NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

ArrBee · 23-08-2018 10:12AM

Ultimanemo wrote: »

True, I contacted them and they said they use Vodafone network for 100G / month plan, which works out at € 40/ month for 18 months if you consider the promotional 9 months, while Vodafone charges € 45 / month for 150G and €55 / month for 250G, with 24 month contract, all in all Vodafone is better choice, It is not fair trade to mystify the atmosphere and confuse people then selling them the same product with another name. Imagine is doing the same, they call 4G "Fibre LTE"

They and their plans were relevant perhaps a year ago when there werent many options for 4G data with medium data caps.
Now that Vodafone actually offer something higher than 50GB, Eir offer something, and three have increased their limit and charge less, I agree... Why would you bother going with rural?

It's sad to see them adding confusion to the public arena by suggesting that they may be able to plug a gap left by SIRO and OpenEir in their fibre roll outs.

Gonzo · 23-08-2018 12:43PM

9726_9726 wrote: »

Dialup was connecting you to fibre.

And as Marlow says, your average Imagine site is not on fibre backaul. Most on PTP wireless. They used to use a cheap-ass Stratex re-brand, now back to the Israeli made Ceragon IP20C, which is a competent radio but it ain't fibre. So they aren't "bringing fibre" anywhere. Imagine don't own a single Km of fibre.

sounds like Imagine really is a shoestring operation if they are using cheap, well outdated equipment and calling it a true fibre experience. No wonder there are so many people getting single digit speeds and lag spikes. Perhaps their equipment in Wicklow is better managed compared to many other masts.

Marlow · 23-08-2018 01:18PM

Gonzo wrote: »

sounds like Imagine really is a shoestring operation if they are using cheap, well outdated equipment and calling it a true fibre experience. No wonder there are so many people getting single digit speeds and lag spikes. Perhaps their equipment in Wicklow is better managed compared to many other masts.

Their LTE solution is one of the early generations with 150-200 Mbit/s max aggregated bandwidth per sector. So, even at that, they're not at the cutting edge.

/M

ED E · 23-08-2018 03:51PM

From a nationwide PoV though what Imagine is trying to do, if very poorly, is a good move. Fixed line reach/rates are increasing but with the govt unable to sweeten the NBP pot enough to function using our valuable spectrum well should be a priority.

Ideally we should have every allocation being used to 100% of the functional geographic coverage possible allowing for guard areas and bands. Facilitate this. Imagine have a chunk of high frequency TDD to play with + the two other bands that followed. They've paid a chunk for it, its in our interest that they deploy the crap out if even if personally not using it. Much better to have the userbase in a given area spread across a Three 800Mhz, Three 1800Mhz and Imagine 2600Mhz sectors vs all on one Three 800Mhz sector struggling to reach 1Mb.

ArrBee · 23-08-2018 05:32PM

ED E wrote: »

From a nationwide PoV though what Imagine is trying to do, if very poorly, is a good move. Fixed line reach/rates are increasing but with the govt unable to sweeten the NBP pot enough to function using our valuable spectrum well should be a priority.

Ideally we should have every allocation being used to 100% of the functional geographic coverage possible allowing for guard areas and bands. Facilitate this. Imagine have a chunk of high frequency TDD to play with + the two other bands that followed. They've paid a chunk for it, its in our interest that they deploy the crap out if even if personally not using it. Much better to have the userbase in a given area spread across a Three 800Mhz, Three 1800Mhz and Imagine 2600Mhz sectors vs all on one Three 800Mhz sector struggling to reach 1Mb.

How does incoming 5G impact what you propose?
Like would it be better to make sure any wireless solution supplementing fixed line was built around 5G from the outset?

I'm not familiar with the spectrum requirements for either, so it may be a redundant question...

Marlow · 23-08-2018 05:44PM

ArrBee wrote: »

How does incoming 5G impact what you propose?
Like would it be better to make sure any wireless solution supplementing fixed line was built around 5G from the outset?

5G has no impact. There is no gain for rural areas from 5G. It's just used as the next best buzz word to take attention from failure.

