So who's going to see the Pope?

shovel · 28-08-2018 4:36pm

Again, they came out 8 weeks before the event and said all 500,000tickets gone.

There were 130,000 at it.
There were 370,000 missing.

We were supposed to bring our two kids to it but left them at home because of the weather and walking length.
I think people were frightened off

FrancieBrady · 28-08-2018 4:39pm

If 350,000 so called Roman Catholics really did have tickets and neglected to go because of a bit of rain and a walk, then the RCC
in Ireland truly is fecked.

Sardine · 28-08-2018 4:42pm

We are currently richer than we've ever been. Religion seems to be mostly for the poor. Some time in the future I think the Church may be popular again.

seamus · 28-08-2018 4:43pm

shovel wrote: »

The numbers missing imo are too big for a protest vote and I think people were put off by the transport and weather issues

I think this excuse rings hollow tbh. The transport set up for the event was actually excellent if people were bothered to play the game. Not being able to drive to within spitting distance of the event has never been enough to stop people before.

82,300 people went to the hurling final and they still would have made that number even if everyone had to walk from Heuston to Croke Park in torrential rain.

This was a failure of engagement, a complete overestimation of interest.

The organisers predicted a number of 500,000, and everyone else fell in line with that and set up the machinations to handle that crowd.

This is no different to a band booking Croke Park, handing out free tickets and then finding the stadium half-empty on the day.

How many tickets were booked or taken is irrelevant; people will always take free tickets on the off-chance that they might go. The proof of the pudding is in the eating - how many are interested enough to actually go.

They could have avoided embarrassment by asking for a token donation of €2 for each ticket booked online and distributing for free them through churches and other affiliates. They could then at least have gotten a handle well in advance of the true level of interest.

B0jangles · 28-08-2018 4:45pm

I repeat; I went looking to get 3 tickets on Sunday morning, less than three hours before the papal mass and I had them in 15 minutes.

Getting tickets was neither difficult nor time consuming.

Sardine · 28-08-2018 4:47pm

It's also down to the fact that there are events on here all the time now, and there's tonnes of stuff to do for young people, unlike in 1979. Most people probably would just rather stay in looking at their phones rather than do anything at all these days too.
In 1979 I doubt they were all good practising Catholics that showed up, but it was a massive event and people would have just gone for the hell of it. Nowadays who hasn't been to a stadium gig or something similar?

....... · 28-08-2018 4:49pm

seamus wrote: »

This was a failure of engagement, a complete overestimation of interest.

The organisers predicted a number of 500,000, and everyone else fell in line with that and set up the machinations to handle that crowd.

+1

They also predicted 100k people on the streets of Dublin to wave at himself going past in the popemobile and barely 20k showed up.

Given that our 2 most recent referenda were 2/3 majorities that go completely against the churches teachings and given the abuse cover ups etc.. Tuam, etc.. etc.... It seems obvious to me that the church are not of much interest to peoples daily life in Ireland anymore.

But the government play right into it. Why bother have all these dignitaries waiting to meet him? Why do RTE still play the Angelus?

Taytoland · 28-08-2018 4:55pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If 350,000 so called Roman Catholics really did have tickets and neglected to go because of a bit of rain and a walk, then the RCC
in Ireland truly is fecked.

Wasn't that many to begin with. It's a myth.

gctest50 · 28-08-2018 4:55pm

Sardine wrote: »

..... but it was a massive event and people would have just gone for the hell of it.

If less than a quarter of the crowd showed up then, it would have been a flop like this one was too

Hitman3000 · 28-08-2018 4:56pm

Sardine wrote:

It's also down to the fact that there are events on here all the time now, and there's tonnes of stuff to do for young people, unlike in 1979. Most people probably would just rather stay in looking at their phones rather than do anything at all these days too. In 1979 I doubt they were all good practising Catholics that showed up, but it was a massive event and people would have just gone for the hell of it. Nowadays who hasn't been to a stadium gig or something similar?

The excuses for the terrible turnout are getting funnier and funnier. Over a million went in 79 because they had nothing else to do....lol.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 28-08-2018 4:57pm

Did anybody get checked for tickets?

