GAA is on it's knees and we need help

Computer Science Student · 02-08-2018 11:25pm #1

It's time the game got cleaned up, turned into a proper professional organization, and expanded its operation overseas. Dicuss

Twenty Grand · 02-08-2018 11:29pm

It's already got football and hurling.

Why does it need discus too?

Computer Science Student · 02-08-2018 11:31pm

Twenty Grand wrote: »

It's already got football and hurling.

Why does it need discus too?

No upvotes yet, that must really hurt for a guy like you

FrancieBrady · 02-08-2018 11:34pm

It don't matter.

Twenty Grand · 02-08-2018 11:46pm

Computer Science Student wrote: »

No upvotes yet, that must really hurt for a guy like you

I've got one now. I'm happy

ProudDUB · 03-08-2018 12:10am

Hi Ewan.

jimmycrackcorm · 03-08-2018 12:22am

Twenty Grand wrote:

Why does it need discus too?

Is the only chance Leitrim has of winning anything.

aidan24326 · 03-08-2018 5:40am

Computer Science Student wrote: »

It's time the game got cleaned up, turned into a proper professional organization, and expanded its operation overseas. Dicuss

So it can become like professional soccer? Soulless and money-driven?

Nah, we'll pass on that one. But thanks anyway.

PS Premier League is starting in a week or so, you'll be grand.

03-08-2018 6:05am

aidan24326 wrote: »

So it can become like professional soccer? Soulless and money-driven?

Nah, we'll pass on that one. But thanks anyway.

It can't.

Professionalism means players become employees, with all that that implies...including the choice to move to new employers and transfer from club or county.

The suggestion that the GAA is on its knees is nonsense. But professionalism would certainly hit it hard and possibly bring it to its knees as it would end the club/county allegiance. So here in Kerry, the best players can get jobs, sponsored cars and benefit dinners...but the GAA needs the fig leaf of amateurism. They sell it as a virtue, how often do we hear that the players have to get up for work on Monday. In fact it's a necessity.

Fr Tod Umptious · 03-08-2018 10:27am

Professionalism would see the death of intercounty GAA as we know it.

In a population of about 4.5m there would only be a capacity to keep 6 teams employed for football for example.

One in Dublin
One in the rest of Leinster
One in Kerry
One in the rest of Munster
One in Connacht
One in Ulster.

What them 6 teams would do I have no idea.

But the GAA counld not generate enough regular income to pay 25 odd players per team plus staff in the current structure in a country the size of Ireland.

Westernyelp · 03-08-2018 10:32am

Computer Science Student wrote:

It's time the game got cleaned up, turned into a proper professional organization, and expanded its operation overseas. Dicuss

You've been reading to many exam questions

Stoner · 03-08-2018 10:42am

A sleeping giant

Clareman · 03-08-2018 10:56am

Ireland isn't big enough for a large professional sport at any level in my opinion. Rugby has 4 professional teams and for years they only had 3, the international game is what is keeping that afloat. Soccer can't cope with a 10 team top division, 2 of the teams can't even afford to play their players.

Without an international market the GAA isn't going to grow, the Sky deal was a huge move for them, they seem to be getting traction in the US, especially for hurling, the 11 a-side thing in Chicago was a huge success.

Say what you want about the GAA but they are getting the crowds to matches, the 2 All Ireland semi finals had more spectators at them than any Irish international Rugby or Soccer had in the Aviva.

Finally, it appears to me that the GAA are finally getting an idea of the infrastructure that they have around the country and that they don't need to just use Croke Park, Ed Sheeran played in 2 stadiums that normally wouldn't have been opened up, hopefully they'll use the grounds more.

Computer Science Student · 03-08-2018 11:46am

Same old backward thinking as always. This is why the GAA will never be anything more than it is.

StupidLikeAFox · 03-08-2018 12:08pm

Show some ambition lads. I would be looking forward to seeing the AIG Dublin Blue Sox take on the Brady Ham White Knights of Kildare in the Adidas Hyper-Dome in Drumcondra.

Half time entertainment could be provided by Katie Perry and the Artane hip-hop crew, 10 minute commercial break at the end of each quarter & pyrotechnics on Samsung Hill 16 everytime the Blue Sox put the ball in the goalbag.

