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So who's going to see the Pope?

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Comments

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    #3722
    denismc
    Registered Users Posts: 1,396 ✭✭✭denismc


    EdgeCase wrote: »
    You’ve also got the history of boys being beaten to absolute pulp by the old school system. Then far, far worse to those who were in the industrial schools and even in some cases normal boarding schools. I’ve heard stories that would really leave you feeling ill. It was mostly savage and sadistic brutality and there was a huge amount of psychological and emotional abuse too.

    Women got an extra dose of sadistic treatment due to the hang ups about sexuality and particularly pregnancy that wasn’t authorised by the church.

    The whole thing was absolutely awful though. There are generations absolutely messed up by it.

    I actually wonder is part of the reason the Irish economy was so flat until the 1990s because of how the system treated people. When you look at how school children were beaten up and made to conform to work camp or prison like conditions, abused, aggressively attacked and told constantly not to talk and not to express themselves, it basically knocked the creativity out of them

    Was the result of that several generations of underachieving, lack of self confidence and people flourishing when they were away from “the system” in other countries ?

    From what I can see modern Ireland only began to emerge in the 70s and mostly emerged in the late 80s and 90s. The fundamental changes having happened with the end of things like corporal punishment in the early 80s.

    You’d wonder what the socioeconomic costs to this country were of all of that. There was a fear factory in operation run by church and state and I don’t know what its aim was, if it even had any, but it caused huge amounts of damage.

    This post sums up Ireland in the 1980s and early 90's, spot on.


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    #3723
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,727 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Hitman3000 wrote: »
    So you saw him once, can't have been a great experience if you didn't want to see him a second time especially when he was so close to home......

    Twice actually, once at the Colosseum and then in St Peter's Square.


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    #3724
    Sardine
    Site Banned Posts: 210 ✭✭Sardine


    Hitman3000 wrote: »
    The excuses for the terrible turnout are getting funnier and funnier. Over a million went in 79 because they had nothing else to do....lol.

    I'm not making excuses for anyone, I don't believe in god, so the whole religion thing looks like a circus to me.
    I stand by it though, there was nothing else to do!


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    #3725
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    Sardine wrote:
    I'm not making excuses for anyone, I don't believe in god, so the whole religion thing looks like a circus to me. I stand by it though, there was nothing else to do!


    There was plenty to do, I grew up in the70's Ireland was a Catholic country back then and the majority of the population practiced the faith. Stand by whatever you like still doesn't make you right.


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    #3726
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    RobertKK wrote:
    Twice actually, once at the Colosseum and then in St Peter's Square.


    Yet Dublin is so much more convenient than the Colosseo or Peters sq. to Irish residents. Guess people just weren't as interested as what we were led to believe.


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    #3727
    Sardine
    Site Banned Posts: 210 ✭✭Sardine


    Hitman3000 wrote: »
    There was plenty to do, I grew up in the70's Ireland was a Catholic country back then and the majority of the population practiced the faith. Stand by whatever you like still doesn't make you right.

    Ok well I'd say a lot of people just went as it was a big event, regardless of their views on the church. I was considering going myself the other day, and may have if the weather wasn't as bad, just for the spectacle.


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    #3728
    billyhead
    Registered Users Posts: 9,543 ✭✭✭billyhead


    RobertKK wrote: »
    A lot of people would have seen the Pope in Rome and would have felt that 'see the Pope' box was ticked. I know I did.

    Likewise. Seeing the Pope is easily accessible nowadays He holds mass every Sunday in the square in the Vatican and with cheap flights that run daily to the city its not out of reach for many people to see him in the flesh.


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    #3729
    xi5yvm0owc1s2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    denismc wrote: »
    This post sums up Ireland in the 1980s and early 90's, spot on.

    Corporal punishment was banned in Irish schools in 1982.


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    #3730
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    Camila Famous Granule wrote:
    Corporal punishment was banned in Irish schools in 1982.


    It was banned but that didn't mean it stopped.


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    #3731
    Sardine
    Site Banned Posts: 210 ✭✭Sardine


    Camila Famous Granule wrote: »
    Corporal punishment was banned in Irish schools in 1982.

    I went to secondary school in the 90s and some teachers were still quite heavy handed. Open hand slaps to the head, dragging you around by your locks.
    Does that stuff still go on? Surely you'd be crucified if you laid a finger on a kid now. My parents would have encouraged the teachers to give me a slap if I was misbehaving tbh.


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    #3732
    xi5yvm0owc1s2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    Hitman3000 wrote: »
    It was banned but that didn't mean it stopped.

