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So who's going to see the Pope?

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    #3692
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    Hitman3000 wrote: »
    If you don't think it's about money visit the Vatican and ask why was the church seeking an indemnity against abuse cases. Protecting assets is front and centre.

    Ive been.

    But realistically who is benefiting from the wealth of the Vatican? Its only useful as the trappings of power. The hierarchy arent personally enjoying the wealth to any degree that would make me jealous.

    More money gives you more power, its the power thats important though.

    I think - I just cant see how more money really benefits them - they are already rich beyond any of our wildest dreams in terms of assets.


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    #3693
    shovel
    Registered Users Posts: 438 ✭✭shovel


    We too was at the event in the Phoenix park.we came from the naas road side.the road into inchicore was blocked at the red cow.
    We were allowed through because we had bicycles.
    Can I just give the following link that I think is interesting.

    285,000 tickets were booked in the first 24 hours

    115,000 tickets in the second 24 hours.

    All the tickets were gone by July 8th.
    8 weeks before the event.

    We are talking about 300,0000 plus people not showing.

    The numbers missing imo are too big for a protest vote and I think people were put off by the transport and weather issues

    https://www.worldmeeting2018.ie/es/Media-Centre/Press-releases/All-500-000-tickets-booked-out-for-Papal-Mass-in-P


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    #3694
    Taytoland
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭Taytoland


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Taytoland wrote: »
    Brexit is a political view on the future of the United Kingdom outside the EU. Catholicism is belief in someone who created the world in seven days. A terrible comparison but you had to make it as you can't have any criticism of Catholicism.

    Its very good comparison when people such as yourself declare that the economy or economic issues aren't important when considering Brexit. Funny you should mention 'creating the world in seven days' because its equally silly to think that Britain is going to run around the planet on its own and sign new trade deals to lift it to new heights of prosperity. Feel free to continue to criticise catholicism, all i'm pointing out is that delusional opinions aren't confined to the area of religion.
    The UK making trade deals is achievable, it's something which has happened and can happen. We have the evidence to back that up. You don't have any evidence for the claims of Catholicism. The mere fact I have to point this out to you is staggering really but given the intelligence on this forum maybe it's not so surprising.


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    #3695
    Arthur Daley
    Registered Users Posts: 4,442 ✭✭✭Arthur Daley


    I know some who would have heard it was sold out in early July and gave up on it. They weren't going to go trawling through facebook or donedeal looking on the off chance. (They have busy family lives).But if they had a ticket and where set up from a few weeks out to travel to Dublin they would have gone and enjoyed it.


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    #3696
    ELM327
    Registered Users Posts: 21,458 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Arthur Daley wrote: »
    I know some who would have heard it was sold out in early July and gave up on it. They weren't going to go trawling through facebook or donedeal looking on the off chance. (They have busy family lives).But if they had a ticket and where set up from a few weeks out to travel to Dublin they would have gone and enjoyed it.
    That's funny. Because the tickets never sold out.
    It just reached the end of the timeframe with still >200k available


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    #3697
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    shovel wrote:
    The numbers missing imo are too big for a protest vote and I think people were put off by the transport and weather issues


    Great excuses but can you explain the numbers in 79? The weather for JPs gig in the park was crap and transport not as good as today.


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    #3698
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    Arthur Daley wrote:
    I know some who would have heard it was sold out in early July and gave up on it. They weren't going to go trawling through facebook or donedeal looking on the off chance. (They have busy family lives).But if they had a ticket and where set up from a few weeks out to travel to Dublin they would have gone and enjoyed it.


    What did they also stop going to Mass on a Sunday?plenty of tickets were blocked booked by parishes up and down the country for the faithful ( or as we have seen it so faithful).


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    #3699
    shovel
    Registered Users Posts: 438 ✭✭shovel


    ELM327 wrote: »
    That's funny. Because the tickets never sold out.
    It just reached the end of the timeframe with still >200k available

    But why say all tickets booked out 8 weeks before the event.

