2018-2019 Champions Cup

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

Leinster
Exeter
Saracens
Racing
Montpellier
Glasgow
Wasps
Castres / Scarlets

Unless Munster get lucky on scheduling they aren’t getting out of that pool.

Wouldn't be sure of that. They'll win their home games, depends on what they can pick up on the road.

Interested Observer wrote: »

Wouldn't be sure of that. They'll win their home games, depends on what they can pick up on the road.

They will get it hard to get anything off Exzeder.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

That's not a strategy I've heard discussed publicly before

Just watch out for their openside, Dong Hardman

thomond2006 wrote: »

It makes no commercial sense. The interpros in Pro14 are a cash cow. Having more interpros in Europe would cannibalise those attendances. A zero sum game.

Making european knockouts is an even bigger cash cow

roverjoyce wrote: »

Nationality shouldn't come in to it it should be by the league they are coming from
There will always be 2 pro14 teams in pot 4 so they should not be separated by country

You said it was unfair though, how do you think it amounts to being unfair?
The quality of the teams in each pool are roughly even, so how unfair is it if Scarlets get Ulster instead of Blues, or Leinster get Bath instead of Ulster, or Munster get Gloucester instead of Ulster?

Also remember that Wales have 2 teams in it, Scotland have 2 teams in it, Ireland have 3 teams in it, whereas England have 7 teams in it and France have 6 teams in it.
It makes sense to separate teams from a country with 2 or 3 teams in it, for both reasons of having some variety for the clubs and their supporters, and also so that it removes any possibility of two teams from the same country colluding on results.

Once the teams are of a similar quality there is no unfairness in separating Pro14 teams from the same country, and it’s simply not possible to separate the English and French clubs as there are 5 pools and minimum of 6 teams from those countries.

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

The variety argument doesn't really hold up. Because this rule means that in any season Leinster can play Glasgow or Scarlets 4 times in the league phases (twice in Pro14, twice in H-Cup) but only ever play an Irish province 2 times (twice in Pro14, 0 in HCup). That doesn't seem like positive variety for fans.

I don't think collusion is a big issue either - seeding for the knockouts is so important that no-ones going to give up a result just to get their fellow countrymen through.

Obviously I understand why they do it, I just think it's a shame that there's no chance of getting the epic ties that interpro back to back HCup group games would be.

You said no to the reasons I mentioned by then said you obviously understand why they do it,
Then what other reason is there?
Is it so the interpros in the Pro14 won’t be devalued?

Anyway, they are all valid reasons, some hold more weight than others, but it’s certainly not unfair to split the teams from Ireland (or Wales or Scotland) which is what was being suggested.
Do you think it’s unfair?

Another reason perhaps is that the unions don’t want to have a situation where they may have two teams in the one pool, and therefore reduce the chances that both would progress to knockouts, whereas if they were split up into different pools the union would have more of a chance of both of their teams progressing.

The variety reason does stand up if you think about it being a European cup, and the attraction for the sponsors and the supporters is having clubs playing teams from other countries that they don’t already play in their own league. It’s a big part of the draw for fans and therefore the sponsors.
Your example was flawed also, the variety is that the team can play any team outside their country not just a team from the Pro14, so it still holds the possibility of the team being from England or France, which is positive variety as you called it.
If it ends up being another Pro14 team then that’s just luck of the draw, but it’s still more of a draw to the regular fan than playing your fellow province.

And you say collusion wouldn’t be an issue, well think about it, what if Munster and Ulster were in the same group and one of the teams was already eliminated while the other needed a bonus point win in the last game to progress, would the IRFU put pressure on the eliminated team to field a weakened team and rest a few players? Or would you trust that Scotland or Wales wouldn’t do it either if they had the same situation?

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

I think it's fairly clear from my previous rambling post that I'm conflicted about it :P
Ultimately I don't see the sense in being able to play Glasgow four times in league phase but only play say Munster twice. But also can see revenue reasons, player protections reasons, maximisation of chances of getting multiple teams through to 1/4 finals. Also any single country ties may not be attractive for sponsors and outside broadcasters either, BT and Sky like to build up the Country A v Country B rivalry aspect to fixtures.
It is what it is, not a big deal really.

Yes I agree there are probably a few reasons why they do it
The point was that it isn’t unfair to the other teams.
I also think it is a good spectacle to see Irish teams play against each other in Europe but just preferably not in the pool stages.
And in the pro14 playoffs we often get Irish provinces playing off against each other too, so those derbies might get a bit too repetitive if also played in group stages.

The first fixtures for the Pool Stage will be released later this summer, around two weeks after the last fixture announcement of Europe’s three professional domestic leagues.

https://twitter.com/ChampionsCup/status/1015533121251442688

The way the Pro14 are faffing about we wont get Champions Cup fixtures until September then :pac:

molloyjh wrote: »

To be fair, the Pro14 have to organise fixtures across 2 hemispheres, 5 countries (and therefore 5 Unions), a handful of TV stations and 14 teams. Compare that to the AP and Top 14. 1 hemisphere, 1 country (1 Union), 1 TV station and 12/14 teams. It's going to take longer as a result. There's not much anyone can do there really. Fixtures are due out the same time as last year apparently, which is the start of August. I'd expect the HEC fixtures in the third week of August.

Pro14 Chief Executive said last week that the fixtures should be out the middle of this month, so in the next week or so!

The Headline Maker has done it again! Pocket change to him, but the points could make a big difference to Toulon.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2018/0717/979344-toulon-president-boudjellal-hit-with-75k-fine/

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Finally some white smoke. Fixtures tomorrow at noon.

Well spotted - was just about to post a question about this. About time too.

So TV3 are actually sharing their televised game with other free to air stations and will only have two games featuring the provinces (round 2 and 5). They're going to have shag all people tuning in to watch the likes of Bath vs Toulouse, Cardiff vs Saracens or Gloucester vs Exeter.