flue liner, that was about 10 years ago. The wood on the fire place gets hot but hasn't caught fire yet.

    [IMG][/img]IMG_20180620_232534_HHT.jpg


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    #5143
    dathi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭dathi


    electrofelix wrote: »



    Thanks, but that appears to be the clearances within the chimney itself, there is a different set that is specific to each stove. The stanley cara one is in the manual I lined to previously, and is 550mm to the top and 350mm to the sides.
    .

    no page 27 diagram 13 shows that flammable materials cannot be placed within 300mm of the top of stove page 28 has it in writing if you cannot make out diagram


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    #5144
    electrofelix
    Registered Users Posts: 273 ✭✭electrofelix


    dathi wrote: »
    no page 27 diagram 13 shows that flammable materials cannot be placed within 300mm of the top of stove page 28 has it in writing if you cannot make out diagram

    OK, now I'm properly confused about clearances.

    I thought the critical ones were those supplied by the manufacturer? See http://www.waterfordstanley.com/media/2027555/cara-insert-nb-mk-ii-manual_rev-14.pdf page 12

    Are the building ones the minimum required so if the manufacturer states less is required you still can't be under, but you'd still need to follow the manual if it states a larger distance is required otherwise likely not covered by insurance?


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    #5145
    rpmcs
    Registered Users Posts: 186 ✭✭rpmcs


    electrofelix wrote:
    Are the building ones the minimum required so if the manufacturer states less is required you still can't be under, but you'd still need to follow the manual if it states a larger distance is required otherwise likely not covered by insurance?


    Exactly. As stated minimum or manufacture guide lines. Which ever is greater.
    It's scary the poor advice being given by some shops.
    Also to look at the 316 or 904 liners are no different. The only difference is they're resistance to corrosion. The 904 has a far longer life span and really the only thing to be used in my opinion if you burn coal.


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    #5146
    crokes88
    Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭crokes88


    Has anyone any got any feedback on the Stratford ecoboiler 12 cassette?I am thinking of getting this stove. It is relatively new and there isn't many reviews on it! If anyone has any info, I would appreciate it or can anyone recommend and insert cassette boiler stove to fit a standard fireplace opening?thanks


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    #5147
    Barr
    Registered Users Posts: 7,000 ✭✭✭Barr


    Has anyone bought from a company called www.ecogt.ie ?

    They advertise on done deal but don't have a showroom.


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    #5148
    Pistachio
    Registered Users Posts: 377 ✭✭Pistachio


    I need to replace the fire back (not sure the correct term...) in a Dimplex 8kw multi fuel stove, I'm in Galway so went to McDonagh's where the guy said he's not sure if he can get it, waiting a couple of weeks for Dimplex to get back to him. Can anyone tell me where else around Galway I could get this?
    Thanks.


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    #5149
    emg74
    Registered Users Posts: 225 ✭✭emg74


    Try Alan Gordon in Kilkerrin, we have bought our 2 stoves from him and found him very helpful, other family members and neighbours have dealt with him and all positive feedback.


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    #5150
    loki7777
    Registered Users Posts: 1,157 ✭✭✭loki7777


    I have a question: we removed(ok, not we put stove supplier;) fireplace and put insert stove but we are left with hole above stove 20x60 cm - we want to put a decorative stone
    so will have to fill that gap. I want to use few bricks and reinforcing bars to keep it in place but can i use normal mortar or should i use kind of heat resistant mortar(how would you call it anyway?)?


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    #5151
    thelibertyboy
    Registered Users Posts: 310 ✭✭thelibertyboy


    Probably stupid question the BTU of the room i want to put a stove in is 3000 would a 2kw stove be ok to install? and any suggestions of makes?


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    #5152
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users Posts: 6,579 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    Hi folks

    Two questions

    (i) got 2 quotes recently; there is a substantial difference between the two, despite charging same for stove and surround/ hearth. One has an in-house team of fitters; it is charging circa 1800 for relining and 1000 for fitting. Their relining includes Vermiculite. The other is charging 900 for relining and excludes Vermiculite and 250 for fitting, and the fitting is contracted. Any thoughts on this?

