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Should we protest against the pope's visit?

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Comments

  • #1982
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,242 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    irishman86 wrote: »
    Fixed your post buddy, i know sometimes its tough to type through tears

    Err, the protestors are not going to see the pope. You appear rather confused.

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • #1983
    irishman86
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,814 ✭✭✭irishman86


    B0jangles wrote: »
    Listen, you go off and have a read of the wikipedia page about the structure of the catholic church and come back to the discussion when you have even the barest bones of an understanding of how it works, ok?

    Oh dear, thats all you have
    I dont know why i expected more.......oh wait i didnt :pac:


  • #1984
    irishman86
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,814 ✭✭✭irishman86


    Discodog wrote: »
    Is that all you can manage ? If you know abuse is happening - the Pope did & you just move the abuser somewhere else to carry on abusing - which the Pope did & then refuse to hand over the documentation you are giving the abusers permission.

    :rolleyes: was all it deserved


  • #1985
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,242 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Irish Kings wrote: »
    Why do the current authorities in the state refuse to arrest a single Irish bishop for questioning or issue a single warrant to search their files ?

    The files in the Vatican that Francis won't release?

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • #1986
    Odhinn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,471 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    irishman86 wrote: »
    I think people are protesting because they are stupid, im highlighting that Francis has zero connection to those past crimes

    Do you understand how the church works
    Or history
    Like i said, Barack should be ashamed how those Negro boys were treated
    The queen has to look how she handled the famine
    etc etc etc


    He's the head of the organisation responsible.


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  • #1987
    Discodog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,011 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    Why won't Francis release the records relating to abuse? All bishops/cardinals were instructed to forward files on all allegations of abuse to the Vatican.

    Why won't Francis turn over to national police forces all the alleged abusers and abuse cover uppers hiding out in the Vatican? The Vatican has no extradition treaties. It's a safe haven for abusers hiding from justice.

    Why won't Francis compel the religious orders in Ireland to pay the compensation they agreed?

    Those are three things he could do right now, but won't.

    He has good PR though...

    Not always

    Francis had strongly defended Barros during his January trip to Chile, calling the accusations against him “calumny”. He claimed to have never heard from victims about Barros, even though he had received in 2015 a letter from Cruz detailing Barros’s wrongdoing.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/02/pope-francis-chile-sexual-abuse-scandal-part-of-problem


  • #1988
    Irish Kings
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 494 ✭✭Irish Kings


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    Why won't Francis release the records relating to abuse? All bishops/cardinals were instructed to forward files on all allegations of abuse to the Vatican.

    Why won't Francis turn over to national police forces all the alleged abusers and abuse cover uppers hiding out in the Vatican? The Vatican has no extradition treaties. It's a safe haven for abusers hiding from justice.

    Why won't Francis compel the religious orders in Ireland to pay the compensation they agreed?

    Those are three things he could do right now, but won't.

    He has good PR though...

    Why would the Church do anything when the current authorities in the state refuse to arrest a single Irish bishop for questioning or issue a single warrant to search their files ? This is what gets to me. Of course criminals are going to get away with, and continue to get away with perverting the course of justice in the future if the current Irish authorities won't administer the criminal justice system and provide some justice for the victims. There seems to be a media blackout on this glaring omission as well.


  • #1989
    Odhinn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,471 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    irishman86 wrote: »
    No the queens predecessors did far worse, you know like abuse our people for centuries :rolleyes:
    I cringe over you guys


    You make no sense whatsoever.


  • #1990
    tylercheribini
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,015 ✭✭✭tylercheribini


    Irish Kings wrote: »
    Why do the current authorities in the state refuse to arrest a single Irish bishop for questioning or issue a single warrant to search their files ? This is what gets to me. Of course criminals are going to get away with, and continue to get away with perverting the course of justice in the future if the current Irish authorities won't administer the criminal justice system and provide some justice for the victims. There seems to be a media blackout on this glaring omission as well.