Clareman · 03-08-2018 12:11pm

Computer Science Student wrote: »

Same old backward thinking as always. This is why the GAA will never be anything more than it is.

The most successful and popular sport played on a island, an organisation with a presence in every parish, an organisation with the best & most facilities in the country and an organisation which runs 4 sports.

That's enough to be doing I think

marvin80 · 03-08-2018 12:13pm

Computer Science Student wrote: »

Same old backward thinking as always. This is why the GAA will never be anything more than it is.

They've re-vamped the football and hurling championships this year - that's forward thinking (even if people don't like the changes, at least there trying something new).

Clareman · 03-08-2018 12:13pm

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

Show some ambition lads. I would be looking forward to seeing the AIG Dublin Blue Sox take on the Brady Ham White Knights of Kildare in the Adidas Hyper-Dome in Drumcondra.

Half time entertainment could be provided by Katie Perry and the Artane hip-hop crew, 10 minute commercial break at the end of each quarter & pyrotechnics on Samsung Hill 16 everytime the Blue Sox put the ball in the goalbag.

Very good point, they should be showing more ambition, firstly they should be looking to wipe out every other sport in the country, they could do that by banning players playing other sports, ah f**k it they got rid of that 50 years ago.

As bad and all as the GAA is, they aren't the worst and except for some local g0bsh1tes everywhere it's all fairly ran.

Turnipman · 03-08-2018 12:15pm

"GAA is on it's knees and we need help"

Would the help that is needed include improving GAA supporters' use of the apostrophe?

Clareman · 03-08-2018 12:19pm

As cumbersome as the change process is at least it's a transparent and democratic process. If you want to make a change you put the proposal to your county board who then brings it to congress who debate it for & against and then vote on it.

Road-Hog · 03-08-2018 6:36pm

Computer Science Student wrote: »

Same old backward thinking as always. This is why the GAA will never be anything more than it is.

Don’t think this guy is anything more than a ‘WUM’ or a troll......he needs to regress back underneath the bridge/rock he crept out from under and stick to threads/comments on ‘anorak/insecure topics’ as statistical regression and the like.......!

Coillte_Bhoy · 03-08-2018 6:37pm

Computer Science Student wrote: »

Same old backward thinking as always. This is why the GAA will never be anything more than it is.

Just so we know. Could you outline what you specifically think is backward thinking in the posts so far?

Coillte_Bhoy · 03-08-2018 6:42pm

Clareman wrote: »

Say what you want about the GAA but they are getting the crowds to matches, the 2 All Ireland semi finals had more spectators at them than any Irish international Rugby or Soccer had in the Aviva.

Thats a spurious argument in fairness, if the FAI had access to Croke Park for the World Cup play off i think we would have seen a sell out or near enough and the IRFU certainly would sell it out for the 6 Nations games and bigger tests

Edgware · 03-08-2018 7:25pm

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Thats a spurious argument in fairness, if the FAI had access to Croke Park for the World Cup play off i think we would have seen a sell out or near enough and the IRFU certainly would sell it out for the 6 Nations games and bigger tests

The IRFU built a new stadium with a capacity of 30000 less than Croke Park. Not exactly a show of ambition. Of course they get a bit of rent from the FAI who use it for their usual playoff defeats

flas · 03-08-2018 7:32pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It can't.

Professionalism means players become employees, with all that that implies...including the choice to move to new employers and transfer from club or county.

The suggestion that the GAA is on its knees is nonsense. But professionalism would certainly hit it hard and possibly bring it to its knees as it would end the club/county allegiance. So here in Kerry, the best players can get jobs, sponsored cars and benefit dinners...but the GAA needs the fig leaf of amateurism. They sell it as a virtue, how often do we hear that the players have to get up for work on Monday. In fact it's a necessity.

