Family of seven sleep in Garda station Mod note post one

Dannyriver · 30-08-2018 03:21PM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Why do we automatically have to feel sorry for kids? Not going to be a popular opinion, but other peoples kids (well, kids in general imo) are not my problem. Going by previous experience, the kids not being able to read is not a far stretch, considering the circumstances. Again though, just an opinion. And yes, if they're brought up in those conditions, they are most likely going to turn out to be criminals. There comes a point when the kids will grow into adults, and their actions will give them the title they deserve. I know it wouldn't be easy to leave that life and try and make something of it, but the fact is the vast majority don't, or don't want to. So I see nothing wrong with the comment.

A criminal is a scumbag, I don't give a toss about circumstances or background, committing a crime is a person choice, so having a bad upbringing or issues with alcohol or drugs has no bearing with me. You commit a crime, you're a scumbag (i'm on about victim crimes, ie: burglary, robbery, fraud, etc).

We feel sorry for kids because we recognise that they aren t capable yet of understanding and coping by themselves in an adult world , all mammals recognise the helpless aspect of the young, unless they are particularly disturbed mammals.

Snowseer · 30-08-2018 03:27PM

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

It wasn't meant as a compliment either.

There will come a point when they will be responsible for their own actions. Regardless of their upbringing, they will know that it is wrong to harm people, to steal things etc. When they choose to do these things and do them repeatedly, then I personally will regard them as scumbags yes.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/raiders-with-120-convictions-out-on-bail-when-they-tied-up-and-beat-90yearold-woman-35313866.html

https://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0403/606517-man-gets-life-for-sligo-pensioner-murder/

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/many-lives-have-been-ruined-by-simon-mcginley-s-horrific-crimes-1.700478

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/almost-20-child-victims-of-alleged-paedophile-ring-identified-1.3416894

Hey. Well, I don't want to get dragged wildly from the topic I was commenting on, so I'll stick with the one that I put in bold.

When is that point?
Will they really know that it's wrong to harm people, to steal things etc.? How?

I could go and have a discussion with you on the other points if you like, but, for now, I'm just trying to put across that these children are being raised in an un-ideal situation. I am a big believer in nurture over nature here. What you and I know as right or wrong may not be reality for them. When they go on with their lives, with very different views than ours, because of their upbringing, when does it become their fault?

deaddonkey15 · 30-08-2018 03:44PM

Snowseer wrote: »

When is that point?

When they legally become adults. I would think that regardless of their upbringing, they would have a very basic concept of right and wrong long before that though.

Snowseer wrote: »

Will they really know that it's wrong to harm people, to steal things etc.? How?

Probably after their first one or two convictions. When they're arrested, brought before a judge, and possibly put in jail. Or maybe they will know from observing what happened to their father for breaking the law.

Although as long as they are given soft sentences, allowed to rack up several convictions, and defended by do-gooders like yourself who refuse to hold them responsible for their own actions - maybe the line between what's right and wrong does become a bit blurry for them.

Potential-Monke · 30-08-2018 04:25PM

Dannyriver wrote: »

We feel sorry for kids because we recognise that they aren t capable yet of understanding and coping by themselves in an adult world , all mammals recognise the helpless aspect of the young, unless they are particularly disturbed mammals.

So i'm particularly disturbed because I don't care for kids? Why? Because everyone should care for them? Because that's the done thing? No, everyone is entitled to their own opinions, as if everyone was the same, it would be a boring world. I care more for animals than humans, and that includes kids. I actually detest children, and only like the ones I'm related to, especially now that they're out of the toddler/child stage and into their teens.

Yes, kids are not capable of what you said, but it's not my job to be that person. They're not mine. They're not my responsibility.

Just because someone doesn't like something, it doesn't make them disturbed. The fact that you think this is a bit sad tbh. But, that's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. Just remember that not everyone is the same. Not everyone has to feel empathy for the 'normal' things people find empathy for.