    The Vatican is a sovereign state with the financial/politcal resources and diplomatic red tape to obstruct even the most determined investigations. Taking them on is a completely different kettle of fish to your average criminal gang.


  • #1991
    Discodog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,011 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    irishman86 wrote: »
    :rolleyes: was all it deserved

    ?


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  • #1992
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,298 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    An_Toirpin wrote:
    What mealy-mouthed equivocation? I am just not seeing that. At this stage I dont see how many more apologies are needed. They have been for years. All the signs are that the efforts to stamp out abuse 15 odd years ago worked.

    Your kidding right?

    This pope criticised Chilly abuse victims when he had evidence that they were all telling the truth. He only came out & apologised to them when it came to light that he always knew that they were telling the truth.

    He is part of the cover up generation. Nothing has changed


  • #1993
    irishman86
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,814 ✭✭✭irishman86


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    Why won't Francis release the records relating to abuse? All bishops/cardinals were instructed to forward files on all allegations of abuse to the Vatican.

    Why won't Francis turn over to national police forces all the alleged abusers and abuse cover uppers hiding out in the Vatican? The Vatican has no extradition treaties. It's a safe haven for abusers hiding from justice.

    Why won't Francis compel the religious orders in Ireland to pay the compensation they agreed?

    Those are three things he could do right now, but won't.

    He has good PR though...

    Does Francis have them, those are three things youve made up in your head
    and not how the law works


  • #1994
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    That's what I find particularly irritating - church apologists keep pointing to Francis like
    'Look how SMILEY he is!'
    'Look how FRIENDLY he is!'

    Like he's some lovely, unworldly little rural parish priest who won some kind of secret lottery and got to be pope by chance - he rose to the top of the church hierarchy, and you don't do that by being apolitical and unworldly; that takes serious drive and ambition.

    The cardinals looked at him and thought he was a safe pair of hands from their perspective, and their perspective is most definitely not one shared by the vast majority of people.


  • #1995
    irishman86
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,814 ✭✭✭irishman86


    Discodog wrote: »
    An Argentine that was a Cardinal before. Are you really suggesting that a Cardinal wouldn't know about a huge issue affecting the Church ?

    Are you suggesting he did, a whole lot of guessing, which is a stupid way to decide anything


  • #1996
    irishman86
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,814 ✭✭✭irishman86


    Odhinn wrote: »
    He's the head of the organisation responsible.

    Similar to the queen and Barack when he was here. Where was the mass protest, i for one am furious that we didnt have one


  • #1997
    Irish Kings
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 494 ✭✭Irish Kings


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    The files in the Vatican that Francis won't release?

    The state cannot prosecute people outside of Ireland.

    You think there is no files sitting in Irish bishops offices ? Or no evidence the Irish bishops conspired to pervert the course of justice, but the state sure has hell can prosecute the criminal Irish bishops, but yet it does nothing. That's the scandal that is currently being silenced. Or are you one of those Irish Church / State apologists that makes every excuse they can think of, and thinks the Irish Bishops committed no crimes and the Irish state should not enforce the criminal justice system against them and provide the victims with some justice ?


  • #1998
    irishman86
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,814 ✭✭✭irishman86


    Odhinn wrote: »
    You make no sense whatsoever.

    Oh dear, kinda proving my original post buddy


  • #1999
    Odhinn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,471 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    irishman86 wrote: »
    Similar to the queen and Barack when he was here. Where was the mass protest, i for one am furious that we didnt have one


    No comparison whatsoever. Which is why there weren't protests.


  • #2000
    Odhinn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,471 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    irishman86 wrote: »
    Oh dear, kinda proving my original post buddy


    We're not 'buddys'.


  • #2001
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    irishman86 wrote: »
    Oh dear, kinda proving my original post buddy

    But you appear to have no arguments beyond calling people idiots or saying they are stupid.

    Are you actually able to articulate anything more complex than that?


