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Who is at fault here?

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24567…13

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    #32
    grogi
    Registered Users Posts: 8,615 ✭✭✭grogi


    TheChizler wrote: »
    How does traffic leave lane 2 or 3 of a dual carriageway? They plan their movements in good time and cross lanes when safe. This roundabout is just a very bendy dual carriageway.

    Exactly. Which, as this thread clearly shows, is an absolutely horrendous idea...

    Why are Irish road engineers incapable of designing a proper spiral roundabout?


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    #33
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    Outside lane if taking first or second exit was the way we were taught back in the day. Inside lane if 3rd or subsequent.
    There being no 3rd or subsequent in this case, you have to have have sympathy for the blue car. Essentially, if they end up in the inside line in this case, there being no correct exit, they must continue around, on that inside lane until the end of time. You often see cars just going around and around, but at least they are driving correctly.


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    #34
    honda boi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭honda boi


    grogi wrote: »
    RSA was founded to promote safety on the roads... And ironically it looks RSA make the roads more dangerous place..

    RSA does not make law! Forget those ridiculous rules 'left lane for going left or straight, right for turning right'.

    So the blue car would be at fault?
    Pretty sure your thought by a driving instructor that left is for anything before and on 12 o'clock only and right for anything after 12 o'clock ?


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    #35
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,481 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    The council who approved that roundabout in the first place are clearly the ones at fault here. :pac:


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    #36
    grogi
    Registered Users Posts: 8,615 ✭✭✭grogi


    honda boi wrote: »
    So the blue car would be at fault?

    Yes. "A driver shall not drive from one traffic lane to another without good cause, and without yielding the right of way to traffic in that other lane." (S.I. No. 294/1964, Section 17 (3)"
    Pretty sure your thought by a driving instructor that left is for anything before and on 12 o'clock only and right for anything after 12 o'clock ?

    I wasn't. It would be useless to me, as I am often confused if my exit is at five to twelve or five past twelve...

    There is nothing however preventing you from doing so if you wish. Or doing completely opposite... Just remember: yield when crossing dotted line.


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    #37
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    grogi wrote: »
    Stop and wait until it has free way. Basic stuff really.

    TheChizler wrote: »
    How does traffic leave lane 2 or 3 of a dual carriageway? They plan their movements in good time and cross lanes when safe. This roundabout is just a very bendy dual carriageway.

    gorge, considering the below, moving from lane 2 to lane 1 on a dual carraigeway, do you just stop in the laneway and wait for lane 1 to free up ?


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    #38
    grogi
    Registered Users Posts: 8,615 ✭✭✭grogi


    Eric Cartman wrote: »
    gorge, considering the below, moving from lane 2 to lane 1 on a dual carraigeway, do you just stop in the laneway and wait for lane 1 to free up ?

    Are you saying you'd just ram your vehicle into the cars in the lane 1, right?


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    #39
    BettePorter
    Registered Users Posts: 2,257 ✭✭✭BettePorter


    grogi wrote: »
    BettePorter wrote: »
    You'd win the bet ......but you'd be the idiot in the red car going round the roundabout in the outside lane.

    Please restrain from calling names here. Many times...

    If you cannot quote any lawful source of your belief, why do you even bother?

    Oh pls ....you're trying to say I'm being personal ??? You're seriously gonna be that person who drives around the outside of the roundabout ...just because you can and have every right to ? Rather than be a normal person and use the roundabout with a bit of common sense and courtesy and get on with your day ?

    You're gonna be that guy ? Alright fella . If you use a round about like you claim is perfectly fine to do so (however discourteous ) then you're no someone who is ever gonna agree with me ....who has a life and doesn't spend it trying to spout legislation or lack thereof at ppl. The red car is in the wrong. Have a bit of consideration for road users grogi. ...not spout ....oh well I have every right to be here its up to you to evade me ****e


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    #40
    V8 Interceptor
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭V8 Interceptor


    Wildly Boaring wrote: »
    Red is wrong all day long.

    Why is this even a question?

    Either its a trick question or I'm missing something too.


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    #41
    andekwarhola
    Registered Users Posts: 4,638 ✭✭✭andekwarhola


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Happens all day every day joining the M50 from sandyford slip to Dundrum Roundabout.
    Pr1cks pull into the left lane because it moves faster and then cut up cars going straight in the right lane.