5G is designed for urban short range rollout with a lot more bandwidth per user. It is not replacing 4G. You need a 5G base every couple 100m and fibre to feed it, which we don't have in rural areas. We can't even max the 4G potential yet.

Also, most telcos haven't even paid their 3G and 4G investments off yet. Even the CEO of Huawei was saying, that they expect very few Telcos to invest in a wide spread 5G deployment because of that.

Ergo: 5G does NOTHING for the NBP.

/M

Ultimanemo · 23-08-2018 05:59PM

[font=tablet-gothic, arial]‘Google wants to put driverless cars on the roads – we will not have driverless cars unless we have ubiquitous 5G coverage’[/font]
^{[font=tablet-gothic, arial]– DENIS NAUGHTEN[/font]}
^{[font=tablet-gothic, arial]https://www.siliconrepublic.com/comms/ireland-5g[/font]}

turbbo · 23-08-2018 06:05PM

Ultimanemo wrote: »

[font=tablet-gothic, arial]‘Google wants to put driverless cars on the roads – we will not have driverless cars unless we have ubiquitous 5G coverage’[/font]
^{[font=tablet-gothic, arial]– DENIS NAUGHTEN[/font]}
^{[font=tablet-gothic, arial]https://www.siliconrepublic.com/comms/ireland-5g[/font]}

you'll be waitin on them driverless cars

Marlow · 23-08-2018 06:09PM

And Naughten's track record so far shows what the chances of that ACTUALLY happening are ?

I mean .. he's again trying to promote stuff, that he clearly doesn't even have to do with or is in control of. Apart from selling of the 5G spectrum to any odd outfit.

/M

Johnboy1951 · 23-08-2018 06:32PM

I guess a driverless car system, with communication to central base, to control ALL the driverless cars within a City area could work well.
Access to specific areas for public transport and driverless cars only.

The cars would have to obey signals sent to them regarding routes and traffic etc etc.

In effect have them all running to in a system controlled centrally.

Probably not in our lifetime, but I can see it in the future.

A large number of 5G masts rolled out to cover the area.

Marlow · 23-08-2018 06:40PM

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I guess a driverless car system, with communication to central base, to control ALL the driverless cars within a City area could work well.

Until somebody jams the entire system or the central servers crash or connectivity gets cut by some drigger somewhere halfway down the network ..... and everyone gets stuck.

Then you've got a worse scenario than the Mifty at 5pm.

/M

bitchandmoan · 23-08-2018 06:48PM

We will only have driverless cars when the aliens come back!
We used to have them after the pubs closed at night!!

Fibre broadband is only rolled out to exchanges.
And if you live more than 2 kilometres from the telephone exchange, you will not have any benefit of fibre.
Fibre broadband is NEVER going to be in any rural house.
I have never heard any politician being challenged about that.
So all the talk about rural fibre broadband is total horsefeathers.
They may as well tel us the one about Santy Claus.!!!!!!!

garroff · 23-08-2018 06:58PM

I live "out the country". I, and my neighbors have fibre broadband to our houses.

pegasus1 · 23-08-2018 06:58PM

Marlow wrote: »

It's not. It's a case of misleading marketing. The same as Eir calling VDSL "eFibre".

/M

Yes it is..

Fake news is news or stories created to deliberately misinform or deceive readers. Fake news is often created to influence views or for political motives.

The high horse brigade · 23-08-2018 07:43PM

bitchandmoan wrote: »

We will only have driverless cars when the aliens come back!
We used to have them after the pubs closed at night!!

Fibre broadband is only rolled out to exchanges.
And if you live more than 2 kilometres from the telephone exchange, you will not have any benefit of fibre.
Fibre broadband is NEVER going to be in any rural house.
I have never heard any politician being challenged about that.
So all the talk about rural fibre broadband is total horsefeathers.
They may as well tel us the one about Santy Claus.!!!!!!!

You trolling?