About 6.6 million live on the island, the GAA is an all island sport... Scotland have professional football leagues with nearly a million less people , so does many other countries around our size...its the question if people would keep up the interest to go weekly all over the country every second weekend for 8 months of the year.. Then it would go like the other professional league on this island, you would have the few thousand die hards who go every weekend and teams would spend more than they have and the realities hit hard then.. Keep it the way it is, change the championship structure,

Clareman · 03-08-2018 9:21pm

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Thats a spurious argument in fairness, if the FAI had access to Croke Park for the World Cup play off i think we would have seen a sell out or near enough and the IRFU certainly would sell it out for the 6 Nations games and bigger tests

The GAA built a stadium around a bigger pitch for a bigger crowd because they knew they'd be able to fill it, the IRFU/FAI built a stadium around a smaller pitch to suit their needs. If I remember correctly the FAI didn't fill Croke Park for any match and that included a World Cup playoff against France.

Coillte_Bhoy · 03-08-2018 9:36pm

Clareman wrote: »

The GAA built a stadium around a bigger pitch for a bigger crowd because they knew they'd be able to fill it, the IRFU/FAI built a stadium around a smaller pitch to suit their needs. If I remember correctly the FAI didn't fill Croke Park for any match and that included a World Cup playoff against France.

Ya in fairness you're right about the France game. Were the IRFU constricted in some way with the redevelopment? It does seem a bit shortsighted in retrospect though at t he time im not sure we had the rugby bandwagon in full flow as we do now

03-08-2018 9:40pm

Clareman wrote: »

The GAA built a stadium around a bigger pitch for a bigger crowd because they knew they'd be able to fill it, the IRFU/FAI built a stadium around a smaller pitch to suit their needs. If I remember correctly the FAI didn't fill Croke Park for any match and that included a World Cup playoff against France.

The world cup play-off had 74,000, which was capacity.

_brendand_ · 03-08-2018 10:24pm

Clareman wrote: »

Ireland isn't big enough for a large professional sport at any level in my opinion. Rugby has 4 professional teams and for years they only had 3, the international game is what is keeping that afloat. Soccer can't cope with a 10 team top division, 2 of the teams can't even afford to play their players.

Without an international market the GAA isn't going to grow, the Sky deal was a huge move for them, they seem to be getting traction in the US, especially for hurling, the 11 a-side thing in Chicago was a huge success.

Say what you want about the GAA but they are getting the crowds to matches, the 2 All Ireland semi finals had more spectators at them than any Irish international Rugby or Soccer had in the Aviva.

Finally, it appears to me that the GAA are finally getting an idea of the infrastructure that they have around the country and that they don't need to just use Croke Park, Ed Sheeran played in 2 stadiums that normally wouldn't have been opened up, hopefully they'll use the grounds more.

I think you're right. One of Gaelic football or soccer needs to be gotten rid of. Getting rid of Gaelic games altogether wouldn't go down well so Hurling should be kept around, mighty sport as it is. Football is a big load of ****e so no-one will really miss it except for maybe the Kingdom. Dublin are winning it all the time anyway and the Dubs will be grand occupying themselves with just soccer and Rugby.

Dr_serious2 · 03-08-2018 10:47pm

_brendand_ wrote: »

I think you're right. One of Gaelic football or soccer needs to be gotten rid of. Getting rid of Gaelic games altogether wouldn't go down well so Hurling should be kept around, mighty sport as it is. Football is a big load of ****e so no-one will really miss it except for maybe the Kingdom. Dublin are winning it all the time anyway and the Dubs will be grand occupying themselves with just soccer and Rugby.

Great idea there, brendand thinks we should just get rid of Gaelic football so we'll do that. I have informed the sold out crowd for the Donegal-Tyrone match this weekend that there will be no game as Gaelic football had been disbanded on brendands orders but that Dungannon Swifts and Finn Harps are both playing if they'd like to watch that instead. My own local club are also through to a county final for the first time in decades in the Gaelic as well but they will understand that because Brendand has decreed that their sport is 'a big load of ****e' that it is no longer going ahead.

I'd say ya wouldn't kick your own arse with your heel brendand.

Clareman · 03-08-2018 11:48pm

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Ya in fairness you're right about the France game. Were the IRFU constricted in some way with the redevelopment? It does seem a bit shortsighted in retrospect though at t he time im not sure we had the rugby bandwagon in full flow as we do now

They built in the middle of D4 so they were very restricted but I'm sure they could have gone up a few more tiers or did something about the underdeveloped end, why can't we finish off our main stadiums and only have them top class on 3 of the 4 sides?

