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GAA is on it's knees and we need help

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    #32
    Clareman
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 23,924 Mod ✭✭✭✭Clareman


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The world cup play-off had 74,000, which was capacity.

    Munster Leinster had over 80k in Croke Park. Then again the soccer might have had to install seats on the Hill, if the France game was capacity it was the only time that soccer filled Croke Park

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_non-Gaelic_games_played_in_Croke_Park#Association_football_(soccer)


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    #33
    Sycamore Tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 796 ✭✭✭Sycamore Tree


    The treatment of GAA referees is a major issue for me. I was a referee myself but gave it up.
    They get dogs abuse on and off the field. It's very poor example for young people too.


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    #34
    JustJoe7240
    Registered Users Posts: 1,440 ✭✭✭JustJoe7240


    Clareman wrote: »
    They built in the middle of D4 so they were very restricted but I'm sure they could have gone up a few more tiers or did something about the underdeveloped end, why can't we finish off our main stadiums and only have them top class on 3 of the 4 sides?

    You mean the lower end? Pretty obviously built that way due to planning reasons.


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    #35
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,723 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    Twenty Grand wrote: »
    It's already got football and hurling.

    Why does it need discus too?

    You forgot handball


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    #36
    Clareman
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 23,924 Mod ✭✭✭✭Clareman


    nice_guy80 wrote: »
    You forgot handball

    And Rounders, don't forget Rounders


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    #37
    Clareman
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 23,924 Mod ✭✭✭✭Clareman


    JustJoe7240 wrote: »
    You mean the lower end? Pretty obviously built that way due to planning reasons.

    According to Wiki it's exactly for that reason, I'm sure if they pushed hard enough they could have gotten a compulsory purchase but IMO it's plenty big, when grounds get too bug they can lose their "exclusive" factory, just look at Thomond Park.


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    #38
    Clareman
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 23,924 Mod ✭✭✭✭Clareman


    Sycamore Tree wrote: »
    The treatment of GAA referees is a major issue for me. I was a referee myself but gave it up.
    They get dogs abuse on and off the field. It's very poor example for young people too.

    Years ago when I was a ref we used to go to different teams training sessions to ref training games, this was to explain decisions and work with players, when that used to happen players really respected refs and understood, refs used to explain stuff to the players as well, this seems to have been reversed in recent years.


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    #39
    Coillte_Bhoy
    Registered Users Posts: 7,888 ✭✭✭Coillte_Bhoy


    Clareman wrote: »
    Munster Leinster had over 80k in Croke Park. Then again the soccer might have had to install seats on the Hill, if the France game was capacity it was the only time that soccer filled Croke Park

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_non-Gaelic_games_played_in_Croke_Park#Association_football_(soccer)

    Actually those attendances are quite astonishing really. 70k + for games V Wales and Sloavkia. Ireland has always attracted big crowds in comparison to nations of similar size, i'ts a bit off topic ya but something that's not often acknowledged


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    #40
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Clareman wrote: »
    Munster Leinster had over 80k in Croke Park. Then again the soccer might have had to install seats on the Hill, if the France game was capacity it was the only time that soccer filled Croke Park

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_non-Gaelic_games_played_in_Croke_Park#Association_football_(soccer)

    So in conclusion we can say that soccer and Gaelic games have both sold out Croke Park and not sold out Croke Park...


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    #41
    Clareman
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 23,924 Mod ✭✭✭✭Clareman


    Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »
    Actually those attendances are quite astonishing really. 70k + for games V Wales and Sloavkia. Ireland has always attracted big crowds in comparison to nations of similar size, i'ts a bit off topic ya but something that's not often acknowledged

    There was a huge interest in the first games in Croke Park, people just wanted to see "foreign games" in Croke Park.


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    #42
    Clareman
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 23,924 Mod ✭✭✭✭Clareman


    Deleted User wrote: »
    So in conclusion we can say that soccer and Gaelic games have both sold out Croke Park and not sold out Croke Park...

    In conclusion we can say that soccer "may" have filled Croke Park once and had an average attendance of 59,194 when they played games in Croke Park which seems to suggest that the Aviva is about the right size.


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    #43
    Clareman
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 23,924 Mod ✭✭✭✭Clareman


    Actually, something to realise is that Croke Park was opened up just as the recession was kicking in so it's fair to say that attendances were down everywhere. But if we are to use Croke Park being opened up as a barometer for how the GAA is fairing against other sports I think it's fair to say it's doing OK.