    Never understood why there isn't a traffic corps guy there just handing out tickets.

    Drive through that roundabout a lot. Have seen a few collisions alright.

    On the OP, red car looks at fault to me.


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    #42
    V8 Interceptor
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭V8 Interceptor


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    Outside lane if taking first or second exit was the way we were taught back in the day. Inside lane if 3rd or subsequent.
    There being no 3rd or subsequent in this case, you have to have have sympathy for the blue car. Essentially, if they end up in the inside line in this case, there being no correct exit, they must continue around, on that inside lane until the end of time. You often see cars just going around and around, but at least they are driving correctly.

    WTF?


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    #43
    andekwarhola
    Registered Users Posts: 4,638 ✭✭✭andekwarhola


    grogi wrote: »
    Stop and wait until it has free way. Basic stuff really.

    As in suddenly stop in the middle of a roundabout when somebody cuts across you trying to go round the roundabout in the outside lane?


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    #44
    jaxxx
    Registered Users Posts: 3,230 ✭✭✭jaxxx


    Jesus some of the responses are worrying me. It's very simple, it's called the Golden Rule and it's the same globally, just invert for right hand drive countries.

    - Exits from 6 o'clock to 12 o'clock: LEFT HAND LANE ***
    - Exits from 12 o'clock to 6 o'clock: RIGHT HAND LANE ***

    Crystal clear black and white. Doesn't matter how many exit lanes there is, whether it's 2, 3, 4, or 100! The same rule applies. And whichever exit you're coming from is 6 o'clock, didn't think I needed to say that but given some of the responses I figured it be better safe than sorry!

    *** UNLESS STATED OTHERWISE OF COURSE BY SIGNPOST, ROAD MARKINGS, ETC

    ^^ And in the case of dual entry and exit lanes, the right hand lane can unless otherwise shown be used for 12 o'clock into the right hand exit lane.


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    #45
    V8 Interceptor
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭V8 Interceptor


    What is the point of the OP's Roundabout? There's no exits other than to do a 180. Are there such things in existence?


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    #46
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    V8 Interceptor wrote: »
    What is the point of the OP's Roundabout? There's no exits other than to do a 180. Are there such things in existence?

    Yes usually where they plan to add the 3 and 9 o clock roads later.


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    #47
    V8 Interceptor
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭V8 Interceptor


    So it'd kinda be a roundabout/roads still in the process of being built?


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    #48
    firstlight
    Registered Users Posts: 336 ✭✭firstlight


    Some laugh reading some of the replys

    You need eyes in the back of your head for roundabouts In this country, most drivers haven't a clue what to be doing and just close their eyes and hope for the best


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    #49
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    V8 Interceptor wrote: »
    So it'd kinda be a roundabout/roads still in the process of being built?

    Kinda. They can be there for years.

    https://www.google.com/maps/@53.4133728,-6.3963857,3a,75y,283.34h,74.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sOyzauAdL3YTzAJDnbxvmiw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656


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    #50
    Sadb
    Registered Users Posts: 10,660 ✭✭✭✭Sadb


    grogi wrote: »
    Which rule would that be? Can you quote the relevant SI section?! I bet you can't.

    Here you go
    http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Road%20Safety/Leaflets/Leaf_booklets/Roundabouts_DL_2012_v3.pdf


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    #51
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,439 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    andekwarhola wrote: »
    As in suddenly stop in the middle of a roundabout when somebody cuts across you trying to go round the roundabout in the outside lane?
    If the alternative is be involved in an accident then why wouldn't you? Stop or continue round, it's a roundabout they do that.


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    #52
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,439 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    jaxxx wrote: »
    Jesus some of the responses are worrying me. It's very simple, it's called the Golden Rule and it's the same globally, just invert for right hand drive countries.

    - Exits from 6 o'clock to 12 o'clock: LEFT HAND LANE ***
    - Exits from 12 o'clock to 6 o'clock: RIGHT HAND LANE ***
    That rule is just a convention and actually is thrown out a bit by the lack of an exit between 6 and 12. It's not uncommon for the left lane to continue round in that situation. Until the OP clarifies if there are markings on the roundabout itself it's ambiguous and anyone stating things for sure is making assumptions.


