Why do people still go to Dubai with its contempt for basic human rights?

Tom Dunne · 13-08-2018 08:20AM

savemejebus wrote: »

More info coming out now , she wasn’t traveling on a UK or Swedish passport, rather she had an expired Swedish passport that she allegedly tried to use before producing a current Iranian passport. Could explain the visa kerfuffle
Then the video issue came up and the drinking was the icing on the cake.

Whoa, let's not permit the facts to get in the way of a good story about the oppressive Arabs.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 13-08-2018 08:33AM

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Whoa, let's not permit the facts to get in the way of a good story about the oppressive Arabs.

This post sits uncomfortably with your last post about Saudi Arabia

She’s in jail for the drinking as far as I can see. And I doubt the passport was expired - how would she get in the plane. It might be near to expiry date though and different countries have different rules on how close to expiry they would allow a visa waiver.

All of that should have lead to a deportation but she’s there for a year awaiting trial, which is probably alcohol related. Alcohol is illegal in Dubai.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 13-08-2018 08:34AM

cursai wrote: »

I'm shocked. But the simpletons only work off of initial headlines I'm afraid.

Simpletons tend to accept what they want to accept. She couldn’t have travelled on an expired passport.

Tom Dunne · 13-08-2018 08:37AM

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

She’s in jail for the drinking as far as I can see. .

The key point being "as far as I can see". None of us were there, none of us have the full facts. Pure conjecture.

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

All of that should have lead to a deportation but she’s there for a year awaiting trial, which is probably alcohol related. Alcohol is illegal in Dubai.

You keep repeating that alcohol is illegal in Dubai, yet my many drunken escapades there would suggest otherwise. Do you have any legitimate evidence to confirm this is the case?

cdeb · 13-08-2018 08:37AM

I agree a link to the new info would be good to see what else is there.

In theory, you could board on an in-date Iranian passport and try get into Dubai on an expired Swedish passport. So boarding the plane not an issue - but do they not check at departure that you have the required visa for landing too?

howdido · 13-08-2018 08:38AM

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Whoa, let's not permit the facts to get in the way of a good story about the oppressive Arabs.

This post sits uncomfortably with your last post about Saudi Arabia

She’s in jail for the drinking as far as I can see. And I doubt the passport was expired - how would she get in the plane. It might be near to expiry date though and different countries have different rules on how close to expiry they would allow a visa waiver.

All of that should have lead to a deportation but she’s there for a year awaiting trial, which is probably alcohol related. Alcohol is illegal in Dubai.

Another Simpleton! Shes already been allowed return to the UK

PlaneSpeeking · 13-08-2018 08:47AM

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

This post sits uncomfortably with your last post about Saudi Arabia

She’s in jail for the drinking as far as I can see. And I doubt the passport was expired - how would she get in the plane. It might be near to expiry date though and different countries have different rules on how close to expiry they would allow a visa waiver.

All of that should have lead to a deportation but she’s there for a year awaiting trial, which is probably alcohol related. Alcohol is illegal in Dubai.

Sorry but no - she was locked up for an invalid visa and/or passport, starting filming the immigration officials when not allowed to - and told to stop - and also verbally abusing said officials.

https://metro.co.uk/2018/08/12/british-mother-was-not-jailed-in-dubai-for-drinking-glass-of-wine-but-for-expired-passport-7828960/

https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/mother-jailed-in-dubai-after-one-glass-of-wine-filmed-airport-officials/news-story/61b46d38e7817c72bef103b3c9e9560d

Fellow passengers confirm wine was sold and consumed freely - only to non Dubai nationals or other Arabic states. A colleague of mine regularly flies to Bahrain and Malaysia and tells me the flights have a separate bell, like that for searbelts etc and it is when international airspace is entered and alcohol may be served.

I personally would not be found dead anywhere near these countries but in this case the truth and the woman's story are barely even close.

PlaneSpeeking · 13-08-2018 08:49AM

Tom Dunne wrote: »

The key point being "as far as I can see". None of us were there, none of us have the full facts. Pure conjecture.

