Why do people still go to Dubai with its contempt for basic human rights?

JupiterKid

More human rights abuses wielded by that backward and frankly barbaric place Dubai where the glittering skyscrapers are really just a desert mirage built on sand and are not fooling a lot of people.

Latest story to emerge is that a UK resident Swedish woman and her young daughter were imprisoned for the lady drinking one glass of wine on a flight to that sh*thole.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/world/mother-held-in-dubai-for-three-days-after-one-glass-of-wine-on-flight-861329.html


Why do Westerners still choose to live and holiday there?

In the case of the former, I can see why some people who don’t give a rat’s ass what happens to others - like tourists and residents who get on the wrong side of their medieval laws and who pay the price - are bribed by tax free big incomes but tourists who go there, a place where those glittering buildings that are the product of what amounts to indentured slave labour from poorer countries like Pakistan and Bangladesh. What is the appeal?

Tzardine

Because people just dont care.

Not trying to troll, but its true. The majority of folk just dont care about this kind of stuff. So long as the place looks good on an instagram photo to show their mates they are happy.

Edit - Should also say, I lived in the middle east for a while, including Dubai. Its a weird place, for somewhere that is so strict in many things, I have never been in a place where prostitution was so in your face. The bars / hotels are full of them. Even one time I was with my girlfriend we were still getting propositioned for threesomes. This was around the same time the couple were jailed for a year for kissing on the beach.

end of the road

the media should be reporting every single human rights abuse that goes on in this and other hell holes if and where possible.

Noveight

Many newly qualified teachers do a stint over there because the rate of pay is far greater than it is here.

Get in, line your pockets, get out. Hard to blame them.

Trigger Happy

end of the road wrote: »

the media should be reporting every single human rights abuse that goes on in this and other hell holes if and where possible.

Nah, sure let’s have them host the World Cup instead. Let’s huy their oil and duty free and pretend we don’t know how these **** treat migrant workers.

UAE prime minister's daughter Latifa Mohammed Al Maktoum, has twice tried to flee the country, in order to 'claim her life back', as she put it. She was tracked down in March 2018 and brought back to Dubai. She has not been seen publicly since.

She had made a couple of Youtube videos telling her story, before she fled.

JupiterKid

end of the road wrote: »

maybe because for the most part they seem to be unaware of the reality of such a hell hole.

I think that, at this stage, many if not most Westerners know that Dubai is basically an unsustainable mirage sitting atop a completely undemocratic backward Middle Eastern regime that acts with vicious impunity against a very unlucky few who are meted out barbaric treatment but they simply choose to look the other way. Avert their gaze from the ugly reality.

Sad but true - Dubai is a perfect example of the dark side of human nature and all that is wrong and bad about humanity as a species.

JohnCleary

I can't help but think there's more to this story.

I landed in Dubai last year in an absolute state. Drank in the airport for another 3 hours and then on to a plane for Bangkok. They stopped.me at the gate and said they thought I was too drunk to fly. A bit of persuasion and using the excuse of me flying business class was infact because I had a very important meeting in Bangkok, they allowed me board.

What's the story with UK residents and visa for Dubai? I've never had to get a visa for Dubai visits (VOR?) and ive stayed almost a week at a time. They refer to an invalid visa in the report. What visa?!

Full story would be nice to hear.

Just to add, I don't like Dubai or what it stands for... we only go as it's either a layover or to visit friends

Das Reich

I bet my ass that the people that complain about Dubai not followiong the human rights are the same that defends the islamization of Europe.

Tom Dunne

Look a bit closer at that story and you will see that all is not as reported.

The initial dispute appears to have been about a visa. The woman obviously didn't like the border guard's attitude (having been there many times, they are condescending, disinterested pricks) so decided to record their interaction on her phone. Anyone with half a brain knows you don't record stuff in an arrivals hall of an airport. Try doing that in the US and see what happens.

The line about alcohol consumption in Dubai is true, for Muslims. As long as you don't cause a scene, you can drink as much as you want, despite what the story says. Yes, I am speaking from experience.

I would guess, and I admit it is pure speculation, that the prick of an immigration officer didn't like the attitude of a feisty woman (they prefer them subservient and malleable), so started on about alcohol. It appears to have spiralled downwards after that.