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    #53
    CalamariFritti
    Registered Users Posts: 5,464 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    Wildly Boaring wrote: »
    Red is wrong all day long.

    Why is this even a question?

    Because someone who is changing a lane has all the obligations on them. And the blue car is changing lane and the red car isn't.

    You're supposed to exit a roundabout from the leftmost lane. If you're not, you absolutely have to make sure its safe.

    Why is this even a question?

    P.S. And yes I understand most people have real difficulties when it comes to lanes. Lanes in bends or roundabouts? They might as well not exist as most drivers seem to find turning their steering wheel correctly very challenging.


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    #54
    Trasna1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 565 ✭✭✭Trasna1


    grogi wrote: »
    Yes. "A driver shall not drive from one traffic lane to another without good cause, and without yielding the right of way to traffic in that other lane." (S.I. No. 294/1964, Section 17 (3)"



    I wasn't. It would be useless to me, as I am often confused if my exit is at five to twelve or five past twelve...

    There is nothing however preventing you from doing so if you wish. Or doing completely opposite... Just remember: yield when crossing dotted line.

    Is there another lane if there are no road markings? Most roundabouts of this type don't have concentric circle markings (those that do are not marked correctly) so the give way to the right rule applies.

    The do not cross into another lane would only apply if there were road markings indicating lanes. The SI is suitability ambiguous when it comes to roundabouts as it has to cater for all cases, but the standard RSA approved interpretation of the rules would indicate that the red car is at fault.

    A roundabout cannot be treated like a circular dual carriageway unless it is marked so. If it was marked so it would be more like a traffic circle than roundabout.

    You are free of course to argue that your interpretation is correct but you'd need a very good lawyer to win that case.


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    #55
    The Backwards Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,299 ✭✭✭✭The Backwards Man


    People need to realise that being an asshole and being in the wrong are not the same thing. Red car is an idiot, blue car left their lane and hit them.

    More evidence that the majority of drivers shouldn't be on the road.


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    #56
    CalamariFritti
    Registered Users Posts: 5,464 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    The Backwards Man wrote: »
    People need to realise that being an asshole and being in the wrong are not the same thing. Red car is an idiot, blue car left their lane and hit them.

    More evidence that the majority of drivers shouldn't be on the road.

    That.

    Most people can't turn a corner without ending up in the opposite lane. Let alone situations with ambiguity and judgement.

    Imagine if we ever had flying cars. The daily death toll would be in the millions.


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    #57
    GhostyMcGhost
    Registered Users Posts: 1,349 ✭✭✭GhostyMcGhost


    TheChizler wrote: »
    That rule is just a convention and actually is thrown out a bit by the lack of an exit between 6 and 12. It's not uncommon for the left lane to continue round in that situation. Until the OP clarifies if there are markings on the roundabout itself it's ambiguous and anyone stating things for sure is making assumptions.


    Sorry, there are only 2 yield signs on the entry to the roundabout. No arrows whatsoever


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    #58
    Gaspode
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 8,019 CMod ✭✭✭✭Gaspode


    Cyclist was clearly at fault


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    #59
    Akrasia
    Registered Users Posts: 22,316 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    grogi wrote: »
    Stop and wait until it has free way. Basic stuff really.

    You want cars stopping in the middle of busy roundabouts???


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    #60
    andekwarhola
    Registered Users Posts: 4,638 ✭✭✭andekwarhola


    TheChizler wrote: »
    If the alternative is be involved in an accident then why wouldn't you? Stop or continue round, it's a roundabout they do that.

    I didn't say I would do that. I wouldn't have much choice but brake in the middle of a busy roundabout or avoid them, would I?

    Don't, however, pass off the other car not being able to use a roundabout as solely the responsibility of other drivers and their willingness to put themselves in danger to compensate.

    The question was who was in the wrong and the answer is the red car.


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    #61
    Akrasia
    Registered Users Posts: 22,316 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    V8 Interceptor wrote: »
    What is the point of the OP's Roundabout? There's no exits other than to do a 180. Are there such things in existence?

    Do you actually own a car?

    There are roundabouts like that all over the place.


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