    (ii) one of them is giving me a few stove options, but highly recommends the naturally more expensive version because it has a fan. Why is a fan worth paying a lot lot extra for?


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    #5153
    Forge83
    Registered Users Posts: 739 ✭✭✭Forge83


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    Hi folks

    Two questions

    (i) got 2 quotes recently; there is a substantial difference between the two, despite charging same for stove and surround/ hearth. One has an in-house team of fitters; it is charging circa 1800 for relining and 1000 for fitting. Their relining includes Vermiculite. The other is charging 900 for relining and excludes Vermiculite and 250 for fitting, and the fitting is contracted. Any thoughts on this?

    (ii) one of them is giving me a few stove options, but highly recommends the naturally more expensive version because it has a fan. Why is a fan worth paying a lot lot extra for?

    The first crowd are absolutely trying to screw you. That’s scandalous.
    The second quote seems very cheap especially for the labor. Assuming the Liner is high grade 904.
    Are both install teams Hetas qualified?


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    #5154
    Barr
    Registered Users Posts: 7,000 ✭✭✭Barr


    I am looking at a Henley G1 at the moment. They are mutifuel I believe.


    Anyone know what they like , good or bad.

    This is the one.

    http://henleystoves.com/elite-g1-7kw/


    Thanks
    Barr:)


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    #5155
    Forge83
    Registered Users Posts: 739 ✭✭✭Forge83


    Barr wrote: »
    I am looking at a Henley G1 at the moment. They are mutifuel I believe.


    Anyone know what they like , good or bad.

    This is the one.

    http://henleystoves.com/elite-g1-7kw/


    Thanks
    Barr:)

    Very good stove.
    German manufactured.
    However most of those cylindrical stoves are long term only for use with wood.
    It will burn coal/peat etc but wouldn’t advise long term use.

    RRP €1576 but can be got a bit cheaper.


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    #5156
    Barr
    Registered Users Posts: 7,000 ✭✭✭Barr


    Forge83 wrote: »
    Very good stove.
    German manufactured.
    However most of those cylindrical stoves are long term only for use with wood.
    It will burn coal/peat etc but wouldn’t advise long term use.

    RRP €1576 but can be got a bit cheaper.

    Thanks Forge , I really like the look of it.

    It is going into a corner so the shape works.

    The one I saw was white in colour but think the black would probably be better.


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    #5157
    Barr
    Registered Users Posts: 7,000 ✭✭✭Barr


    Forge83 wrote: »
    Very good stove.
    German manufactured.
    However most of those cylindrical stoves are long term only for use with wood.
    It will burn coal/peat etc but wouldn’t advise long term use.

    RRP €1576 but can be got a bit cheaper.

    What would happen to it if coal was being used long term.

    Would the grate become an issue or some other part of it ?


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    #5158
    Forge83
    Registered Users Posts: 739 ✭✭✭Forge83


    Barr wrote: »
    What would happen to it if coal was being used long term.

    Would the grate become an issue or some other part of it ?

    Yes you will have to replace grates,baffles,bricks etc more often.


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    #5159
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users Posts: 6,579 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    Anyone know of any end to end suppliers in Dublin area - i.e. company that has its own fitters as staff rather than outsourcing?

    THanks.


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    #5160
    gmisk
    Registered Users Posts: 32,409 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    Would someone be able to recommend a reasonable priced supplier and fitter? Got two quotes and they are all over the place, want someone decent but not astronomical price wise


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    #5161
    van_beano
    Registered Users Posts: 1,345 ✭✭✭van_beano


    Got a new mantelpiece, 5kw non-boiler insert stove, hearth and chimney lined last year for €2,400. They took the old fireplace out and took it away. Worked perfectly over the winter, burned kiln dried oak and turf in it.

    Used a Dublin based company out in Kylemore Park North.


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