Totally and utterly disgusting situation for that woman to find herself in.

suicide_circus

it's rank hypocrisy.

people who will malign ireland for its treatment of women/travellers/ the homeless etc will in the next breath tell you they're just back from a place with indentured servitude, gross and flagrant human rights abuses with the wholesale repression of women and gays.

Pauliedragon

That story isn't as simple as her having a glass of wine. She turned up with no visa, starting mouthing off at the immi officials then tried to film them. Yes locking her up for that is probably a bit harsh but personally I don't have much sympathy for her, she should know better than to cause a scene in a place like that. This whole "she was locked up for simply having a glass of wine" bull**** is just media headlining nonsense as usual.

cdeb

JohnCleary wrote: »

I can't help but think there's more to this story.

What's the story with UK residents and visa for Dubai? I've never had to get a visa for Dubai visits (VOR?) and ive stayed almost a week at a time. They refer to an invalid visa in the report. What visa?!

Full story would be nice to hear

I thought that as well. But UK (and Swedish) residents can get a visa on arrival, so I don't see why a visa would be checked at all. I know I was there for a day while transiting to India, and I don't recall any checks on onward connections or whether I had a visa for India. I also had a glass of wine in a restaurant at the top of a skyscraper there; the alcohol rules certainly aren't as strict as noted.

All a bit strange. Obviously completely unacceptable if it happened as outlined. Maybe I'm just inherently sceptical of the press given they're happy putting out clickbait articles with obvious holes in them rather than doing proper investigations.

Also, why would she lose money on legal fees? Surely consular assistance should kick in?

JohnnyFlash

Some lovely golf courses there.

nim1bdeh38l2cw

Trigger Happy wrote: »

Nah, sure let’s have them host the World Cup instead. Let’s huy their oil and duty free and pretend we don’t know how these **** treat migrant workers.

Well that's like saying Ireland is part of Britain.

Niles Crane

If you don't like their laws don't go there.

If people are going to go there then the least they can do is try and respect their laws regardless of how stupid they may be.

The same applies to people from muslim countries going to other countries.

suicide_circus

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Some lovely golf courses there.

when you have construction health and safety standards akin to those enjoyed by the slaves who built the pyramids it's easy to have the place looking good.

yosser hughes

JohnCleary wrote: »

I can't help but think there's more to this story.

I landed in Dubai last year in an absolute state. Drank in the airport for another 3 hours and then on to a plane for Bangkok. They stopped.me at the gate and said they thought I was too drunk to fly. A bit of persuasion and using the excuse of me flying business class was infact because I had a very important meeting in Bangkok, they allowed me board.

What's the story with UK residents and visa for Dubai? I've never had to get a visa for Dubai visits (VOR?) and ive stayed almost a week at a time. They refer to an invalid visa in the report. What visa?!

Full story would be nice to hear.

Just to add, I don't like Dubai or what it stands for... we only go as it's either a layover or to visit friends

What do you think John? Why do you think you were treated differently to this woman? Now, have a think about it.

Dr Turk Turkelton

Tzardine wrote: »

Because people just dont care.

Not trying to troll, but its true. The majority of folk just dont care about this kind of stuff. So long as the place looks good on an instagram photo to show their mates they are happy.

Edit - Should also say, I lived in the middle east for a while, including Dubai. Its a weird place, for somewhere that is so strict in many things, I have never been in a place where prostitution was so in your face. The bars / hotels are full of them. Even one time I was with my girlfriend we were still getting propositioned for threesomes. This was around the same time the couple were jailed for a year for kissing on the beach.

Was the threesome any good?
Sex and sexuality forum >>>>>
And don't leave any details out.

Tom Dunne

cdeb wrote: »

Maybe I'm just inherently sceptical of the press given they're happy putting out clickbait articles with obvious holes in them rather than doing proper investigations.

^This.

There was a report a few years back of a couple being arrested in Dubai for holding hands. Turns out they were riding on the beach, drunk, in full view of families - something that would get you arrested in a lot of countries, civilised or uncivilised.

JohnCleary

yosser hughes wrote: »

What do you think John? Why do you think you were treated differently to this woman? Now, have a think about it.

Because there was no issue with my Visa.

Because I didn't get stroppy with an Immigration Officer.

