Do you agree to this 'voluntary contribution' the schools ask for?

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Having a uniform made things a lot easier.

Easier for who though?

Hardly for the parents who have to buy specific school clothes as well as normal clothes. Especially if they're crested and at complete rip-off prices. Even worse if they have a girl and a boy going to different schools so can't hand down jumpers etc.

The two tossers you mentioned above, their parents are worse. Morons will be morons and even with uniforms there are things like shoes, bags, phones, which then become the new thing for tossers to get obsessed about.

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

you'd be surprised then what the right amount of pressure and threat of 'not getting in next time' can play a part in changing governments minds and the way they do things

This is why we’re crap at long team thinking and getting problems solved. Pandering to the immediate irritation of the electorate.

judeboy101 wrote: »

Single sex schools outperform mixed sex in every country they co exist. Both in terms of attainment and regression to 3rd level. Tons of peer reviewed research to back it up.

Does it take into consideration private vs public schools, religious ethos and so on. Also do any of studies take into account social development.

judeboy101 wrote: »

Single sex is almost intrinsically linked to religious ethos. In most countries this means private school, but it also applies to Ireland, where many of the top performing schools are public and single sex. Unfortunately no country in the world matriculates to 3rd level using social development.

No but it is important for happy life. It's also completely bogus to compare private schools to public schools and say the difference is the gender policy.

screamer wrote: »

Course they do....they write them for the greedy book publishers.... (For a nice fee I'd bet). What I am saying is that these books should be written for and published by the education department and done at a more nominal cost. With every child in every year having the same books the price would dramatically decrease.

Not sure why you are calling the publishers greedy. They are private businesses, the dept of education are perfectly capable of hiring people to write books if they want to and making them the standard text for all schools and choose not to. In the absence of department published texts of course private publishers are going to step in.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

There is a problem here in that those who make decisions about choosing books are not the ones paying the bill at the end of the day. Teachers need to pay more attention to cost, and indeed weight of books when making those choices.

Some textbooks are better than others. Do you want your child to have the cheap but poor quality textbook or the slightly more expensive one, with all the information that is required for their course, laid out in a suitable manner?

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

I suppose in the past , teachers have been viewed as one of the most decent upstanding pillars of society and wouldn't dream of absconding it and using it for any other purpose than its intended purpose saying "thank you for your contribution, I will look after that envelope of 250euro and make sure it goes to the correct place"

I don't know any teachers responsible for collecting school contributions. Parents pay contributions to the school secretary.

Tegan Clumsy Fashion wrote: »

The school I worked in surveyed parents about the uniform as required by the Minister. Teachers had been pushing for a switch to generic jumpers to reduce costs. The expectation was that we would get lots of complaints about expenses. Instead they demanded a blazer in addition to the crested jumper, a new jumper colour, and a crested tracksuit. They also asked for a strict black shoes only policy where we had no rules about footwear at all. And ties for boys and girls when we had none at all.The reasons given were all about appearances, no concerns about costs. It's a DEIS school in one of the most disadvantaged areas of the country.

The local Educate Together secondary didn't intend to have a uniform as is the norm in their primary schools but parents insisted on one. Fashion shows and all were held to choose it. They chose a traditional uniform with a crested jumper in an unusual colour.

Same as. Parents and students were surveyed in the school I work in and overwhelmingly voted to keep the crested uniform. Parents want less hassle and rows about clothes. They don't want their kids whinging about what to wear in the morning and their kids don't want to have to compete with other kids in school. And what is alluded to above, it is a status symbol for some, the uniform identifies what school you choose to send your child to, for whatever reasons, be that the fee paying school where you've dropped €5k a year to send them there, or the local convent/CBS which would be considered a cut above the local vocational school by many.

Some parts of the uniform might be expensive but kids are wearing them 5 days a week for nine months of the year. They get more wear out of those clothes more than anything else they own. I never hear parents complain about the cost of premier league football jerseys that change every season.

judeboy101 wrote: »

Yet the top single sex public schools out perform private mixed schools. I would have thought a good education was more highly correlated to a happy life, than social development.

I would like to see the overwhelming evidence that you claim there is. I tried to Google and mostly found inconclusive stuff with trend for less and less single sex schools.

Grandeeod wrote: »

In relation to the point about no uniforms being a better solution, I'd disagree. Its not just about arguing over what outfit the child wants to wear, it also leads to crazy competition within schools over the course of 5 days. And if you think there isn't competition, well more fool you. Apart from the inevitable footwear, at least a uniform grounds things to a degree.

Thing is, how many character building tough experiences should we strive to spare our children ?

It's just another milestone we're delaying until their young adult years/20s, and then we wonder why that particular age group is worryingly juvenile and messed up.

I grew up in France with no uniform, and I survived.

Andy From Sligo wrote: »

did you used to go to school on a Saturday?

Yeah

All primary school, and then in secondary school. Some years in secondary school were a bit easier, where you might only have a double of something on a Saturday morning. Some years were like fecking torture, like double maths, then double history or something on a Saturday morning.

And double was twice 60 minutes, not 40 !

But we had the Wednesday off (full in primary, afternoon in secondary), and gaps in the timetable during the week, so you could be starting at 10 am some days, or finishing at 3pm. (instead of 4 or 5 pm)

Voluntary contribution in one of Our local secondary school in Dublin is a very hefty €600 Per child (not per family). Seemingly a lot of this goes on heating the school. Would love to know the percentsge of parents who pay this - have never seen the accounts to calculate. Add to that an expensive, crested uniform including coat, books, money for photocopying, lockers etc and it works out very Expemsive. Seems to be large discrepancy on voluntary contribution amounts between schools.