We went in a the the Chapelizod gate and nobody ever looked for one.
We just had our bags searched.

Zubeneschamali · 28-08-2018 5:01pm

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Over a million went in 79 because they had nothing else to do....lol.

I went in 79 to see a million people in a field. It was cool.

RobertKK · 28-08-2018 5:01pm

A lot of people would have seen the Pope in Rome and would have felt that 'see the Pope' box was ticked. I know I did.

Dannyriver · 28-08-2018 5:02pm

Sardine wrote: »

It's also down to the fact that there are events on here all the time now, and there's tonnes of stuff to do for young people, unlike in 1979. Most people probably would just rather stay in looking at their phones rather than do anything at all these days too.
In 1979 I doubt they were all good practising Catholics that showed up, but it was a massive event and people would have just gone for the hell of it. Nowadays who hasn't been to a stadium gig or something similar?

People didn t go because they are disgusted and appalled with the criminal behaviour of the hierarchy of the church, year after year new revelations of abuse of power materialise, people have a stomach for many indiscretions in life and are open to forgiveness but only after the perpetrators not only show remorse but actively attempt to redress their wrongs. The catholic church has steadfastly refused to admit culpability for their wrongs because to do so would cost the organisation money. This is not rocket science.

ohnonotgmail · 28-08-2018 5:02pm

RobertKK wrote: »

A lot of people would have seen the Pope in Rome and would have felt that 'see the Pope' box was ticked. I know I did.

so why book tickets then?

RobertKK · 28-08-2018 5:03pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

so why book tickets then?

I didn't book any tickets, and I can't speak for others.

ohnonotgmail · 28-08-2018 5:06pm

RobertKK wrote: »

I didn't book any tickets, and I can't speak for others.

well not you personally but plenty of others did and then didnt bother showing up.

seamus · 28-08-2018 5:07pm

....... wrote: »

But the government play right into it. Why bother have all these dignitaries waiting to meet him? Why do RTE still play the Angelus?

Opus Dei. They're an insidious organisation who have quietly infiltrated the top level of many companies and public bodies; the aim being to try and direct public policy with a religious slant.

They're the main reason why public broadcasting still has a far more religious slant than society does and why the likes of the Iona Institute and Diarmuid Martin get so much speaking time with politicians and the media.

It sounds like conspiracy theory, but they're a relatively benign organisation - i.e. they don't ultimately want to round up and euthanise people or anything.
But if you look into it, their members and affiliates are everywhere, despite the organisation being very low-key.

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Did anybody get checked for tickets?

We went in a the the Chapelizod gate and nobody ever looked for one.
We just had our bags searched.

Straw polls from Twitter and such suggest there were no attempts by anyone, including Dublin Bus, to bother checking tickets.

Sounds like they knew well in advance that checking tickets would be pointless because the event would be mostly empty space.

Hitman3000 · 28-08-2018 5:07pm

RobertKK wrote:

A lot of people would have seen the Pope in Rome and would have felt that 'see the Pope' box was ticked. I know I did.

So you saw him once, can't have been a great experience if you didn't want to see him a second time especially when he was so close to home......

FrancieBrady · 28-08-2018 5:08pm

Knowing the 'entrepreneurs' that were brought in to sell this event it wouldn't surprise me if they had seen a very slow uptake on tickets at the begining and that they tried to create a 'sell out mystique' around it, in the hope there would be a clamber for tickets.

It was a complete balls up one way or the other anyhow. You cannot create demand where there is zilch.

denismc · 28-08-2018 5:12pm

EdgeCase wrote: »

You’ve also got the history of boys being beaten to absolute pulp by the old school system. Then far, far worse to those who were in the industrial schools and even in some cases normal boarding schools. I’ve heard stories that would really leave you feeling ill. It was mostly savage and sadistic brutality and there was a huge amount of psychological and emotional abuse too.

Women got an extra dose of sadistic treatment due to the hang ups about sexuality and particularly pregnancy that wasn’t authorised by the church.

The whole thing was absolutely awful though. There are generations absolutely messed up by it.