Snowseer · 30-08-2018 05:06PM

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

When they legally become adults. I would think that regardless of their upbringing, they would have a very basic concept of right and wrong long before that though.

Well, that's just the point of an upbringing. If their upbringing is deficient, they may not have this understanding.

Sure, maybe that's why they may need...

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

one or two convictions. When they're arrested, brought before a judge, and possibly put in jail. Or maybe they will know from observing what happened to their father for breaking the law.

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Although as long as they are given soft sentences, allowed to rack up several convictions, and defended by do-gooders like yourself who refuse to hold them responsible for their own actions - maybe the line between what's right and wrong does become a bit blurry for them.

Be careful with your rant there. I am asking why these children, who have committed no crime, are being stigmatised in any way, shape or form. That you suggest I am defending them (for what exactly?), shows the baying mob mentality.

Potential-Monke · 30-08-2018 05:41PM

Snowseer wrote: »

I am asking why these children, who have committed no crime, are being stigmatised in any way, shape or form.

Because experience has shown that that is what they grow up into. It's not your, mine or anyone else's responsibility to ensure this doesn't happen. It's up to the parents and the Government to remove those children if required. Even then, I don't blame the Government as much. I still place the blame mainly at the parents feet.

iamwhoiam · 30-08-2018 05:43PM

I e mailed my TD's with the anomaly in social welfare payments . ie the fact a person who never paid a penny tax or PRSI could get more money than one who paid tax for years
Just got a reply from Katherine Zappone that she will send the info I uncovered to the minister of Social Protection

This is the glaring anomaly

I have just come across a huge anomaly and discrimination on the social welfare system that angers me

Job seekers benefit is for those who have worked and paid credits and tax ,But they now take the history of pay for that person from 2016 .So lets say a person age 30 earned less in 2016 for any reason ie maternity benefit , looking after a sick child etc .His benefit is reduced in 2018 because of that .He is now reduced to €155 a week

Weekly Jobseeker's Benefit payment from 22 March 2018

Average weekly earnings Personal rate

€150 - €219.99 €127.80
€220 - €299.99 €155.10
€300 or more €198.00

Now take Job seekers Allowance .Given to those with not enough credits , never worked a day , never paid tax .Age 30

Jobseeker's Allowance rates from 21 March 2018
Age Maximum personal rate I
Aged 26 and over €198.00
Aged 25 €152.80
Aged 18-24 €107.70

So the one who worked for 10 years and earned a bit less in 2016 gets less money than the one who never worked a day in their life .
This is an absolute disgrace , its discrimination towards the one who worked and now finds themselves without a job due to circumstances .

deaddonkey15 · 30-08-2018 05:54PM

Snowseer wrote: »

Well, that's just the point of an upbringing. If their upbringing is deficient, they may not have this understanding.

Would you be in favour of taking them away from their parents and into state care then?

Snowseer · 30-08-2018 05:59PM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Because experience has shown that that is what they grow up into. It's not your, mine or anyone else's responsibility to ensure this doesn't happen. It's up to the parents and the Government to remove those children if required. Even then, I don't blame the Government as much. I still place the blame mainly at the parents feet.

Ah - but Jeepers, H, Christ - not only do the children have no hope unless their parents can get their fingers out (general consensus is that will not happen), but the children already have to be tarred as criminals, illiterates, and n'er do wells before they ever even do anything.

The poor fckers. And, if they do what is expected of them, we can look forward to a thread here in another few years talking about how they should be incarcerated, castrated, or crucified. When they never had a choice at all?

Dannyriver · 30-08-2018 06:01PM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

So i'm particularly disturbed because I don't care for kids? Why? Because everyone should care for them? Because that's the done thing? No, everyone is entitled to their own opinions, as if everyone was the same, it would be a boring world. I care more for animals than humans, and that includes kids. I actually detest children, and only like the ones I'm related to, especially now that they're out of the toddler/child stage and into their teens.

Yes, kids are not capable of what you said, but it's not my job to be that person. They're not mine. They're not my responsibility.