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  • #2002
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,876 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    irishman86 wrote: »
    Does Francis have them, those are three things youve made up in your head
    and not how the law works
    If Frank gave a toss about the law then as the bishop of Rome he would introduce mandatory police reporting to the Italian RCC. But he hasn't introduced this for some reason. In fact has he introduced something as simple as mandatory reporting anywhere?
    Did his predecessor? Or his predecessor? Etc.
    Actions speak louder than words!


  • #2003
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,298 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    Looking at RTE footage and wow what a small crowd. Only one deep. I don't know numbers but it hasn't a patch on Paddy's day parade numbers


  • #2004
    irishman86
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,814 ✭✭✭irishman86


    Odhinn wrote: »
    No comparison whatsoever. Which is why there weren't protests.
    Odhinn wrote: »
    We're not 'buddys'.
    its exactly the same, the fact you cant see it buddy is hilarious. Like i said i look forward to our next protest, i feel we should protest GAA hogging all the good athletes, it makes as much sense as these nonsensical protests
    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    So it's fine to criticise the queen for what the British did, yet it's not okay to criticise the pope for what the church did in the much more recent past?

    I think protesting them both are stupid, you really dont deserve the title Doctor :pac:


  • #2005
    irishman86
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,814 ✭✭✭irishman86


    B0jangles wrote: »
    But you appear to have no arguments beyond calling people idiots or saying they are stupid.

    Are you actually able to articulate anything more complex than that?

    It would be a waste of time here, i feel the best way is straight to the point and hope that they understand. I tried to make a comparison between past history and it went straight over peoples heads


  • #2006
    tylercheribini
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,015 ✭✭✭tylercheribini


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    Looking at RTE footage and wow what a small crowd. Only one deep. I don't know numbers but it hasn't a patch on Paddy's day parade numbers

    Woefully misjudged visit, I really wonder what the end game of it was? A call to arms for the ever shrinking ultra conservative religious element of Irish society?


  • #2007
    Irish Kings
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 494 ✭✭Irish Kings


    Seth Brundle wrote: »
    If Frank gave a toss about the law then as the bishop of Rome he would introduce mandatory police reporting to the Italian RCC. But he hasn't introduced this for some reason. In fact has he introduced something as simple as mandatory reporting anywhere?
    Did his predecessor? Or his predecessor? Etc.
    Actions speak louder than words!

    and if the Irish authorities really gave a toss they would arrest the Irish bishops responsible for conspiring to pervert the course of justice in Ireland.


  • #2008
    Discodog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,011 ✭✭✭✭Discodog


    irishman86 wrote: »
    Are you suggesting he did, a whole lot of guessing, which is a stupid way to decide anything

    Ask the people in Chile


  • #2009
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    irishman86 wrote: »
    It would be a waste of time here, i feel the best way is straight to the point and hope that they understand. I tried to make a comparison between past history and it went straight over peoples heads


    Ah, I see, you're only pretending to be incapable of anything approaching a coherent argument. Your performance is extremely convincing.


  • #2010
    circadian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,444 ✭✭✭circadian


    irishman86 wrote: »
    It would be a waste of time here, i feel the best way is straight to the point and hope that they understand. I tried to make a comparison between past history and it went straight over peoples heads

    Are you honestly trying to defend an organisation that has covered up child sex abuse, needless family separation, slave labour amongst other things that contravene the charter of human rights?

    Seriously? The whatabouttery is poor and then the insults to try and deflect instead of having an actual coherent response makes me think you're on the wind up or a complete arsehole.


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  • #2011
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    circadian wrote: »
    Are you honestly trying to defend an organisation that has covered up child sex abuse, needless family separation, slave labour amongst other things that contravene the charter of human rights?

    Seriously? The whatabouttery is poor and then the insults to try and deflect instead of having an actual coherent response makes me think you're on the wind up or a complete arsehole.


    I don't think they are, I think this is supposed to be very funny.

    A hilarious joke about the continuing coverup of institutional child rape.


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