    Come on now, that makes no sense


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    #3700
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    Is there a link to show this?
    ELM327 wrote: »
    That's funny. Because the tickets never sold out.
    It just reached the end of the timeframe with still >200k available

    Where is the info below coming from?
    shovel wrote: »
    https://www.worldmeeting2018.ie/es/Media-Centre/Press-releases/All-500-000-tickets-booked-out-for-Papal-Mass-in-P


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    #3701
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,173 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Arthur Daley wrote: »
    I know some who would have heard it was sold out in early July and gave up on it. They weren't going to go trawling through facebook or donedeal looking on the off chance. (They have busy family lives).But if they had a ticket and where set up from a few weeks out to travel to Dublin they would have gone and enjoyed it.


    So they would have gone if they didnt have to make any effort? How committed to the church they are.


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    #3702
    shovel
    Registered Users Posts: 438 ✭✭shovel


    Again, they came out 8 weeks before the event and said all 500,000tickets gone.

    There were 130,000 at it.
    There were 370,000 missing.

    We were supposed to bring our two kids to it but left them at home because of the weather and walking length.
    I think people were frightened off


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    #3703
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,997 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    If 350,000 so called Roman Catholics really did have tickets and neglected to go because of a bit of rain and a walk, then the RCC
    in Ireland truly is fecked.


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    #3704
    Sardine
    Site Banned Posts: 210 ✭✭Sardine


    We are currently richer than we've ever been. Religion seems to be mostly for the poor. Some time in the future I think the Church may be popular again.


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    #3705
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    shovel wrote: »
    The numbers missing imo are too big for a protest vote and I think people were put off by the transport and weather issues
    I think this excuse rings hollow tbh. The transport set up for the event was actually excellent if people were bothered to play the game. Not being able to drive to within spitting distance of the event has never been enough to stop people before.

    82,300 people went to the hurling final and they still would have made that number even if everyone had to walk from Heuston to Croke Park in torrential rain.

    This was a failure of engagement, a complete overestimation of interest.

    The organisers predicted a number of 500,000, and everyone else fell in line with that and set up the machinations to handle that crowd.

    This is no different to a band booking Croke Park, handing out free tickets and then finding the stadium half-empty on the day.

    How many tickets were booked or taken is irrelevant; people will always take free tickets on the off-chance that they might go. The proof of the pudding is in the eating - how many are interested enough to actually go.

    They could have avoided embarrassment by asking for a token donation of €2 for each ticket booked online and distributing for free them through churches and other affiliates. They could then at least have gotten a handle well in advance of the true level of interest.


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    #3706
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,951 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    I repeat; I went looking to get 3 tickets on Sunday morning, less than three hours before the papal mass and I had them in 15 minutes.

    Getting tickets was neither difficult nor time consuming.


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    #3707
    Sardine
    Site Banned Posts: 210 ✭✭Sardine


    It's also down to the fact that there are events on here all the time now, and there's tonnes of stuff to do for young people, unlike in 1979. Most people probably would just rather stay in looking at their phones rather than do anything at all these days too.
    In 1979 I doubt they were all good practising Catholics that showed up, but it was a massive event and people would have just gone for the hell of it. Nowadays who hasn't been to a stadium gig or something similar?


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    #3708
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    seamus wrote: »
    This was a failure of engagement, a complete overestimation of interest.

    The organisers predicted a number of 500,000, and everyone else fell in line with that and set up the machinations to handle that crowd.

    +1

    They also predicted 100k people on the streets of Dublin to wave at himself going past in the popemobile and barely 20k showed up.

    Given that our 2 most recent referenda were 2/3 majorities that go completely against the churches teachings and given the abuse cover ups etc.. Tuam, etc.. etc.... It seems obvious to me that the church are not of much interest to peoples daily life in Ireland anymore.

    But the government play right into it. Why bother have all these dignitaries waiting to meet him? Why do RTE still play the Angelus?


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    #3709
    Taytoland
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭Taytoland


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    If 350,000 so called Roman Catholics really did have tickets and neglected to go because of a bit of rain and a walk, then the RCC
    in Ireland truly is fecked.

    Wasn't that many to begin with. It's a myth.


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    #3710
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    Sardine wrote: »

    ..... but it was a massive event and people would have just gone for the hell of it.