Because I didn't start recording an Immigration Officer with my phone.

There's 3 reasons :pac:

The Backwards Man

She'd have been arrested for the same thing anywhere else, but papers will keep spouting headlines like this for as long as they get eejits to lap them up.

Del2005

Niles Crane wrote: »

If you don't like their laws don't go there.

If people are going to go there then the least they can do is try and respect their laws regardless of how stupid they may be.

The same applies to people from muslim countries going to other countries.

They don't follow our laws they want their laws here.

One eyed Jack

JupiterKid wrote: »

More human rights abuses wielded by that backward and frankly barbaric place Dubai where the glittering skyscrapers are really just a desert mirage built on sand and are not fooling a lot of people.

Latest story to emerge is that a UK resident Swedish woman and her young daughter were imprisoned for the lady drinking one glass of wine on a flight to that sh*thole.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/world/mother-held-in-dubai-for-three-days-after-one-glass-of-wine-on-flight-861329.html


Why do Westerners still choose to live and holiday there?

In the case of the former, I can see why some people who don’t give a rat’s ass what happens to others - like tourists and residents who get on the wrong side of their medieval laws and who pay the price - are bribed by tax free big incomes but tourists who go there, a place where those glittering buildings that are the product of what amounts to indentured slave labour from poorer countries like Pakistan and Bangladesh. What is the appeal?

Because it’s not the shìthole the Western media makes it out to be, in the simplest and most straightforward answer to your question. For many Irish people living in Dubai, Ireland is a shìthole by comparison. I’ve a mate living over there five years now and she’s loving every minute of it, happiest she’s ever been in her life, and sent me video of The Coronas playing there in concert on St. Patrick’s Day where they were having a right good knees up. Over here, we were subjected to people pissing on the streets and knocking seven bells out of each other.

Perspective I guess, is what matters.

I'd question this story. I was over there earlier in the year and drank about 8 cans on the flight had a bottle of whiskey in my carry on from duty free in Dublin and spent a large part of my week over there drinking including being absolutely hammered on one occasion and never had even a slight bit of hassle (bar taxi drivers being reluctant to take drunk people). Great spot have to say, their boozy brunches are legendary and some craic.

Have a female family member living there and she loves the place. Western women are treated very well there from what I see, ladies nights are a regular thing for example where they drink for free while men have to pay normal prices.

Pkiernan

To answer the OPs question, people dont care because only Trump supporters are evil.

Left wing loonies know that anyone else is incapable of being evil.

AllForIt

Dubai or not Dubai, that is the question.

no.8

Adrian Icy Hand wrote:

I'd question this story. I was over there earlier in the year and drank about 8 cans on the flight had a bottle of whiskey in my carry on from duty free in Dublin and spent a large part of my week over there drinking including being absolutely hammered on one occasion and never had even a slight bit of hassle (bar taxi drivers being reluctant to take drunk people). Great spot have to say, their boozy brunches are legendary and some craic.

Think you might have other issues... 8 cans on a flight <8hours.

I know others who've lived in Abu Dhabi and left due to the archaic laws on co-occomodation and alcohol. You haven't lived there

no.8

Except this has nothing to do with the story. The state airline...offers alcohol on the flight. If they truely abided by their laws then they would flat out van alcohol. Practice what you preach. She did nothing wrong,wtf is wrong with you?

end of the road

Trigger Happy wrote: »

Nah, sure let’s have them host the World Cup instead. Let’s huy their oil and duty free and pretend we don’t know how these **** treat migrant workers.

i know, shur itl be mihey craic begorra. :puke. the country should be stripped of the world cup.

Niles Crane wrote: »

If you don't like their laws don't go there.

If people are going to go there then the least they can do is try and respect their laws regardless of how stupid they may be.

The same applies to people from muslim countries going to other countries.

hellholes like that country don't deserve to have their laws respected. for laws to be respected, they must be just and fair.

JohnCleary wrote: »

Because there was no issue with my Visa.

Because I didn't get stroppy with an Immigration Officer.

Because I didn't start recording an Immigration Officer with my phone.

There's 3 reasons

only 1 of those is a reason, the first one.

yabadabado

Trigger Happy wrote: »

Nah, sure let’s have them host the World Cup instead. Let’s huy their oil and duty free and pretend we don’t know how these **** treat migrant workers.