I actually wonder is part of the reason the Irish economy was so flat until the 1990s because of how the system treated people. When you look at how school children were beaten up and made to conform to work camp or prison like conditions, abused, aggressively attacked and told constantly not to talk and not to express themselves, it basically knocked the creativity out of them

Was the result of that several generations of underachieving, lack of self confidence and people flourishing when they were away from “the system” in other countries ?

From what I can see modern Ireland only began to emerge in the 70s and mostly emerged in the late 80s and 90s. The fundamental changes having happened with the end of things like corporal punishment in the early 80s.

You’d wonder what the socioeconomic costs to this country were of all of that. There was a fear factory in operation run by church and state and I don’t know what its aim was, if it even had any, but it caused huge amounts of damage.

This post sums up Ireland in the 1980s and early 90's, spot on.

RobertKK · 28-08-2018 5:20pm

Hitman3000 wrote: »

So you saw him once, can't have been a great experience if you didn't want to see him a second time especially when he was so close to home......

Twice actually, once at the Colosseum and then in St Peter's Square.

Sardine · 28-08-2018 5:31pm

Hitman3000 wrote: »

The excuses for the terrible turnout are getting funnier and funnier. Over a million went in 79 because they had nothing else to do....lol.

I'm not making excuses for anyone, I don't believe in god, so the whole religion thing looks like a circus to me.
I stand by it though, there was nothing else to do!

Hitman3000 · 28-08-2018 5:36pm

Sardine wrote:

I'm not making excuses for anyone, I don't believe in god, so the whole religion thing looks like a circus to me. I stand by it though, there was nothing else to do!

There was plenty to do, I grew up in the70's Ireland was a Catholic country back then and the majority of the population practiced the faith. Stand by whatever you like still doesn't make you right.

Hitman3000 · 28-08-2018 5:38pm

RobertKK wrote:

Twice actually, once at the Colosseum and then in St Peter's Square.

Yet Dublin is so much more convenient than the Colosseo or Peters sq. to Irish residents. Guess people just weren't as interested as what we were led to believe.

Sardine · 28-08-2018 5:38pm

Hitman3000 wrote: »

There was plenty to do, I grew up in the70's Ireland was a Catholic country back then and the majority of the population practiced the faith. Stand by whatever you like still doesn't make you right.

Ok well I'd say a lot of people just went as it was a big event, regardless of their views on the church. I was considering going myself the other day, and may have if the weather wasn't as bad, just for the spectacle.

billyhead · 28-08-2018 5:43pm

RobertKK wrote: »

A lot of people would have seen the Pope in Rome and would have felt that 'see the Pope' box was ticked. I know I did.

Likewise. Seeing the Pope is easily accessible nowadays He holds mass every Sunday in the square in the Vatican and with cheap flights that run daily to the city its not out of reach for many people to see him in the flesh.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b · 28-08-2018 5:45pm

denismc wrote: »

This post sums up Ireland in the 1980s and early 90's, spot on.

Corporal punishment was banned in Irish schools in 1982.

Hitman3000 · 28-08-2018 5:47pm

Camila Famous Granule wrote:

Corporal punishment was banned in Irish schools in 1982.

It was banned but that didn't mean it stopped.

Sardine · 28-08-2018 5:48pm

Camila Famous Granule wrote: »

Corporal punishment was banned in Irish schools in 1982.

I went to secondary school in the 90s and some teachers were still quite heavy handed. Open hand slaps to the head, dragging you around by your locks.
Does that stuff still go on? Surely you'd be crucified if you laid a finger on a kid now. My parents would have encouraged the teachers to give me a slap if I was misbehaving tbh.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b · 28-08-2018 5:50pm

Hitman3000 wrote: »

It was banned but that didn't mean it stopped.

It may not have stopped entirely but it was nowhere near as bad. I was in school in Ireland in the 80s and no teacher ever laid a finger on me.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b · 28-08-2018 5:53pm

Sardine wrote: »

I went to secondary school in the 90s and some teachers were still quite heavy handed. Open hand slaps to the head, dragging you around by your locks.
Does that stuff still go on? Surely you'd be crucified if you laid a finger on a kid now. My parents would have encouraged the teachers to give me a slap if I was misbehaving tbh.