Just because someone doesn't like something, it doesn't make them disturbed. The fact that you think this is a bit sad tbh. But, that's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. Just remember that not everyone is the same. Not everyone has to feel empathy for the 'normal' things people find empathy for.

Fair enough I wont go there with you , thankfully for the future of man kind you re in a fairly small minority.

Snowseer · 30-08-2018 06:07PM

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

When they legally become adults. I would think that regardless of their upbringing, they would have a very basic concept of right and wrong long before that though.

Snowseer wrote: »

Well, that's just the point of an upbringing. If their upbringing is deficient, they may not have this understanding.

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Would you be in favour of taking them away from their parents and into state care then?

Good question.

If these children were truly being raised in such a way that they couldn't differentiate between wrong and right, to such an extent that they were likely going to become criminals in the future and cost people through direct actions (e.g., burglary, assault), or indirect (e.g., funding prison stays, increase in insurance costs), then I would say yes. Yes they should - for their sake, and for the sake of others.

Dannyriver · 30-08-2018 06:13PM

Snowseer wrote: »

Good question.

If these children were truly being raised in such a way that they couldn't differentiate between wrong and right, to such an extent that they were likely going to become criminals in the future and cost people through direct actions (e.g., burglary, assault), or indirect (e.g., funding prison stays, increase in insurance costs), then I would say yes. Yes they should - for their sake, and for the sake of others.

I agree with you Snowseer, the onus is on the state to protect all children from harm, hence we have the children first act of 2015 which replaced earlier legislation in place for the same purposes. However I haven t seen anything/one saying that they are in any immediate danger.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2015/act/36/enacted/en/pdf

Potential-Monke · 30-08-2018 06:23PM

Dannyriver wrote: »

Fair enough I wont go there with you , thankfully for the future of man kind you re in a fairly small minority.

Steadily growing minority. Lots more people these days coming up with the same opinion. There's enough to be worrying about in your own life without having to worry about other people or their offspring. Someone has a child, it's their responsibility. I don't see why it should affect me, or why I should care, when I have enough worries of my own that I can actually do something about, compared to worrying about some knackers kid in which I can't do anything about.

But each to their own and all that.

Dannyriver · 30-08-2018 06:37PM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Steadily growing minority. Lots more people these days coming up with the same opinion. There's enough to be worrying about in your own life without having to worry about other people or their offspring. Someone has a child, it's their responsibility. I don't see why it should affect me, or why I should care, when I have enough worries of my own that I can actually do something about, compared to worrying about some knackers kid in which I can't do anything about.

But each to their own and all that.

Like I said above I don t know your situation past or present so Im not comfortable going there with you so yeah ..each to their own and all that.

end of the road · 30-08-2018 06:42PM

Sardine wrote: »

Traveller families are criminal gangs.

some are. others not.

Sardine wrote: »

The males go into crime, the women stay at home having babies.

some of them do. others don't.

Sardine wrote: »

No way will these kids finish school

on what basis do you say that? the below wouldn't be enough given plenty of people who have come from bad backgrounds have stayed in school and done well.

Sardine wrote: »

because travellers do not want to be part of normal society. They want to rob from normal civilians while taking the p*ss out of the welfare system.

some do, others don't.

Sardine wrote: »

If you think otherwise you're very naive.

if you think all travelers are at what you claim you are indeed naive. if you claim no travelers do bad things you are indeed naive.

end of the road · 30-08-2018 07:17PM

tretorn wrote: »

None of the young hardworking people in my locality will ever afford to be able to live where they grew up. Most wouldnt even be able to afford to rent a single bedroom in a house.

The Council owned a small site and they built small duplex apartments on it and gave them to people on social housing. They could have sold this site and built ten times as many houses in an area where land isnt at a premium. This makes no sense and nor does local authorities paying three hundred thousand for one semi detached house to give to a travelling family who more than likely will wreck the property if it isnt exactly where they want to live. The travellers want to live beside their own extended families and this would be grand if they bought sites no one else wants and set up home there. The problem is they want to live in urban areas with their extended families all around them but they want the taxpayer to pay for this.