Clareman · 03-08-2018 11:50pm

Deleted User wrote: »

The world cup play-off had 74,000, which was capacity.

Munster Leinster had over 80k in Croke Park. Then again the soccer might have had to install seats on the Hill, if the France game was capacity it was the only time that soccer filled Croke Park

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_non-Gaelic_games_played_in_Croke_Park#Association_football_(soccer)

Sycamore Tree · 03-08-2018 11:54pm

The treatment of GAA referees is a major issue for me. I was a referee myself but gave it up.
They get dogs abuse on and off the field. It's very poor example for young people too.

JustJoe7240 · 03-08-2018 11:55pm

Clareman wrote: »

They built in the middle of D4 so they were very restricted but I'm sure they could have gone up a few more tiers or did something about the underdeveloped end, why can't we finish off our main stadiums and only have them top class on 3 of the 4 sides?

You mean the lower end? Pretty obviously built that way due to planning reasons.

nice_guy80 · 03-08-2018 11:57pm

Twenty Grand wrote: »

It's already got football and hurling.

Why does it need discus too?

You forgot handball

Clareman · 04-08-2018 12:03am

nice_guy80 wrote: »

You forgot handball

And Rounders, don't forget Rounders

Clareman · 04-08-2018 12:05am

JustJoe7240 wrote: »

You mean the lower end? Pretty obviously built that way due to planning reasons.

According to Wiki it's exactly for that reason, I'm sure if they pushed hard enough they could have gotten a compulsory purchase but IMO it's plenty big, when grounds get too bug they can lose their "exclusive" factory, just look at Thomond Park.

Clareman · 04-08-2018 12:07am

Sycamore Tree wrote: »

The treatment of GAA referees is a major issue for me. I was a referee myself but gave it up.
They get dogs abuse on and off the field. It's very poor example for young people too.

Years ago when I was a ref we used to go to different teams training sessions to ref training games, this was to explain decisions and work with players, when that used to happen players really respected refs and understood, refs used to explain stuff to the players as well, this seems to have been reversed in recent years.

Coillte_Bhoy · 04-08-2018 12:47am

Clareman wrote: »

Munster Leinster had over 80k in Croke Park. Then again the soccer might have had to install seats on the Hill, if the France game was capacity it was the only time that soccer filled Croke Park

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_non-Gaelic_games_played_in_Croke_Park#Association_football_(soccer)

Actually those attendances are quite astonishing really. 70k + for games V Wales and Sloavkia. Ireland has always attracted big crowds in comparison to nations of similar size, i'ts a bit off topic ya but something that's not often acknowledged

04-08-2018 5:42am

Clareman wrote: »

Munster Leinster had over 80k in Croke Park. Then again the soccer might have had to install seats on the Hill, if the France game was capacity it was the only time that soccer filled Croke Park

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_non-Gaelic_games_played_in_Croke_Park#Association_football_(soccer)

So in conclusion we can say that soccer and Gaelic games have both sold out Croke Park and not sold out Croke Park...

Clareman · 04-08-2018 8:37am

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Actually those attendances are quite astonishing really. 70k + for games V Wales and Sloavkia. Ireland has always attracted big crowds in comparison to nations of similar size, i'ts a bit off topic ya but something that's not often acknowledged

There was a huge interest in the first games in Croke Park, people just wanted to see "foreign games" in Croke Park.

Clareman · 04-08-2018 8:38am

Deleted User wrote: »

So in conclusion we can say that soccer and Gaelic games have both sold out Croke Park and not sold out Croke Park...

In conclusion we can say that soccer "may" have filled Croke Park once and had an average attendance of 59,194 when they played games in Croke Park which seems to suggest that the Aviva is about the right size.

Clareman · 04-08-2018 8:47am

Actually, something to realise is that Croke Park was opened up just as the recession was kicking in so it's fair to say that attendances were down everywhere. But if we are to use Croke Park being opened up as a barometer for how the GAA is fairing against other sports I think it's fair to say it's doing OK.

Coillte_Bhoy · 04-08-2018 9:13am

Clareman wrote: »

There was a huge interest in the first games in Croke Park, people just wanted to see "foreign games" in Croke Park.