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    #44
    Coillte_Bhoy
    Registered Users Posts: 7,888 ✭✭✭Coillte_Bhoy


    Clareman wrote: »
    There was a huge interest in the first games in Croke Park, people just wanted to see "foreign games" in Croke Park.

    Of course thats a factor but even so we do get very big crowds for home internationals, so while there are many reasons to slag off the FAI this isn't one of them


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    #45
    Coillte_Bhoy
    Registered Users Posts: 7,888 ✭✭✭Coillte_Bhoy


    Clareman wrote: »
    In conclusion we can say that soccer "may" have filled Croke Park once and had an average attendance of 59,194 when they played games in Croke Park which seems to suggest that the Aviva is about the right size.


    It is for soccer anyway. Personally i preferred the old Landsdowne with a 33,000 capacity. Far better atmosphere as far fewer 'tourists'.


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    #46
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,048 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Clareman wrote: »
    Actually, something to realise is that Croke Park was opened up just as the recession was kicking in so it's fair to say that attendances were down everywhere. But if we are to use Croke Park being opened up as a barometer for how the GAA is fairing against other sports I think it's fair to say it's doing OK.

    I don't think you should use the big games or big stadium as a baromoter at all, use the small stadium and the small game.

    Rugby is flavour of the month this last decade or so, but as you go down the levels from internationals, to champions cup, to challenge cup to Celtic league, to all Ireland league the fall off in numbers is dramatic.
    Tickets for an international are gold dust, but all Ireland league is one man and his dog territory.

    The same but different in soccer, by the time you work through the crowd traveling to England on a Saturday, the internationals by the time you get to the LOI first division the numbers are tiny.

    In the GAA it's different, the support for the lower level runs deep.
    People will be saying Croke Park was only half full, but at the very same time thounadns upon thousands will be at club games at all levels all over the country.


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    #47
    Clareman
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 23,924 Mod ✭✭✭✭Clareman


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    I don't think you should use the big games or big stadium as a baromoter at all, use the small stadium and the small game.

    Rugby is flavour of the month this last decade or so, but as you go down the levels from internationals, to champions cup, to challenge cup to Celtic league, to all Ireland league the fall off in numbers is dramatic.
    Tickets for an international are gold dust, but all Ireland league is one man and his dog territory.

    The same but different in soccer, by the time you work through the crowd traveling to England on a Saturday, the internationals by the time you get to the LOI first division the numbers are tiny.

    In the GAA it's different, the support for the lower level runs deep.
    People will be saying Croke Park was only half full, but at the very same time thounadns upon thousands will be at club games at all levels all over the country.

    In my opinion Munster f**ked up making Thomond so big when they did it up, it's terrible for most matches now, I'd nearly say Musgrave is better atmosphere now.it's not possible to get an accurate look at rugby attendances because they include season tickets in the sales.

    The average attendance at a league of Ireland match is just short of 1,500 (http://www.extratime.ie/articles/21267/league-of-ireland-attendances-2018----the-story-so-far/) I'd imagine a lot of local club games would have higher attendances than that.

    What the GAA has as a massive advantage is the ability to adjust their games to suit their needs, rugby or soccer wouldn't be able to implement the round Robin or super 8s as easily as the GAA can.


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    #48
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,239 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Computer Science Student wrote: »
    Same old backward thinking as always. This is why the GAA will never be anything more than it is.
    What it is is pretty impressive.


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    #49
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    Computer Science Student wrote: »
    It's time the game got cleaned up, turned into a proper professional organization, and expanded its operation overseas. Dicuss
    The rule book needs cleaning up but while a professional element at the top would be fantastic its unrealistic but semi professionalism possibly could work.
    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    Professionalism would see the death of intercounty GAA as we know it.

    In a population of about 4.5m there would only be a capacity to keep 6 teams employed for football for example.

    One in Dublin
    One in the rest of Leinster
    One in Kerry
    One in the rest of Munster
    One in Connacht
    One in Ulster.

    What them 6 teams would do I have no idea.

    But the GAA counld not generate enough regular income to pay 25 odd players per team plus staff in the current structure in a country the size of Ireland.
    Not necessarily. You could certainly look at more teams in some of the provinces with population etc. Cork could field on their own. Another 2/3 in Leinster.
    Clareman wrote: »
    Ireland isn't big enough for a large professional sport at any level in my opinion. Rugby has 4 professional teams and for years they only had 3, the international game is what is keeping that afloat. Soccer can't cope with a 10 team top division, 2 of the teams can't even afford to play their players.