    It may not have stopped entirely but it was nowhere near as bad. I was in school in Ireland in the 80s and no teacher ever laid a finger on me.


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    #3733
    xi5yvm0owc1s2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    Sardine wrote: »
    I went to secondary school in the 90s and some teachers were still quite heavy handed. Open hand slaps to the head, dragging you around by your locks.
    Does that stuff still go on? Surely you'd be crucified if you laid a finger on a kid now. My parents would have encouraged the teachers to give me a slap if I was misbehaving tbh.

    As I said above, I was in school in the 80s, and I never saw anything like what you describe. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but maybe it depended on where you went to school.

    It's now completely illegal in Ireland to hit a child. Exceptions for "reasonable chastisement" were removed in 2015. Now, anyone (including a parent) who hits or slaps a child can be charged with assault.


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    #3734
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    Hitman3000 wrote: »
    It was banned but that didn't mean it stopped.

    Never had a teacher lay a finger on me or any of the other people I went to school with during the 80s or 90s.


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    #3735
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    Camila Famous Granule wrote:
    It may not have stopped entirely but it was nowhere near as bad. I was in school in Ireland in the 80s and no teacher ever laid a finger on me.


    Good for you, not everyone throughout the 80's had the same experience myself included.


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    #3736
    billyhead
    Registered Users Posts: 9,543 ✭✭✭billyhead


    Hitman3000 wrote: »
    So you saw him once, can't have been a great experience if you didn't want to see him a second time especially when he was so close to home......

    It was a great experience for me to see him in Rome. He went around in the pope mobile and you could get up close to view him. I felt there was no need to go to this one personally as the weather was muck and everything was viewable live on tv.


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    #3737
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,842 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Sardine wrote: »
    Ok well I'd say a lot of people just went as it was a big event, regardless of their views on the church. I was considering going myself the other day, and may have if the weather wasn't as bad, just for the spectacle.

    I would guarantee most of the very young were there for that reason, I know several couples who brought their children for the spectacle/event more than anything else.
    Like a trip to the zoo...with humans! :)


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    #3738
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    billyhead wrote:
    It was a great experience for me to see him in Rome. He went around in the pope mobile and you could get up close to view him. I felt there was no need to go to this one personally as the weather was muck and everything was viewable live on tv.


    Of course not.... just amuses me when the faithful had a chance to see Frank on Irish soil they stayed at home, to much bother. Whereas go to the airport security etc..etc so much easier.lol.


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    #3739
    denismc
    Registered Users Posts: 1,396 ✭✭✭denismc


    kunst nugget wrote: »
    Never had a teacher lay a finger on me or any of the other people I went to school with during the 80s or 90s.

    The school I went to there were 2 male teachers with serious anger issues, a day didn't go by without someone getting a slap.
    Even in secondary school there were a couple of male teachers with very bad tempers.
    I remember our woodwork teacher found one of the students driving nails into a bench so he actually nailed the kid to the bench by his pants!.


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    #3740
    Trasna1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 565 ✭✭✭Trasna1


    Dannyriver wrote: »
    People didn t go because they are disgusted and appalled with the criminal behaviour of the hierarchy of the church, year after year new revelations of abuse of power materialise, people have a stomach for many indiscretions in life and are open to forgiveness but only after the perpetrators not only show remorse but actively attempt to redress their wrongs. The catholic church has steadfastly refused to admit culpability for their wrongs because to do so would cost the organisation money. This is not rocket science.

    Is say that's true up to a point but imagine a world where the abuse scandals hadn't happened. There are many posters here that didn't attend, would any of you have attended had there been no abuse scandals?

    People knew about the laundries (they sent their daughters there), the industrial schools (they left their children there) the abusive priests and all the other horrific abuses of the church at the time and they still went in 79. They might not have known the breadth of it but they did know it was happening. Sure it was still possible to get a flaking from a priest in a school in the year 2000, with most of the scandals uncovered by then and the church has plenty of support at the time.


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    #3741
    Sycamore Tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 796 ✭✭✭Sycamore Tree


    Hitman3000 wrote: »
    Camila Famous Granule wrote:
    Corporal punishment was banned in Irish schools in 1982.


    It was banned but that didn't mean it stopped.
    Correct. I was 9 then and the "Christian" brothers went on using their leathers for a few years after that.
    The brothers were an angry bunch. I remember one guy getting a cut that required stitches when the psycho brother threw a glantoir at him.
    The CBS was a rough school during the 1970s and 1980s. Many brothers were alcoholics and 2 from my school were jailed for abusing boys. They always went after the defenceless or quiet ones.
    They created a culture of violence that often spread to lay teachers, especially the female ones for some odd reason.