You keep repeating that alcohol is illegal in Dubai, yet my many drunken escapades there would suggest otherwise. Do you have any legitimate evidence to confirm this is the case?

Alcohol is very much NOT illegal for non-Arabic country passport holders.

A couple of pals had a 12 hour layover there on the way to Australia and had a whale of a time!

Tom Dunne · 13-08-2018 08:52AM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Alcohol is very much NOT illegal for non-Arabic country passport holders.

A couple of pals had a 12 hour layover there on the way to Australia and had a whale of a time!

Exactly my point. Yet some people here can't let the truth get in the way of a good story. And when challenged can't back up their claims.

/thread

Franz Von Peppercorn · 13-08-2018 08:55AM

Tom Dunne wrote: »

The key point being "as far as I can see". None of us were there, none of us have the full facts. Pure conjecture.

Not at all. A “visa issue” on the visa waiver program would see you sent back home.

You keep repeating that alcohol is illegal in Dubai, yet my many drunken escapades there would suggest otherwise. Do you have any legitimate evidence to confirm this is the case?

I know, facts right? Like a lot of people who booze their way though Dubai you don’t look into the facts. Anecdotes are not facts.

why is it hard to believe that an Islamic country has strict laws on alcohol, with exemptions.

You could get very drunk in Ireland on good Friday when the ban was in by choosing your establishment but alcohol was banned on that day with exemptions.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 13-08-2018 08:58AM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Alcohol is very much NOT illegal for non-Arabic country passport holders.

A couple of pals had a 12 hour layover there on the way to Australia and had a whale of a time!

It is illegal for everybody outside some areas.

https://www.dubai-online.com/essential/alcohol/

PlaneSpeeking · 13-08-2018 09:00AM

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Not at all. A “visa issue” on the visa waiver program would see you sent back home.

I know, facts right? Like a lot of people who booze their way though Dubai you don’t look into the facts. Anecdotes are not facts.

why is it hard to believe that an Islamic country has strict laws on alcohol, with exemptions.

You could get very drunk in Ireland on good Friday when the ban was in by choosing your establishment but alcohol was banned on that day with exemptions.

Ah the old "anecdotes" argument.

So because you have not personally experienced something - but others have, and it doesn't fit your agenda - you can ignore it ?

So facts:

https://www.dubai-online.com/essential/alcohol/

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/united-arab-emirates/local-laws-and-customs

https://www.worldnomads.com/travel-safety/middle-east/united-arab-emirates/drinking-and-the-united-arab-emirates-dont-mix

PlaneSpeeking · 13-08-2018 09:00AM

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

It is illegal for everybody outside some areas.

https://www.dubai-online.com/essential/alcohol/

So you go to the areas where it is not. Really not "banned" is it ?

Tom Dunne · 13-08-2018 09:06AM

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

It is illegal for everybody outside some areas.

https://www.dubai-online.com/essential/alcohol/

A quote from that website:

"The legal drinking age is 21. Minors requiring something stronger than an orange juice should pack false beards"

:D

Seriously, stop embarrassing yourself. I asked you to provide a legitimate source that confirms alcohol is illegal in Dubai, yet you cannot do that.

PlaneSpeeking · 13-08-2018 09:11AM

Tom Dunne wrote: »

A quote from that website:

"The legal drinking age is 21. Minors requiring something stronger than an orange juice should pack false beards"

:D

Seriously, stop embarrassing yourself. I asked you to provide a legitimate source that confirms alcohol is illegal in Dubai, yet you cannot do that.

Ah be fair - it can't be provided because it's not illegal!

Be like sending the lad for the Philosopher's Stone!

Tom Dunne · 13-08-2018 09:17AM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Ah be fair - it can't be provided because it's not illegal!

Be like sending the lad for the Philosopher's Stone!

Hang on a sec. Somebody on the Internet is wrong (me). Convention dictates that Franz cannot sleep until he proves me wrong.

CruelCoin · 13-08-2018 09:18AM

JupiterKid wrote: »

What is the appeal?