Ultimanemo · 23-08-2018 08:45PM

Marlow wrote: »

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I guess a driverless car system, with communication to central base, to control ALL the driverless cars within a City area could work well.

Until somebody jams the entire system or the central servers crash or connectivity gets cut by some drigger somewhere halfway down the network ..... and everyone gets stuck.

Then you've got a worse scenario than the Mifty at 5pm.

/M

Actually I would feel very nervous in a driverless car, what if some maniac hacks into it's control and decides to play a racing game and before I can manually control it, he dumps me down a cliff.

Johnboy1951 · 23-08-2018 09:03PM

Ultimanemo wrote: »

Actually I would feel very nervous in a driverless car, what if some maniac hacks into it's control and decides to play a racing game and before I can manually control it, he dumps me down a cliff.

You expect to find a convenient cliff in a city centre?

fritzelly · 23-08-2018 09:05PM

The high horse brigade wrote: »

You trolling?

Obviously or not very well informed of life outside Dublin

purpleisafruit · 24-08-2018 07:41AM

9726_9726 wrote: »

Looking at that on Google Maps, where are the 100 houses?

Satellite image is miles out of date. There are a few more estates around the cross roads that have been added in the past 5/6 years. 30 in my estate, 50ish in another and around 20 others.

ArrBee · 24-08-2018 11:00AM

Marlow wrote: »

5G has no impact. There is no gain for rural areas from 5G. It's just used as the next best buzz word to take attention from failure.

5G is designed for urban short range rollout with a lot more bandwidth per user. It is not replacing 4G. You need a 5G base every couple 100m and fibre to feed it, which we don't have in rural areas. We can't even max the 4G potential yet.

Also, most telcos haven't even paid their 3G and 4G investments off yet. Even the CEO of Huawei was saying, that they expect very few Telcos to invest in a wide spread 5G deployment because of that.

Ergo: 5G does NOTHING for the NBP.

/M

So the main technical issue being that it is short range, yes?

I had heard that it was much lower latency than 4G and of course higher max bandwidth.
So if it was feasible in a rural situation, then figured infrastructure should be aimed this way.

Marlow · 24-08-2018 11:19AM

ArrBee wrote: »

I had heard that it was much lower latency than 4G and of course higher max bandwidth.
So if it was feasible in a rural situation, then figured infrastructure should be aimed this way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5G

5G speed in sub-6 GHz bands is similar to 4G

Mobile networks
Initial 5G launches in the sub-6 GHz band will not diverge architecturally from existing LTE 4G infrastructure.

There is no real advancement in 5G opposed to 4G in rural area settings.

The lower latency is not for mobiles. It's a different 5G technology, which is called URLLC (Ultra Reliable Low Latency Communication) and that's aimed at industrial applications for the automotive industry .. like driverless cars. It will not improve your broadband experience whatsoever.

However, the speeds in these lower frequencies are only modestly higher than new 4G systems, estimated at 15% to 50% faster. At least at the lower frequencies, "5G is evolutionary."

Move on. There is nothing to be seen here. We can't even get enough backhaul into rural 4G sites to max their potential out.

/M

ArrBee · 24-08-2018 11:40AM

Thanks for summerising the salient points!

Pique · 24-08-2018 11:56AM

Has anyone seen/heard an interview with Naughton where he was asked technical questions, or had the technical facts explained to him in a way that he could understand?
I mean, has he even a grasp on what the limitations are regarding wireless solutions or is he just talking the usual PR shyte that Ministers do?
I'd love to see him answer to a knowledgeable committee, on camera, about this palaver. Just to call him out on his BS.

fritzelly · 24-08-2018 12:53PM

Pique wrote: »

Has anyone seen/heard an interview with Naughton where he was asked technical questions, or had the technical facts explained to him in a way that he could understand?
I mean, has he even a grasp on what the limitations are regarding wireless solutions or is he just talking the usual PR shyte that Ministers do?
I'd love to see him answer to a knowledgeable committee, on camera, about this palaver. Just to call him out on his BS.