What world cup are Dubai hosting:o

Sal Butamol

Anyone I've known that goes to Dubai is a preening tosser. It attracts them like flies on ****e

fullstop

no.8 wrote: »

Except this has nothing to do with the story. The state airline...offers alcohol on the flight. If they truely abided by their laws then they would flat out van alcohol. Practice what you preach. She did nothing wrong,wtf is wrong with you?

Were you there or how do you know she did nothing wrong? You don't start recording immigration officials on your phone ffs. Anywhere.

Pauliedragon

Imagine if that was someone from Dubai giving the immi officials in Heathrow a gobful, the headlines would read "Unruly and abusive passenger arrested at Heathrow for threatning behaviour towards immigration officilals"

CrankyHaus

The treatment of migrant workers from Asia in the Gulf states is appalling, not to mention the treatment of women, and the odd Western expat or tourist getting a slap on the wrist for drinking is a minor matter in comparison.

However if you look at the history of these places its hardly surprising that they're characterised by autocrats with no democratic mandate, a venal and corrupt administration, poor human rights and a reliance on oppressively doctrinaire islam to suppress unrest.

In their modern form most gulf countries, including the UAE, Saudi Arabia and Oman were basically created by the British as client states to further their strategic interests (control of oil, protection of sea routes to India and Asia) and subsequently propped up by the US for the same reasons when it took the reins from the British. A ruling family or clique were installed and supported as long as they kept John Bull and Uncle Sam happy.

Nowadays they're a little less dependant, but never entirely secure, and the support continues, not least because they keep the UK defence industry afloat, and the US one flush, with their massive arms spending.

steddyeddy

The story isn't simple. She turned up without a visa. Do that in any country and there'll be trouble.

That said it's still a country that prides itself on treating certain classes, genders and nationalities like human execrement. My grandmother said put a beggar in horseback and they'll ride all the way to hell. In this case it's true. A highly regressive society found money and exercised their newly found power to denegrate people based on the laws of some ancient desert tribes.

Niles Crane

Del2005 wrote: »

They don't follow our laws they want their laws here.

I know, which is completely hypocritical and is why any of that nonsense shouldn't be tolerated.

Niles Crane

end of the road wrote: »

hellholes like that country don't deserve to have their laws respected. for laws to be respected, they must be just and fair.

If you don't like a country's laws just don't go there, it's very simple way of dealing with them.

Just like if Muslims don't like the way people do things in the west they shouldn't live here and expect us to try and accomodate them.

Atoms for Peace

suicide_circus wrote: »

when you have construction health and safety standards akin to those enjoyed by the slaves who built the pyramids it's easy to have the place looking good.

Look a little closer and you can see the trade work isn't up to western standards, very poor finish to the majority of construction work over there.

JohnCleary

end of the road wrote: »

only 1 of those is a reason, the first one.

We'll if you knew that in the first place, why did you bother asking me? Think your little plan backfired there :pac:

visiting a place, or working there, is not a vote for its society or system of govt

otherwise your presume a lot of the whingers about our current lot wouldve fukced off years back

no.8

no.8 wrote: »

Think you might have other issues... 8 cans on a flight <8hours.

I know others who've lived in Abu Dhabi and left due to the archaic laws on co-occomodation and alcohol. You haven't lived there

You can only get 330ml cans on a flight unforuntately so really only about 5 proper cans. Absolutely nothing in 7 hours, 8 pints+ in 7 hours would be a very regular evening for me in the pub.

As for not living there, I have a close female family member living there and she loves the place. They certainly have no issues with drinking, they spend most of their weekends eating and drinking in fairly luxurious surroundings. Ive been in places over there that would barely be allowed here from free for all drinking point of view.

Franz Von Peppercorn

JohnCleary wrote: »

I can't help but think there's more to this story.

I landed in Dubai last year in an absolute state. Drank in the airport for another 3 hours and then on to a plane for Bangkok. They stopped.me at the gate and said they thought I was too drunk to fly. A bit of persuasion and using the excuse of me flying business class was infact because I had a very important meeting in Bangkok, they allowed me board.

What's the story with UK residents and visa for Dubai? I've never had to get a visa for Dubai visits (VOR?) and ive stayed almost a week at a time. They refer to an invalid visa in the report. What visa?!