Of course thats a factor but even so we do get very big crowds for home internationals, so while there are many reasons to slag off the FAI this isn't one of them

Coillte_Bhoy · 04-08-2018 9:16am

Clareman wrote: »

In conclusion we can say that soccer "may" have filled Croke Park once and had an average attendance of 59,194 when they played games in Croke Park which seems to suggest that the Aviva is about the right size.

It is for soccer anyway. Personally i preferred the old Landsdowne with a 33,000 capacity. Far better atmosphere as far fewer 'tourists'.

Fr Tod Umptious · 04-08-2018 10:01am

Clareman wrote: »

Actually, something to realise is that Croke Park was opened up just as the recession was kicking in so it's fair to say that attendances were down everywhere. But if we are to use Croke Park being opened up as a barometer for how the GAA is fairing against other sports I think it's fair to say it's doing OK.

I don't think you should use the big games or big stadium as a baromoter at all, use the small stadium and the small game.

Rugby is flavour of the month this last decade or so, but as you go down the levels from internationals, to champions cup, to challenge cup to Celtic league, to all Ireland league the fall off in numbers is dramatic.
Tickets for an international are gold dust, but all Ireland league is one man and his dog territory.

The same but different in soccer, by the time you work through the crowd traveling to England on a Saturday, the internationals by the time you get to the LOI first division the numbers are tiny.

In the GAA it's different, the support for the lower level runs deep.
People will be saying Croke Park was only half full, but at the very same time thounadns upon thousands will be at club games at all levels all over the country.

Clareman · 04-08-2018 10:30am

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I don't think you should use the big games or big stadium as a baromoter at all, use the small stadium and the small game.

Rugby is flavour of the month this last decade or so, but as you go down the levels from internationals, to champions cup, to challenge cup to Celtic league, to all Ireland league the fall off in numbers is dramatic.
Tickets for an international are gold dust, but all Ireland league is one man and his dog territory.

The same but different in soccer, by the time you work through the crowd traveling to England on a Saturday, the internationals by the time you get to the LOI first division the numbers are tiny.

In the GAA it's different, the support for the lower level runs deep.
People will be saying Croke Park was only half full, but at the very same time thounadns upon thousands will be at club games at all levels all over the country.

In my opinion Munster f**ked up making Thomond so big when they did it up, it's terrible for most matches now, I'd nearly say Musgrave is better atmosphere now.it's not possible to get an accurate look at rugby attendances because they include season tickets in the sales.

The average attendance at a league of Ireland match is just short of 1,500 (http://www.extratime.ie/articles/21267/league-of-ireland-attendances-2018----the-story-so-far/) I'd imagine a lot of local club games would have higher attendances than that.

What the GAA has as a massive advantage is the ability to adjust their games to suit their needs, rugby or soccer wouldn't be able to implement the round Robin or super 8s as easily as the GAA can.

endacl · 04-08-2018 10:33am

Computer Science Student wrote: »

Same old backward thinking as always. This is why the GAA will never be anything more than it is.

What it is is pretty impressive.

The Lost Sheep · 04-08-2018 7:38pm

Computer Science Student wrote: »

It's time the game got cleaned up, turned into a proper professional organization, and expanded its operation overseas. Dicuss

The rule book needs cleaning up but while a professional element at the top would be fantastic its unrealistic but semi professionalism possibly could work.

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Professionalism would see the death of intercounty GAA as we know it.

In a population of about 4.5m there would only be a capacity to keep 6 teams employed for football for example.

One in Dublin
One in the rest of Leinster
One in Kerry
One in the rest of Munster
One in Connacht
One in Ulster.

What them 6 teams would do I have no idea.

But the GAA counld not generate enough regular income to pay 25 odd players per team plus staff in the current structure in a country the size of Ireland.

Not necessarily. You could certainly look at more teams in some of the provinces with population etc. Cork could field on their own. Another 2/3 in Leinster.

Clareman wrote: »

Ireland isn't big enough for a large professional sport at any level in my opinion. Rugby has 4 professional teams and for years they only had 3, the international game is what is keeping that afloat. Soccer can't cope with a 10 team top division, 2 of the teams can't even afford to play their players.