Your funny

Persiancowboy · 24-08-2018 02:03PM

Pique wrote: »

Has anyone seen/heard an interview with Naughton where he was asked technical questions, or had the technical facts explained to him in a way that he could understand?
I mean, has he even a grasp on what the limitations are regarding wireless solutions or is he just talking the usual PR shyte that Ministers do?
I'd love to see him answer to a knowledgeable committee, on camera, about this palaver. Just to call him out on his BS.

Are you having a laugh???? You seriously expect a Minister to have a detailed technical knowledge and understanding of telecommunications technology? That's the role of officials and that's what they are there for...it's not a function of ministers and never has been.

As for your "knowledgable committee".....where is that supposed to exist? I watched the most recent appearance of the NBP officials at the Oireachtas Telecommunications Committee....it was an absolute joke. As expected they ran rings around the committee who have even less understanding of the issues than Naughten does. I mean Timmy Dooley is the FF spokeperson on broadband!!! And before him it wwas Michael Moynihan...a guy who barely knows what day of the week it is. So where's the hope?????

Ultimanemo · 26-08-2018 08:57AM

Persiancowboy wrote: »

Are you having a laugh???? You seriously expect a Minister to have a detailed technical knowledge and understanding of telecommunications technology? That's the role of officials and that's what they are there for...it's not a function of ministers and never has been.

As for your "knowledgable committee".....where is that supposed to exist? I watched the most recent appearance of the NBP officials at the Oireachtas Telecommunications Committee....it was an absolute joke. As expected they ran rings around the committee who have even less understanding of the issues than Naughten does. I mean Timmy Dooley is the FF spokeperson on broadband!!! And before him it wwas Michael Moynihan...a guy who barely knows what day of the week it is. So where's the hope?????

Yes I do expect the minister to know some details about what he is talking about because politicians make decisions and if they take decisions about something they don't know about, that is how disasters happen.
When I read what he said about 5G I said WOW, we will get superfast broadband in some stage, so I put 5G in google and found that what he is saying is wrong, as said above 5G has limited range and it wouldn't be suitable for rural areas.
So he doesn't know that and then he will negotiate with companies to get all Ireland covered with 5G. how this could be possible.

Ultimanemo · 26-08-2018 08:59AM

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

You expect to find a convenient cliff in a city centre?

If I live in a city centre I wouldn't be in this thread

Johnboy1951 · 26-08-2018 09:25AM

Ultimanemo wrote: »

If I live in a city centre I wouldn't be in this thread

Why not?

It is not a pre-requisite to live outside an urban area to post in this thread!

In any case you quoted this when making your 'cliff' remark ...

I guess a driverless car system, with communication to central base, to control ALL the driverless cars within a City area could work well.

so obviously you either did not read correctly or do expect to find a cliff in a city somewhere!

TimHorton · 26-08-2018 07:15PM

Persiancowboy wrote: »

Are you having a laugh???? You seriously expect a Minister to have a detailed technical knowledge and understanding of telecommunications technology? That's the role of officials and that's what they are there for...it's not a function of ministers and never has been.

As for your "knowledgable committee".....where is that supposed to exist? I watched the most recent appearance of the NBP officials at the Oireachtas Telecommunications Committee....it was an absolute joke. As expected they ran rings around the committee who have even less understanding of the issues than Naughten does. I mean Timmy Dooley is the FF spokeperson on broadband!!! And before him it wwas Michael Moynihan...a guy who barely knows what day of the week it is. So where's the hope?????

Here is Denis Niaughten on Facebook , Bigging up 4G the gob****e !
https://www.facebook.com/DenisNaughtenTD/photos/a.539532566118906/2115684691837011/?type=3&theater

Ultimanemo · 27-08-2018 05:54PM

TimHorton wrote: »

Here is Denis Niaughten on Facebook , Bigging up 4G the gob****e !
https://www.facebook.com/DenisNaughtenTD/photos/a.539532566118906/2115684691837011/?type=3&theater

We should also email him and thank him for the recent heatwave and lovely summer we had this year, after all he is the minister of Climate Action and Environment

NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

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