The Government needs to take the bulls by the horn and tell Ms Cash she can do what working class people do, move far from job and family if you cant afford to live in a particular area. They can allocate her a house and tell her thats it and refuse to deal with her further. There are plenty of houses in rural locations that are a few minutes walk to a school or at worst a short drive. There should be no further interaction with Ms Cash once a property is identified and she should be barred from entering anymore Garda stations for photo opportunities.

Is there any other country in Europe where this sort of irresponsible carry on goes on. Im thinking of Romania but do the Roma get everything handed to them for free and do they have enormous families too.

the current system in relation to social housing works perfectly fine in terms of future dealings with a potential social tenant. after a certain amount of refusals one is put down to the bottom of the list, while others will get the availible house.
a mix of social housing and other housing is good for society, as long as the laws are enforced it prevents against the ills of social ghettoisation. some seem to want this, however we effectively tried this when the social towerblocks were built with people left to their own devices with nothing and it didn't work. we ended up having costly regenerations.
to bann miss cash from entering a garda station for a supposed photo shoot if she was to do it, would likely not be possible without simply banning her from the garda station, which would not be reasonable or possible as one is always entitled to enter a garda station where it is required for them to do so.
nobody gets everything handed to them for free. they get the bare basics, and that is what miss cash will get. no more no less. people all over the world have large families, even in countries with no supports what soever. large families is something that can't be 100% eliminated.

lmimmfn · 30-08-2018 07:41PM

I would support a huge building in the midlands( specifically not dublin ) with tiny rooms to accommodate all current homeless, something functional but not great. Might get rid of this joke of a system. With schools built locally also.

All on the housing list move there or take themselves off it. Don't see why homeless should choose where they live.

deco nate · 30-08-2018 10:00PM

end of the road wrote: »

some are. others not.

some of them do. others don't.

on what basis do you say that? the below wouldn't be enough given plenty of people who have come from bad backgrounds have stayed in school and done well.

some do, others don't.

if you think all travelers are at what you claim you are indeed naive. if you claim no travelers do bad things you are indeed naive.

For most of your multi quotes, how about the the crimes have done in the past. And will do in the future.
Or will you try to deny that fact to?

(oh wait, you are going to say how can I claim fact to something that hasn't happened yet)
Ok, so in the past part.
Want to deny?

I already know what you are going to post.

Ps: glad to see all the "charities" posting again on here

The_Kew_Tour · 30-08-2018 10:06PM

lmimmfn wrote: »

I would support a huge building in the midlands( specifically not dublin ) with tiny rooms to accommodate all current homeless, something functional but not great. Might get rid of this joke of a system. With schools built locally also.

All on the housing list move there or take themselves off it. Don't see why homeless should choose where they live.

To be fair you could be homeless and still working..

Then it's bit unfair to ask somebody to travel long distance to work.

To people who don't want to work I agree though

lmimmfn · 30-08-2018 10:23PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

To be fair you could be homeless and still working..

Then it's bit unfair to ask somebody to travel long distance to work.

To people who don't want to work I agree though

Absolutely no problem for those working, the local council should house them as it is today, non workers should move to the big house in the country

I just mean there should be a distinction made between those who are legitimately trying and deserve help vs wasters.

Atlantic Dawn · 30-08-2018 10:25PM

She gets a mention on the Tonight Show tonight, bloody shambles, leaves the door open for others to use such stunts for instant housing.

Atlantic Dawn · 30-08-2018 10:33PM

Niall Boylan on Tonight Show now, potential craic.

jay0109 · 30-08-2018 10:35PM

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Niall Boylan on Tonight Show now, potential craic.