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    #3742
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users Posts: 6,482 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    In junior and high infants (mid 1980s), one evil bitch of a teacher though it was great craic to stick her nails into the back of our necks.

    I moved into town for 5th class and the bollix teaching us thought nothing of a full punch to the back of the head and throwing dusters.

    In secondary in second half of the 1990s one prick of a young priest thought it would be fun to punch me in the study hall. I was a big 17 year old at the time. Caught up with him after school and needless to say I never heard of him touching a student again. He left the priesthood and married not long after. Hello Fr. D if you are reading this. Hope you didn’t go back to your old ways!

    All of these were good old catholic schools.


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    #3743
    billyhead
    Registered Users Posts: 9,543 ✭✭✭billyhead


    Hitman3000 wrote: »
    Of course not.... just amuses me when the faithful had a chance to see Frank on Irish soil they stayed at home, to much bother. Whereas go to the airport security etc..etc so much easier.lol.

    The trip was mostly to see the city of Rome and also see the Pope. Kill 2 birds with the one stone.


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    #3744
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,727 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Hitman3000 wrote: »
    Of course not.... just amuses me when the faithful had a chance to see Frank on Irish soil they stayed at home, to much bother. Whereas go to the airport security etc..etc so much easier.lol.

    Rome or Dublin/Knock...
    Rome or Dublin/Knock...
    Rome or Dublin/Knock...
    Rome or Dublin/Knock...

    Rome wins every time. Great place for a city break or longer holiday.


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    #3745
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    billyhead wrote:
    The trip was mostly to see the city of Rome and also see the Pope. Kill 2 birds with the one stone.


    No need to explain or justify yourself. Hey you didn't want to see him here just like 100's of thousands of others.


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    #3746
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    RobertKK wrote:
    Rome wins every time. Great place for a city break or longer holiday.


    When did Knock become a city?


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    #3747
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,727 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Hitman3000 wrote: »
    When did Knock become a city?

    It was where the Pope went to.

    When one lives down the country, it is as easy to go to Rome as it is to Dublin. I like flying so prefer trips to Dublin that means the airport has to be used...


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    #3748
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    RobertKK wrote:
    When one lives down the country, it is as easy to go to Rome as it is to Dublin. I like flying so prefer trips to Dublin that means the airport has to be used...


    It's not, factor in getting to the airport security checks time in the air waiting for luggage the far side. You're talking through a part of your anatomy other than your mouth.


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    #3749
    Dannyriver
    Registered Users Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭Dannyriver


    Trasna1 wrote: »
    Is say that's true up to a point but imagine a world where the abuse scandals hadn't happened. There are many posters here that didn't attend, would any of you have attended had there been no abuse scandals?

    People knew about the laundries (they sent their daughters there), the industrial schools (they left their children there) the abusive priests and all the other horrific abuses of the church at the time and they still went in 79. They might not have known the breadth of it but they did know it was happening. Sure it was still possible to get a flaking from a priest in a school in the year 2000, with most of the scandals uncovered by then and the church has plenty of support at the time.

    Id see that as blind obedience due to indoctrination and fear of societal shame were people not to toe the line...the magical veil started to unravel in this country IMO after the Bishop Casey scandal. All power abuse is based on the threat of harm if someone deviates in other words fear whether it be physical [mafia/drug gangs] psychological [religion/big corpoation] The church in Ireland no longer has that weapon because to stand up to the oppressor is no longer accompanied by societal shame. A Freewill for the people was practiced in 2018 that wasn't available in 1979.


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    #3750
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users Posts: 6,482 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    I’ve heard it all now. Couldn’t be arsed going to the biggest catholic event in Ireland in 40 years because I can see the pope whenever I want in Rome because it’s easier to get there then Dublin. Hahahhahahahahhahahahahaab


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    #3751
    yrreg0850
    Registered Users Posts: 531 ✭✭✭yrreg0850


    The visit to the Arus was On Saturday was a visit of one head of state (The Vatican) to another (Michael D).
    On this occasion did Ms Zapone as the official Government representitive, breach protocol?
    Ms Zapone badgerd the Pope who was there as a head of a state and, not head of a church.
    She asked him to contribute towards the cost of the Tuam babies scandal .
    The Irish state was as much to blame for this scandal . Those running the home were agents of the state and, the state should have been aware of the practices.


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