    Without an international market the GAA isn't going to grow, the Sky deal was a huge move for them, they seem to be getting traction in the US, especially for hurling, the 11 a-side thing in Chicago was a huge success.

    Say what you want about the GAA but they are getting the crowds to matches, the 2 All Ireland semi finals had more spectators at them than any Irish international Rugby or Soccer had in the Aviva.

    Finally, it appears to me that the GAA are finally getting an idea of the infrastructure that they have around the country and that they don't need to just use Croke Park, Ed Sheeran played in 2 stadiums that normally wouldn't have been opened up, hopefully they'll use the grounds more.
    As a former very frequent poster in rugby forum you should know better...
    Rugby always did have 4 provinces pro. Connacht always been pro. Not supported enough but yes international rugby keeps things afloat. Same in all countries.
    Edgware wrote: »
    The IRFU built a new stadium with a capacity of 30000 less than Croke Park. Not exactly a show of ambition. Of course they get a bit of rent from the FAI who use it for their usual playoff defeats
    IRFU would have built bigger stadium if they were able to on the Lansdowne site but they couldnt. 50000k is more than enough.
    Clareman wrote: »
    They built in the middle of D4 so they were very restricted but I'm sure they could have gone up a few more tiers or did something about the underdeveloped end, why can't we finish off our main stadiums and only have them top class on 3 of the 4 sides?
    They built on base on old stadium as it made more sense than going to a greenfield site and they couldnt have went up more tiers or done anything about the havelock square end because of the proximity of houses at that end
    Sycamore Tree wrote: »
    The treatment of GAA referees is a major issue for me. I was a referee myself but gave it up.
    They get dogs abuse on and off the field. It's very poor example for young people too.
    Will never change as will take very long change of culture for it to happen. Rule book needs to be changed to help referees and proper sanctions at top level first to start to improve treatment of refs at all levels
    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    I don't think you should use the big games or big stadium as a baromoter at all, use the small stadium and the small game.

    Rugby is flavour of the month this last decade or so, but as you go down the levels from internationals, to champions cup, to challenge cup to Celtic league, to all Ireland league the fall off in numbers is dramatic.
    Tickets for an international are gold dust, but all Ireland league is one man and his dog territory.

    The same but different in soccer, by the time you work through the crowd traveling to England on a Saturday, the internationals by the time you get to the LOI first division the numbers are tiny.

    In the GAA it's different, the support for the lower level runs deep.
    People will be saying Croke Park was only half full, but at the very same time thounadns upon thousands will be at club games at all levels all over the country.
    Rugby is more than flavour of the month. Its been pretty solidly growing for about two decades, ever since provinces started playing more often and then more successfully.
    Petty go at club rugby. Numbers are not tiny.


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    #50
    LeoB
    Registered Users Posts: 4,254 ✭✭✭LeoB


    flas wrote: »
    About 6.6 million live on the island, the GAA is an all island sport... Scotland have professional football leagues with nearly a million less people , so does many other countries around our size...its the question if people would keep up the interest to go weekly all over the country every second weekend for 8 months of the year.. Then it would go like the other professional league on this island, you would have the few thousand die hards who go every weekend and teams would spend more than they have and the realities hit hard then.. Keep it the way it is, change the championship structure,

    Scotland has really about 6 or 7 professional teams. Take out Glasgow Edinburgh, Dundee and Aberdeen and you teams that would not beat L.O.I sides. Most clubs outside the top 6-8 are semi-pro. They cant afford it as the crowds are really small outside the S.P.L.
    If the GAA went down the road of professionalism it would be broke in about 2 or 3 years. How would a successful county like Galway, Cork or Dublin support a fulltime Hurling and football squad? When you take out the top few sides there is not the support base to sustain a professional game. Rugby manage through corporate sponsorship, League of Ireland club are in serious trouble trying to keep a squad of 15-18 on the road for 9 months

    The GAA is ever evolving but I think despite some mistakes are improving year or trying to improve year on year.

    It is a great organisation and long may it continue to flourish.

    The biggest problem facing any GAA club or any sport for that matter is volunteerism which is diminishing. With various scandals in sports people feel it is becoming "dangerous" to be in charge of teams especially a juvenile team where you have parents on sidelines just waiting for the mentor/coach to do something wrong. I am well aware of child protection and its importance but we need to look at where not just the GAA has gone but all sports.


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