He's laying in to the entitlement culture in Ireland and people getting houses for free. Lynn Boylan SF very upset with that type of talk

Gatling · 30-08-2018 10:53PM

end of the road wrote: »

the current system in relation to social housing works perfectly fine in terms of future dealings with a potential social tenant. after a certain amount of refusals one is put down to the bottom of the list,

They only get put down to the bottom of the list if they make 3 or more refusals in a 12 period , which they are then removed from the list ,but here is the kicker get representations from local TD's or local councillors and your back on the list and given priority too ,

A story from last year involved a suicide where a mother only 3 or 4 years on the sdcc housing list and had only Been living in a hotel a few months received 3 housing offers which were for 3 bed houses with 2 young boys ,
Now I'm on the same housing list with a wife and 2 kids so were 4 people and get told we can never have anything other than a 2 bed apartment ,11 years in total and zero offers of housing on the sdcc list ,
Yet others walk on and demand a 3bed or 4 bed and get it

The system is completely and totally ****ed up its only the lazyist and most entitled getting housed and anyone else is screwed over

sightband · 31-08-2018 06:07AM

Snowseer wrote: »

Ah - but Jeepers, H, Christ - not only do the children have no hope unless their parents can get their fingers out (general consensus is that will not happen), but the children already have to be tarred as criminals, illiterates, and n'er do wells before they ever even do anything.

The poor fckers. And, if they do what is expected of them, we can look forward to a thread here in another few years talking about how they should be incarcerated, castrated, or crucified. When they never had a choice at all?

Sorry but the likelihood is that not a single one of them will amount to sh*t in their lifetime.

tomofson · 31-08-2018 06:39AM

Snowseer wrote: »

Ah - but Jeepers, H, Christ - not only do the children have no hope unless their parents can get their fingers out (general consensus is that will not happen), but the children already have to be tarred as criminals, illiterates, and n'er do wells before they ever even do anything.

The poor fckers. And, if they do what is expected of them, we can look forward to a thread here in another few years talking about how they should be incarcerated, castrated, or crucified. When they never had a choice at all?

I would agree with you if they weren't from a certain minority, we all know the sort of morals travellers have and what they think is right and wrong.

They will most likely raise their children to spot the vulnerable and pounce, this is the way these people are and we all know it, they are predators.

I do hope the children break the cycle but it is highly unlikely they will.

ELM327 · 31-08-2018 06:40AM

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Steadily growing minority. Lots more people these days coming up with the same opinion. There's enough to be worrying about in your own life without having to worry about other people or their offspring. Someone has a child, it's their responsibility. I don't see why it should affect me, or why I should care, when I have enough worries of my own that I can actually do something about, compared to worrying about some knackers kid in which I can't do anything about.

But each to their own and all that.

Yeah I agree 100%. I'd support giving the children to someone who will care for them though, as neither I nor you nor ms cash care for them. It's fine for the first two as they are not our responsibility!

Wheeliebin30 · 31-08-2018 07:11AM

I missed the tonight show, gonna watch it today, I’m so glad he had poor leftie Lynn Boylan upset, her and her boyfriend Paul Murphy represent the left sponging do gooder bleeding heart brigade like no one else.

Two heads that instantly make you feel something once you see them.

Edgware · 31-08-2018 07:16AM

sightband wrote: »

Sorry but the likelihood is that not a single one of them will amount to sh*t in their lifetime.

And that is the worst aspect of it all. Reared to believe in a system of entitlements and fully encouraged in that belief by social workers, Pavee Point, left wing politicians etc

tomofson · 31-08-2018 07:23AM

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

I missed the tonight show, gonna watch it today, I’m so glad he had poor leftie Lynn Boylan upset, her and her boyfriend Paul Murphy represent the left sponging do gooder bleeding heart brigade like no one else.

Two heads that instantly make you feel something once you see them.

Honestly I don't get why everybody hates do gooders, they are probably the nicest people on the planet, I dont get why the term "do gooder" is used as a put down.

If everyone just wanted to do good the world would be a better place.

Family of seven sleep in Garda station Mod note post one

Comments