Without an international market the GAA isn't going to grow, the Sky deal was a huge move for them, they seem to be getting traction in the US, especially for hurling, the 11 a-side thing in Chicago was a huge success.

Say what you want about the GAA but they are getting the crowds to matches, the 2 All Ireland semi finals had more spectators at them than any Irish international Rugby or Soccer had in the Aviva.

Finally, it appears to me that the GAA are finally getting an idea of the infrastructure that they have around the country and that they don't need to just use Croke Park, Ed Sheeran played in 2 stadiums that normally wouldn't have been opened up, hopefully they'll use the grounds more.

As a former very frequent poster in rugby forum you should know better...
Rugby always did have 4 provinces pro. Connacht always been pro. Not supported enough but yes international rugby keeps things afloat. Same in all countries.

Edgware wrote: »

The IRFU built a new stadium with a capacity of 30000 less than Croke Park. Not exactly a show of ambition. Of course they get a bit of rent from the FAI who use it for their usual playoff defeats

IRFU would have built bigger stadium if they were able to on the Lansdowne site but they couldnt. 50000k is more than enough.

Clareman wrote: »

They built in the middle of D4 so they were very restricted but I'm sure they could have gone up a few more tiers or did something about the underdeveloped end, why can't we finish off our main stadiums and only have them top class on 3 of the 4 sides?

They built on base on old stadium as it made more sense than going to a greenfield site and they couldnt have went up more tiers or done anything about the havelock square end because of the proximity of houses at that end

Sycamore Tree wrote: »

The treatment of GAA referees is a major issue for me. I was a referee myself but gave it up.
They get dogs abuse on and off the field. It's very poor example for young people too.

Will never change as will take very long change of culture for it to happen. Rule book needs to be changed to help referees and proper sanctions at top level first to start to improve treatment of refs at all levels

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I don't think you should use the big games or big stadium as a baromoter at all, use the small stadium and the small game.

Rugby is flavour of the month this last decade or so, but as you go down the levels from internationals, to champions cup, to challenge cup to Celtic league, to all Ireland league the fall off in numbers is dramatic.
Tickets for an international are gold dust, but all Ireland league is one man and his dog territory.

The same but different in soccer, by the time you work through the crowd traveling to England on a Saturday, the internationals by the time you get to the LOI first division the numbers are tiny.

In the GAA it's different, the support for the lower level runs deep.
People will be saying Croke Park was only half full, but at the very same time thounadns upon thousands will be at club games at all levels all over the country.

Rugby is more than flavour of the month. Its been pretty solidly growing for about two decades, ever since provinces started playing more often and then more successfully.
Petty go at club rugby. Numbers are not tiny.

LeoB · 07-08-2018 11:19pm

flas wrote: »

About 6.6 million live on the island, the GAA is an all island sport... Scotland have professional football leagues with nearly a million less people , so does many other countries around our size...its the question if people would keep up the interest to go weekly all over the country every second weekend for 8 months of the year.. Then it would go like the other professional league on this island, you would have the few thousand die hards who go every weekend and teams would spend more than they have and the realities hit hard then.. Keep it the way it is, change the championship structure,

Scotland has really about 6 or 7 professional teams. Take out Glasgow Edinburgh, Dundee and Aberdeen and you teams that would not beat L.O.I sides. Most clubs outside the top 6-8 are semi-pro. They cant afford it as the crowds are really small outside the S.P.L.
If the GAA went down the road of professionalism it would be broke in about 2 or 3 years. How would a successful county like Galway, Cork or Dublin support a fulltime Hurling and football squad? When you take out the top few sides there is not the support base to sustain a professional game. Rugby manage through corporate sponsorship, League of Ireland club are in serious trouble trying to keep a squad of 15-18 on the road for 9 months

The GAA is ever evolving but I think despite some mistakes are improving year or trying to improve year on year.

It is a great organisation and long may it continue to flourish.

The biggest problem facing any GAA club or any sport for that matter is volunteerism which is diminishing. With various scandals in sports people feel it is becoming "dangerous" to be in charge of teams especially a juvenile team where you have parents on sidelines just waiting for the mentor/coach to do something wrong. I am well aware of child protection and its importance but we need to look at where not just the GAA has gone but all sports.

GAA is on it's knees and we need help

Comments