    If less than a quarter of the crowd showed up then, it would have been a flop like this one was too


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    #3711
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    Sardine wrote:
    It's also down to the fact that there are events on here all the time now, and there's tonnes of stuff to do for young people, unlike in 1979. Most people probably would just rather stay in looking at their phones rather than do anything at all these days too. In 1979 I doubt they were all good practising Catholics that showed up, but it was a massive event and people would have just gone for the hell of it. Nowadays who hasn't been to a stadium gig or something similar?


    The excuses for the terrible turnout are getting funnier and funnier. Over a million went in 79 because they had nothing else to do....lol.


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    #3712
    DEFTLEFTHAND
    Registered Users Posts: 16,500 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    Did anybody get checked for tickets?

    We went in a the the Chapelizod gate and nobody ever looked for one.
    We just had our bags searched.


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    #3713
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Hitman3000 wrote: »
    Over a million went in 79 because they had nothing else to do....lol.

    I went in 79 to see a million people in a field. It was cool.


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    #3714
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,730 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    A lot of people would have seen the Pope in Rome and would have felt that 'see the Pope' box was ticked. I know I did.


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    #3715
    Dannyriver
    Registered Users Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭Dannyriver


    Sardine wrote: »
    It's also down to the fact that there are events on here all the time now, and there's tonnes of stuff to do for young people, unlike in 1979. Most people probably would just rather stay in looking at their phones rather than do anything at all these days too.
    In 1979 I doubt they were all good practising Catholics that showed up, but it was a massive event and people would have just gone for the hell of it. Nowadays who hasn't been to a stadium gig or something similar?

    People didn t go because they are disgusted and appalled with the criminal behaviour of the hierarchy of the church, year after year new revelations of abuse of power materialise, people have a stomach for many indiscretions in life and are open to forgiveness but only after the perpetrators not only show remorse but actively attempt to redress their wrongs. The catholic church has steadfastly refused to admit culpability for their wrongs because to do so would cost the organisation money. This is not rocket science.


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    #3716
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,173 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    RobertKK wrote: »
    A lot of people would have seen the Pope in Rome and would have felt that 'see the Pope' box was ticked. I know I did.


    so why book tickets then?


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    #3717
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,730 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    so why book tickets then?

    I didn't book any tickets, and I can't speak for others.


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    #3718
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,173 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    RobertKK wrote: »
    I didn't book any tickets, and I can't speak for others.


    well not you personally but plenty of others did and then didnt bother showing up.


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    #3719
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    ....... wrote: »
    But the government play right into it. Why bother have all these dignitaries waiting to meet him? Why do RTE still play the Angelus?
    Opus Dei. They're an insidious organisation who have quietly infiltrated the top level of many companies and public bodies; the aim being to try and direct public policy with a religious slant.

    They're the main reason why public broadcasting still has a far more religious slant than society does and why the likes of the Iona Institute and Diarmuid Martin get so much speaking time with politicians and the media.

    It sounds like conspiracy theory, but they're a relatively benign organisation - i.e. they don't ultimately want to round up and euthanise people or anything.
    But if you look into it, their members and affiliates are everywhere, despite the organisation being very low-key.
    DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »
    Did anybody get checked for tickets?

    We went in a the the Chapelizod gate and nobody ever looked for one.
    We just had our bags searched.
    Straw polls from Twitter and such suggest there were no attempts by anyone, including Dublin Bus, to bother checking tickets.

    Sounds like they knew well in advance that checking tickets would be pointless because the event would be mostly empty space.


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    #3720
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    RobertKK wrote:
    A lot of people would have seen the Pope in Rome and would have felt that 'see the Pope' box was ticked. I know I did.


    So you saw him once, can't have been a great experience if you didn't want to see him a second time especially when he was so close to home......


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    #3721
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,997 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Knowing the 'entrepreneurs' that were brought in to sell this event it wouldn't surprise me if they had seen a very slow uptake on tickets at the begining and that they tried to create a 'sell out mystique' around it, in the hope there would be a clamber for tickets.

    It was a complete balls up one way or the other anyhow. You cannot create demand where there is zilch.


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