As I said above, I was in school in the 80s, and I never saw anything like what you describe. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but maybe it depended on where you went to school.

It's now completely illegal in Ireland to hit a child. Exceptions for "reasonable chastisement" were removed in 2015. Now, anyone (including a parent) who hits or slaps a child can be charged with assault.

kunst nugget · 28-08-2018 5:56pm

Hitman3000 wrote: »

It was banned but that didn't mean it stopped.

Never had a teacher lay a finger on me or any of the other people I went to school with during the 80s or 90s.

Hitman3000 · 28-08-2018 5:59pm

Camila Famous Granule wrote:

It may not have stopped entirely but it was nowhere near as bad. I was in school in Ireland in the 80s and no teacher ever laid a finger on me.

Good for you, not everyone throughout the 80's had the same experience myself included.

billyhead · 28-08-2018 6:03pm

Hitman3000 wrote: »

So you saw him once, can't have been a great experience if you didn't want to see him a second time especially when he was so close to home......

It was a great experience for me to see him in Rome. He went around in the pope mobile and you could get up close to view him. I felt there was no need to go to this one personally as the weather was muck and everything was viewable live on tv.

FrancieBrady · 28-08-2018 6:04pm

Sardine wrote: »

Ok well I'd say a lot of people just went as it was a big event, regardless of their views on the church. I was considering going myself the other day, and may have if the weather wasn't as bad, just for the spectacle.

I would guarantee most of the very young were there for that reason, I know several couples who brought their children for the spectacle/event more than anything else.
Like a trip to the zoo...with humans!

Hitman3000 · 28-08-2018 6:07pm

billyhead wrote:

It was a great experience for me to see him in Rome. He went around in the pope mobile and you could get up close to view him. I felt there was no need to go to this one personally as the weather was muck and everything was viewable live on tv.

Of course not.... just amuses me when the faithful had a chance to see Frank on Irish soil they stayed at home, to much bother. Whereas go to the airport security etc..etc so much easier.lol.

denismc · 28-08-2018 6:10pm

kunst nugget wrote: »

Never had a teacher lay a finger on me or any of the other people I went to school with during the 80s or 90s.

The school I went to there were 2 male teachers with serious anger issues, a day didn't go by without someone getting a slap.
Even in secondary school there were a couple of male teachers with very bad tempers.
I remember our woodwork teacher found one of the students driving nails into a bench so he actually nailed the kid to the bench by his pants!.

Trasna1 · 28-08-2018 6:13pm

Dannyriver wrote: »

People didn t go because they are disgusted and appalled with the criminal behaviour of the hierarchy of the church, year after year new revelations of abuse of power materialise, people have a stomach for many indiscretions in life and are open to forgiveness but only after the perpetrators not only show remorse but actively attempt to redress their wrongs. The catholic church has steadfastly refused to admit culpability for their wrongs because to do so would cost the organisation money. This is not rocket science.

Is say that's true up to a point but imagine a world where the abuse scandals hadn't happened. There are many posters here that didn't attend, would any of you have attended had there been no abuse scandals?

People knew about the laundries (they sent their daughters there), the industrial schools (they left their children there) the abusive priests and all the other horrific abuses of the church at the time and they still went in 79. They might not have known the breadth of it but they did know it was happening. Sure it was still possible to get a flaking from a priest in a school in the year 2000, with most of the scandals uncovered by then and the church has plenty of support at the time.

Sycamore Tree · 28-08-2018 6:14pm

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Camila Famous Granule wrote:

Corporal punishment was banned in Irish schools in 1982.

It was banned but that didn't mean it stopped.

Correct. I was 9 then and the "Christian" brothers went on using their leathers for a few years after that.
The brothers were an angry bunch. I remember one guy getting a cut that required stitches when the psycho brother threw a glantoir at him.
The CBS was a rough school during the 1970s and 1980s. Many brothers were alcoholics and 2 from my school were jailed for abusing boys. They always went after the defenceless or quiet ones.
They created a culture of violence that often spread to lay teachers, especially the female ones for some odd reason.

Fighting Tao · 28-08-2018 6:17pm

In junior and high infants (mid 1980s), one evil bitch of a teacher though it was great craic to stick her nails into the back of our necks.