JupiterKid wrote: »

glittering buildings

What is the appeal in eating chicken when the farming process is horrendous in terms of ethics etc?
Because it's goddam delicious, that's why.

Same logic applies to visiting Dubai.
I recommend it! The gold market etc is wonderful.

Subcomandante Marcos · 13-08-2018 09:21AM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

So you go to the areas where it is not. Really not "banned" is it ?

But, it is.

It's illegal to have any alcohol in your system at any time. So you're in the Irish centre having a few pints of Guinness in McGettigans with the boiiiis and having a great time spending €14 a pint and thinking you're new aftershave must be working because this 21 year old russian girl is giving you the eyes from across the bar.

Off home you head, alone, when you find out that russian wan wanted €500 for the night andbyou forgot to bring the credit card.

On your way home your can get stopped by cops for whatever reason, maybe they're dipping for green diesel or there's a sketchy hiace in the area.

They decide to breathalyse you, the passenger, much to your surprise, and suddenly you're being arrested for being drunk in public.

Or you're a woman who had a glass of wine with dinner and then some guy in a bar sexually assaults you, you go to the hospital to be examined and they called the police, they breathalyse you, and you're being charged with being drunk public, committing adultery and general being a western whore trying to corrupt these poor naive Arab boys. You whore.

These aren't anecdotes either, they are literal case studies of people detained in the UAE despite having "permit" in hand, bit being fr Muslim countries, not drinking outside of the "permitted" areas and not "acting the eejit".

CruelCoin · 13-08-2018 09:21AM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Ah be fair - it can't be provided because it's not illegal!

Be like sending the lad for the Philosopher's Stone!

UK advisory below:

Alcohol
Non-Muslim residents can get a liquor licence to drink alcohol at home and in licensed venues. These licences are valid only in the Emirate that issued the licence. Residents must also get a permit to be able to drink in licensed venues.

Liquor licences are not available to non-residents, but it is possible for tourists and visitors to buy and drink alcohol in licensed venues, such as hotels, restaurants and clubs. However, you should be aware that it is a punishable offence under UAE law to drink or be under the influence of alcohol in public. British nationals have been arrested and charged under this law, often in cases where they have come to the attention of the police for a related offence or matter, such as disorderly or offensive behaviour.

Generally, the legal age for drinking alcohol is 18 in Abu Dhabi, but a Ministry of Tourism by-law prevents hotels from serving alcohol to those under the age of 21. In Dubai and all other emirates besides Sharjah, the drinking age is 21. Drinking alcohol in Sharjah is illegal.

Passengers in transit through the UAE under the influence of alcohol may also be arrested.

CruelCoin · 13-08-2018 09:22AM

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

They decide to breathalyse you, the passenger, much to your surprise, and suddenly you're being arrested for being drunk in public.
".

Yup.
Drink all you like in the hotel bar, but you better be 100% sober before you leave the hotel grounds.

Tom Dunne · 13-08-2018 09:27AM

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

It's illegal to have any alcohol in your system at any time

So how do you reconcile the issuing of alcohol licenses and the fact that the legal age for alcohol consumption is 18 with the above statement?

PlaneSpeeking · 13-08-2018 09:27AM

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

But, it is.

It's illegal to have any alcohol in your system at any time. So you're in the Irish centre having a few pints of Guinness in McGettigans with the boiiiis and having a great time spending €14 a pint and thinking you're new aftershave must be working because this 21 year old russian girl is giving you the eyes from across the bar.

Off home you head, alone, when you find out that russian wan wanted €500 for the night andbyou forgot to bring the credit card.

On your way home your can get stopped by cops for whatever reason, maybe they're dipping for green diesel or there's a sketchy hiace in the area.

They decide to breathalyse you, the passenger, much to your surprise, and suddenly you're being arrested for being drunk in public.

Or you're a woman who had a glass of wine with dinner and then some guy in a bar sexually assaults you, you go to the hospital to be examined and they called the police, they breathalyse you, and you're being charged with being drunk public, committing adultery and general being a western whore trying to corrupt these poor naive Arab boys. You whore.

