Formula 1 2018: General Discussion Thread

ELM327 wrote: »

I was speaking about winning titles.
Maldonado won in 2012 in a (not best car) williams, does that put him on Hamilton's level :eek:

Man, just stop, you're embarrassing yourself at this stage. Vettel, Ricciardo, Max, Fernando, and Lewis, all have that tiny little bit extra that makes them a bit special. End of.

Lewis hasn't been in the best car his whole career, from '09 to the end of '2013 clearly shows that. His 07/08 car was a winning car, but not dominant by any stretch. His 14/15/16 car was dominant, but he still had a team mate who fought very hard against him. This years car is a challenger, but again, is not dominant either.

Sebastian has been top tier cars for most of his career also.

All of the above mentioned drivers have won races in cars that haven't been the best on the grid.

Lewis' win percentage is actuary information that demonstrates his standard of driving, regardless of how many races are in a season, furthered by Vettel being in top cars just as long.

Ricciardo has shown great speed, overtaking ability, and racecraft, he's shown he can handle the pressure, has the hunger, has the fire when it counts, and absolutely is able to compete with the very best of them.

Max has shown the same, if lacking a bit in experience. That will come.

Anything further than the above is merely school yard bs saying superman would beat batman.

Joeface wrote: »

Therefore Dani Kyatt is number one

All torpedoes eventually run outta fuel

Prisoner 6753 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I think ultimately he was harshly treated by RB. However, what does Verstappen do in his place for the first time? Wins a bloody race

Joeface wrote: »

your for getting , Verstappen go the upgraded RB car that season in his first race and the Merc's did a huge favour for him . Still a good win but was kinda gifted .

Oh I agree, t'was gifted, but he fought valiantly against Kimi to hold his position for quite a few laps. My point is, it didn't help Kvyat when the guy who replaced him won a race in his first attempt. If Max had had a silly incident on lap 1 or something, Daniil might have been looked upon in better light.

Inviere wrote: »

Man, just stop, you're embarrassing yourself at this stage. Vettel, Ricciardo, Max, Fernando, and Lewis, all have that tiny little bit extra that makes them a bit special. End of.

Lewis hasn't been in the best car his whole career, from '09 to the end of '2013 clearly shows that. His 07/08 car was a winning car, but not dominant by any stretch. His 14/15/16 car was dominant, but he still had a team mate who fought very hard against him. This years car is a challenger, but again, is not dominant either.

Sebastian has been top tier cars for most of his career also.

All of the above mentioned drivers have won races in cars that haven't been the best on the grid.

Lewis' win percentage is actuary information that demonstrates his standard of driving, regardless of how many races are in a season, furthered by Vettel being in top cars just as long.

Ricciardo has shown great speed, overtaking ability, and racecraft, he's shown he can handle the pressure, has the hunger, has the fire when it counts, and absolutely is able to compete with the very best of them.

Max has shown the same, if lacking a bit in experience. That will come.

Anything further than the above is merely school yard bs saying superman would beat batman.

Can we have a new term for someone who uses phrases like this?
Like "godwinning" but for "derision and condescending"

Let me put it this way:

Hamilton drove competitive cars, capable at least of winning the odd race his whole career - fact.

Vettel spent more time in midfield cars at Toro Rosso, and actually won a race for them on merit - fact.

Maldonado shares with Vettel the peculiarity of being the only driver to win a race in a non-frontrunner car in recent times - also a fact.

Make what you wish of those

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Let me put it this way:

Hamilton drove competitive cars, capable at least of winning the odd race his whole career - fact.

Vettel spent more time in midfield cars at Toro Rosso, and actually won a race for them on merit - fact.

Maldonado shares with Vettel the peculiarity of being the only driver to win a race in a non-frontrunner car in recent times - also a fact.

Make what you wish of those

Raikkönen in den Lotus doesn't count? 4th in Constructors
Rosberg 2012 neither? 5th in Constructors

Anjobe wrote: »

Also a fact that Vettel has spent more time in a dominant car.

Two years in a midfield Toro Rosso (2007/08)
One year in a title challenging Red Bull (2009)
Four years in a title winning Red Bull (2010/2013)
One year in a 'best of the rest' Red Bull (2014)
Three years in a competitive Ferrai (2015/17)
This year in a title challenging Ferrari (2018)

^^ He's definitely been in cars that are up there, more so than not...very very similar to Lewis, so I don't know why the point is being made that Lewis has been spoiled with good cars. Further, the point is meaningless anyway, part of being a complete driver is learning where to be and when to be there. It makes or breaks legacy's, look at Alonso.

muckwarrior wrote: »

personally I don't think either are the best driver on the grid

Interesting, who would you say tops them in the same machinery? Alonso?

Inviere wrote: »

Two years in a midfield Toro Rosso (2007/08)
One year in a title challenging Red Bull (2009)
Four years in a title winning Red Bull (2010/2013)
One year in a 'best of the rest' Red Bull (2014)
Three years in a competitive Ferrai (2015/17)
This year in a title challenging Ferrari (2018)

^^ He's definitely been in cars that are up there, more so than not...very very similar to Lewis, so I don't know why the point is being made that Lewis has been spoiled with good cars. Further, the point is meaningless anyway, part of being a complete driver is learning where to be and when to be there. It makes or breaks legacy's, look at Alonso.

Indeed, anyone who thinks Hamilton has only had the success he's had because of the cars he's had needs an F1 history lesson. It is the case now,
and always has been and probably always will be, that the best car tends to win the championship, and that the best drivers tend to end up in the best team. Alonso is a remarkable exception, how he has not been in a winning car since 2007 is quite unbelievable.

Anjobe wrote: »

Alonso is a remarkable exception, how he has not been in a winning car since 2007 is quite unbelievable.

I don't think it's that unbelievable, a driver who is prepared to threaten or blackmail his boss about practices he wilfully participated in will not have great reputation. I have no love for Ron but I think Mercedes took note of the whole situation. After that he was apparently too disruptive in Ferrari for them to keep him and they contacted Vettel behind his back. Alonso might have better chances to get back to Ferrari now that Marchionne died but I doubt it. Formula 1 is a team sport and there are signs he is anything but a team player.

Inviere wrote: »

Interesting, who would you say tops them in the same machinery? Alonso?

Regardless of what your opinions of Hamilton are, there's no doubting that Alonso is the best driver on the grid. He's been in the right cars at the wrong times pretty much all of his career since winning the 2 WC he won.


If Alonso was in this year's ferrari he'd be leading the title race now, and possibly won last year too.


But - because of all the backstage antics as mentioned - he'll never get another shot at the big time. He can't go to mercedes, Red Bull wouldnt want him, ferrari wouldnt upset Vettel who is younger and at this stage of Alonso's career a better option for the next few years.

ELM327 wrote: »

Regardless of what your opinions of Hamilton are, there's no doubting that Alonso is the best driver on the grid.

I'm not singing Hamilton's praises here, I feel he's elite, but so is Alonso & Vettel etc. That said, Lewis did beat Fernando in 2007 in the same machinery, so it very much is debatable.