I moved into town for 5th class and the bollix teaching us thought nothing of a full punch to the back of the head and throwing dusters.

In secondary in second half of the 1990s one prick of a young priest thought it would be fun to punch me in the study hall. I was a big 17 year old at the time. Caught up with him after school and needless to say I never heard of him touching a student again. He left the priesthood and married not long after. Hello Fr. D if you are reading this. Hope you didn’t go back to your old ways!

All of these were good old catholic schools.

billyhead · 28-08-2018 6:24pm

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Of course not.... just amuses me when the faithful had a chance to see Frank on Irish soil they stayed at home, to much bother. Whereas go to the airport security etc..etc so much easier.lol.

The trip was mostly to see the city of Rome and also see the Pope. Kill 2 birds with the one stone.

RobertKK · 28-08-2018 6:25pm

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Of course not.... just amuses me when the faithful had a chance to see Frank on Irish soil they stayed at home, to much bother. Whereas go to the airport security etc..etc so much easier.lol.

Rome or Dublin/Knock...
Rome or Dublin/Knock...
Rome or Dublin/Knock...
Rome or Dublin/Knock...

Rome wins every time. Great place for a city break or longer holiday.

Hitman3000 · 28-08-2018 6:26pm

billyhead wrote:

The trip was mostly to see the city of Rome and also see the Pope. Kill 2 birds with the one stone.

No need to explain or justify yourself. Hey you didn't want to see him here just like 100's of thousands of others.

Hitman3000 · 28-08-2018 6:27pm

RobertKK wrote:

Rome wins every time. Great place for a city break or longer holiday.

When did Knock become a city?

RobertKK · 28-08-2018 6:31pm

Hitman3000 wrote: »

When did Knock become a city?

It was where the Pope went to.

When one lives down the country, it is as easy to go to Rome as it is to Dublin. I like flying so prefer trips to Dublin that means the airport has to be used...

Hitman3000 · 28-08-2018 6:33pm

RobertKK wrote:

When one lives down the country, it is as easy to go to Rome as it is to Dublin. I like flying so prefer trips to Dublin that means the airport has to be used...

It's not, factor in getting to the airport security checks time in the air waiting for luggage the far side. You're talking through a part of your anatomy other than your mouth.

Dannyriver · 28-08-2018 6:34pm

Trasna1 wrote: »

Is say that's true up to a point but imagine a world where the abuse scandals hadn't happened. There are many posters here that didn't attend, would any of you have attended had there been no abuse scandals?

People knew about the laundries (they sent their daughters there), the industrial schools (they left their children there) the abusive priests and all the other horrific abuses of the church at the time and they still went in 79. They might not have known the breadth of it but they did know it was happening. Sure it was still possible to get a flaking from a priest in a school in the year 2000, with most of the scandals uncovered by then and the church has plenty of support at the time.

Id see that as blind obedience due to indoctrination and fear of societal shame were people not to toe the line...the magical veil started to unravel in this country IMO after the Bishop Casey scandal. All power abuse is based on the threat of harm if someone deviates in other words fear whether it be physical [mafia/drug gangs] psychological [religion/big corpoation] The church in Ireland no longer has that weapon because to stand up to the oppressor is no longer accompanied by societal shame. A Freewill for the people was practiced in 2018 that wasn't available in 1979.

Fighting Tao · 28-08-2018 6:36pm

I’ve heard it all now. Couldn’t be arsed going to the biggest catholic event in Ireland in 40 years because I can see the pope whenever I want in Rome because it’s easier to get there then Dublin. Hahahhahahahahhahahahahaab

yrreg0850 · 28-08-2018 7:01pm

The visit to the Arus was On Saturday was a visit of one head of state (The Vatican) to another (Michael D).
On this occasion did Ms Zapone as the official Government representitive, breach protocol?
Ms Zapone badgerd the Pope who was there as a head of a state and, not head of a church.
She asked him to contribute towards the cost of the Tuam babies scandal .
The Irish state was as much to blame for this scandal . Those running the home were agents of the state and, the state should have been aware of the practices.

So who's going to see the Pope?

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