Full story would be nice to hear.

Just to add, I don't like Dubai or what it stands for... we only go as it's either a layover or to visit friends

You got lucky. It fully depends on the immigration officer. Also she’s a woman. The immigration officer might have tougher views on women and drink.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Samara Old Globe wrote: »

You can only get 330ml cans on a flight unforuntately so really only about 5 proper cans. Absolutely nothing in 7 hours, 8 pints+ in 7 hours would be a very regular evening for me in the pub.

As for not living there, I have a close female family member living there and she loves the place. They certainly have no issues with drinking, they spend most of their weekends eating and drinking in fairly luxurious surroundings. Ive been in places over there that would barely be allowed here from free for all drinking point of view.

Of course people drink there but it’s generally in hotels or clubs that are licensed.

Most westerners are walking on thin ice when they are living or working there, and most are not aware of it.

Sandor Clegane

To be honest I have no sympathy for any westerner that goes to places like Dubai and then for whatever reason ends up on the wrong side of their laws.

It's an Arab country with Arab laws and Arab punishment.

Westerners really have no business going there or anywhere like it, we're too different.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Sandor Clegane wrote: »

To be honest I have no sympathy for any westerner that goes to places like Dubai and then for whatever reason ends up on the wrong side of their laws.

It's an Arab country with Arab laws and Arab punishment.

Westerners really have no business going there or anywhere like it, we're too different.

The problem is that Dubai has two faces, two legal systems in fact. It looks western in many ways, and it is on many ways. Then it isn’t.

awec

Tourists can drink in hotels (but it's incredibly expensive, €15+ for a pint).

Non-muslim residents can get alcohol licenses to allow them to buy booze and drink it at home.

No matter where you buy or consume it you cannot be drunk in the street. I don't think "drunk" is properly defined, it could mean you can't be on the street if you have had a glass of wine that day.

awec

awec wrote: »

Tourists can drink in hotels (but it's incredibly expensive, €15+ for a pint).

Non-muslim residents can get alcohol licenses to allow them to buy booze and drink it at home.

No matter where you buy or consume it you cannot be drunk in the street. I don't think "drunk" is properly defined, it could mean you can't be on the street if you have had a glass of wine that day.

There is no shortage of places to drink its not confined to hotels by any means. Its not as abundant as here but you wont have to walk far to find a pub (yes there are normal pubs dotted around though they are made to look like just any other building), hotel or some other designated area where drinking is allowed. Its expensive but no where near 15 euro a pint, 8 to 10 euro a pint but they do happy hours or wrist bands where you can drink all you want for 2 hours or whatever for a set fee in many places.

Its not just for tourists its mostly western people living there (the place is full of Irish) but plenty of locals will be in drinking too in their full robes etc.

I have to say I had a similar impression to many people here but after visiting its far far more westernised that I thought it was.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Samara Old Globe wrote: »

There is no shortage of places to drink its not confined to hotels by any means. Its not as abundant as here but you wont have to walk far to find a pub (yes there are normal pubs dotted around though they are made to look like just any other building), hotel or some other designated area where drinking is allowed. Its expensive but no where near 15 euro a pint, 8 to 10 euro a pint but they do happy hours or wrist bands where you can drink all you want for 2 hours or whatever for a set fee in many places.

Its not just for tourists its mostly western people living there (the place is full of Irish) but plenty of locals will be in drinking too in their full robes etc.

That’s probably the Dubai marina. Being drunk is still a crime outside of those pubs and a serious one.

It depends on enforcement but i wouldn’t go around singing up the ra along residential streets.

JohnCleary

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

You got lucky. It fully depends on the immigration officer. Also she’s a woman. The immigration officer might have tougher views on women and drink.

I was making the point that this article has nothing to do with alcohol.

The subject of this article had a visa issue. She then went on to start recording an Immigration Officer with her phone. What kind of a special idiot does that?! (If you think nothing of that, you obviously haven't seen much if the world)

suicide_circus

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

That’s probably the Dubai marina. Being drunk is still a crime outside of those pubs and a serious one.

It depends on enforcement but i wouldn’t go around singing up the ra along residential streets.

give the cops a few bars of "come out ye blacks in tans"