These aren't anecdotes either, they are literal case studies of people detained in the UAE despite having "permit" in hand, bit being fr Muslim countries, not drinking outside of the "permitted" areas and not "acting the eejit".

That is Champions League level whataboutery there! Kudos!

Subcomandante Marcos · 13-08-2018 09:30AM

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

That is Champions League level whataboutery there! Kudos!

It's not whataboutery at all. It's literally how the legal system on the UAE works. I travel to and through Dubai far more than I'd like, I just don't drink there, even on layovers, because it's not worth the risk.

Subcomandante Marcos · 13-08-2018 09:33AM

Tom Dunne wrote: »

So how do you reconcile the issuing of alcohol licenses and the fact that the legal age for alcohol consumption is 18 with the above statement?

Because the laws are hodgepodge and incompatible. It's legal to drink in this spot, step outside this spot and need to visit a hospital or police station, and you're liable for prosecution for being drunk, even if you're not drunk, and you drank the alcohol in a places that can legally sell alcohol.

Sleepy · 13-08-2018 09:39AM

I can understand people wanting to spend a few years working as teachers / nurses / engineers / whatever in a country with practically no income tax: it's a handy way to get the deposit for a house together. Personally, I couldn't do it if I knew the country in question was built on slavery and oppression, and I feel no qualms about judging others for doing so, even if I can understand their motivations.

I've not been to the UAE, have no intention of ever visiting and would share the OPs lack of understanding for how anyone could holiday there with a clean conciense.

Tom Dunne · 13-08-2018 09:45AM

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

It's not whataboutery at all. It's literally how the legal system on the UAE works. I travel to and through Dubai far more than I'd like, I just don't drink there, even on layovers, because it's not worth the risk.

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

Because the laws are hodgepodge and incompatible. It's legal to drink in this spot, step outside this spot and need to visit a hospital or police station, and you're liable for prosecution for being drunk, even if you're not drunk, and you drank the alcohol in a places that can legally sell alcohol.

I really think you are overplaying the risk. As I said before, my own experience does not suggest it is as big an issue as you are making out.

I do not deny there are horror stories, but as the story at the centre of this thread proves that such episodes should not be taken at face value and a healthy dose of scepticism is warranted.

PlaneSpeeking · 13-08-2018 09:48AM

I personally wouldn't go there because no one has told me what I can and cannot do, say or drink since 1993 when the mammy passed - and to be honest I may not have always listened to her.

I see no reason to pay a fortune to go to a country where just that would happen.

At least the mammy did it because she loved me, not because she was a raving misogynistic sh**hole.

manonboard · 13-08-2018 09:49AM

https://metro.co.uk/2018/08/12/british-mother-was-not-jailed-in-dubai-for-drinking-glass-of-wine-but-for-expired-passport-7828960/

This article contains a more likely story.
Her Swedish passport was expired. She then produced the Iranian passport. She has to reschedule her flight to be inside the visa window of this new passport allowance. She refused because of fees. She got angry when told she cannot enter otherwise. She began recording a government official in a no photography zone.
The alcohol seems to be a mere additional technicality.

PlaneSpeeking · 13-08-2018 09:51AM

manonboard wrote: »

https://metro.co.uk/2018/08/12/british-mother-was-not-jailed-in-dubai-for-drinking-glass-of-wine-but-for-expired-passport-7828960/

This article contains a more likely story.
Her Swedish passport was expired. She then produced the Iranian passport. She has to reschedule her flight to be inside the visa window of this new passport allowance. She refused because of fees. She got angry when told she cannot enter otherwise. She began recording a government official in a no photography zone.
The alcohol seems to be a mere additional technicality.

This!

Though tbh I'd have give her a decent stretch in the Dochas for calling her child Bibi!

Tom Dunne · 13-08-2018 09:55AM

Finally!

My work is done here.

Why do people still go to Dubai with its contempt for basic human rights?

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