astrofluff wrote: » Bit of a shít day hearing that. Very sad. There'll be a dark cloud over motorsport this week. RIP Sergio.
Prisoner 6753 wrote: » This post has been deleted.
meeeeh wrote: » I don't think Brundle is that bad at all but he comes in package with Croft who is.
Prisoner 6753 wrote: » Brundle is the best commentator out there since Murray Walker retired, my only issue is how he and the rest of Sky treat Hamilton as a god and how dare anyone upset their darling Lewis.
meeeeh wrote: » Actually all debaters are subjective and there is nothing objective in opinion. While I trust some opinions more than others it is still subjective stuff.
Inviere wrote: » I love objective debates, and loathe subjective bias....that stuff belongs in the schoolyard.
H3llR4iser wrote: » regardless of Brundle, Sky and Hamilton fans, Nico has been a top class driver. No shame for anybody being beaten by him.
H3llR4iser wrote: » It is however correct to say that indeed both Lewis and Seb DID drive top cars, capable at least of race wins, for the vast majority of their F1 careers so far.
Inviere wrote: » All true, great post. The only thing I'd add to it is that Lewis had far tougher opposition in Rosberg, than Vettel did with Webber (I say this as a fan of Webber!). Webber, once defeated in 2010, took the biggest back seat going, and never again pushed Seb for the title despite being in the same car. Rosberg had all the tools to beat Lewis, which he eventually did, but it took some doing.
H3llR4iser wrote: » Hamilton: 2014 to 2016, when unless some disaster happened or some big setup mistake was made, only him and Rosberg had a realistic chance at winning; Last season Merc was still the best but Ferrari posed a challenge. This year, they're more or less evenly matched.
We do agree that neither of them, however, had a lot of real "midfield woes", unlike most other drivers.
Anyway, my point was punctually demonstrated by these replies, disregarding objective, verifiable and publicly available data as "opinion" - most of the arguments made in here are circumstantial, made up of thin air and based on preference, support and bias. Fanboy arguments, in one word.
Harika wrote: » Raikkönen in den Lotus doesn't count? 4th in Constructors Rosberg 2012 neither? 5th in Constructors
Anjobe wrote: » Opinion, not fact. The counter opinion is that most of the time after 2008 the McLaren was an uncompetitive dog, and may not have been capable of winning anything with a different driver. Also a fact that Vettel has spent more time in a dominant car.
Frustration at the competitive limitations he was experiencing at one point led Fernando to stipulate that he wanted a veto over technical recruitments, a point confirmed by a source inside Ferrari in 2014. But probably of more significance in this case was the atmosphere the driver’s frustration was lending to the team, regardless of how hard he was working. “I had the feeling that Fernando had got it into his mind that he could never win with Ferrari,” said Montezemolo, “and that if he was in a Mercedes he could win with one hand and this was very demotivating for everyone. Let me be clear: I believe Alonso is probably the best driver in the world even today – certainly on a Sunday. Maybe not in qualifying, where I think Hamilton and Vettel are maybe faster over one lap, but in the race he is unbelievable – a machine. But we needed motivation and it made me think what we needed for the future. I recalled that when I was trying to convince Michael [Schumacher] to return with us after Felipe’s injury in 2009 he was saying, ‘the guy you need for the future is Vettel’.”
ELM327 wrote: » Regardless of what your opinions of Hamilton are, there's no doubting that Alonso is the best driver on the grid.
Inviere wrote: » Interesting, who would you say tops them in the same machinery? Alonso?
Anjobe wrote: » Alonso is a remarkable exception, how he has not been in a winning car since 2007 is quite unbelievable.
Inviere wrote: » Two years in a midfield Toro Rosso (2007/08) One year in a title challenging Red Bull (2009) Four years in a title winning Red Bull (2010/2013) One year in a 'best of the rest' Red Bull (2014) Three years in a competitive Ferrai (2015/17) This year in a title challenging Ferrari (2018) ^^ He's definitely been in cars that are up there, more so than not...very very similar to Lewis, so I don't know why the point is being made that Lewis has been spoiled with good cars. Further, the point is meaningless anyway, part of being a complete driver is learning where to be and when to be there. It makes or breaks legacy's, look at Alonso.
