Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2018 pt3

Leroy42 wrote: »

The whingeing is what is to come. Just like last year.

3 years now. If he hasn't got the targets then surely he has a list. Or you know, work wirh the world class squad he has.

Jebus, poor MU didn't get the players they wanted yet. He has a great chance to blood new players, try new formations, put pressure on the 1st team regulars.

Instead he basically has said that without his 1st eleven its hard.

This, a year late, is the lead in to a title challenge? This is classic Jose. Poor mouth, sure nobody could expectto win the league with this team.

"World Class Squad"

Aye Smalling, Jones Shaw, Martial, Valencia, Herrera, Mata all world class players. Great point. Not even god Pep could work with some of the players we have.

Cotts72 wrote: »

https://www.balls.ie/football/man-united-fans-start-panic-javier-ribaltas-shock-departure-393460

Balls have am article covering ribalta departure and the fans reactions.. Fairly evident that majority of fans are shocked at what's happening at the club

A guy that 99% of United fans didn't know a year ago takes up position as chief scout and a year later, 98.5% of United fans still don't know of, takes up a higher level job in a different club/nation. You do know this happens in business every single day right? Perhaps he left to better his career.......not because he thought the club is falling apart. What a crock of sh%t!! And the click bait posts from the likes of balls.ie where they pull a few twitter comments to try and cement their article!! When Fellaini signed his contract extension, he had United "fans" on Twitter saying they hoped he died. Does pulling a dozen of those Tweets constitute the mass feeling among United fans????????

clubberlang12 wrote: »

A guy that 99% of United fans didn't know a year ago takes up position as chief scout and a year later, 98.5% of United fans still don't know of, takes up a higher level job in a different club/nation. You do know this happens in business every single day right? Perhaps he left to better his career.......not because he thought the club is falling apart. What a crock of sh%t!! And the click bait posts from the likes of balls.ie where they pull a few twitter comments to try and cement their article!! When Fellaini signed his contract extension, he had United "fans" on Twitter saying they hoped he died. Does pulling a dozen of those Tweets constitute the mass feeling among United fans????????

Not necessarily but posts in this thread over the last few days seem to echo the sentiment! Ive no doubt he left for a better position but one has to wonder if he had any say at united or whether his work was fruitful to any degree

Drumpot wrote: »

United finished level with a city team that goto the champions league semi finals. I would argue that their prioritising the champions league and progression was what gave united any chance of finishing near them. The quality of squads were quite different, according to transfer market website linked below the 2015/16 united squad players who were , at the time, valued over £25 mil were Rooney, Mata and Schweinstiener. City had 8 players - Aguero, Silva, De Bruyne, Kompany, Mangala, Sterling, Toure and Fernandihno.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/manchester-city/kader/verein/281/plus/0/galerie/0?saison_id=2015

You can argue about the valuations but its a decent benchmark to work off. Unless you think just feeling like the teams were equal is a fairer way ?

Why £25m? It seems like you've just picked a completely arbitrary figure to prove a point. If you picked £30m, City had only 3 players (Aguero, de Bruyne, Silva) over that value compared to United's 2 (Rooney and Mata). Not much difference there. Similarly, if you picked £20m, City have 9 players over that value to United's 6. Or £18m, City have 11 players to United's 8. At the arbitrary £25m, City's 8 players to United's 3 represents the most unfavourable ratio out of the above values from a United point of view but that's the one which best supports your point. The players between the £25m and £30m brackets (Kompany, Mangala, Sterling, Toure, Fernandinho)were hardly world beaters either. Kompany was 29 and injury prone - he only made 22 appearances the following season. The general consensus around Mangala if I recall correctly was that he was kind of poor and error prone. Toure was the wrong side of 30 and that following season was probably the beginning of him being phased out of the 1st team. He was still good though and played a lot. Sterling and Fernandinho were good too in fairness.

These transfer market values are complete horsesh*t though. Looking at the 2015/2016 United squad, they note that Martial transferred from Monaco for a fee of £54m then assign him a market value of £7.2m that same summer. According to transfermarkt, Martial had the same market value as Darmian (whose value was less than half of the fee that transfermarkt said he moved for) and a market value that was less than half of what United sold Danny Welbeck for the previous summer.

De Gea, who, at 24, was in the PFA Team of the Year that previous season, United's player of the year the previous 2 seasons, and easily one of the top 5, if not top 3 keepers in the world (arguably the best even then) was given a market value of only £22.5m at the time. The same as Wilfried Bony.

Pogba transferred in 2016 for £94.5m according to transfermarkt, yet they give him a market value of £63m.

As I said these figures are nonsense.

Drumpot wrote: »

And then lets look at money spent since Jose inherited a poorer squad:

2016 City £192 mil United £166mil

I don't think your figures are quite right. According to Wikipedia, City spent £167.15m in 2016 including the transfer of Jesus in January 2017. According to your transfermarkt website, they spent £181m including the Jesus transfer.

According to Wikipedia, United spent £147m that summer, but according to transfermarkt they spent £166.5m.

Drumpot wrote: »

2017 city £285 mil United £147mil

According to Wikipedia, City spent £255.7m in 2017 including the Laporte transfer in January 2018. According to transfermarkt, they spent £265.68m.

According to Wikipedia, United spent £146m. According to transfermarkt, they spent they spent £148m, so you're pretty much spot on again.

Drumpot wrote: »

2018 city £63.27 mil United £74 mil

According to Wikipedia, City spent £63.3m and according to transfermarkt they spent £63.27m so you're correct here.

According to Wikipedia, United spent £66m and according to transfermarkt they spent £74.43m.

However, the figures above (including yours) for 2016 don't account for Ibrahimovic signing on a free. He was a quality player that Mourinho wanted. Mourinho made him the focal point of our attack and he was our top goal scorer that season. By only comparing total transfer expenditures between the two managers as a barometer for the quality that was made available to them means you're completely neglecting the quality of Ibrahimovic and what he contributed to the club for Mourinho. Sanchez likewise. It's quite deceitful on your part.

Drumpot wrote: »

Total: City £540 United £387 = 29% difference between transfer kittys available to each manager. Pep has had £167 million more, that's nearly 2 extra Pogbas.

First of all, your maths is wrong here. Using your figures, City spent 39.5% more than United- not 28%. Incidentally, this would strengthen your point. You measure the difference relative to United's spending. You'd be correct in saying that United spent 29% (really 28.3%) less than City, but down below you say that City spent 30% more which is wrong.

Anyway, there's no reason to believe your figures are even accurate. Adding up the Wikipedia values I cited above brings City's spending to £486m which is somewhat consistent with the figure of £448m in this article which doesn't include the Mahrez fee: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2018/01/30/manchester-city-break-club-record-sign-aymeric-laporte-571m/ and very consistent with the figure of £365.85m in this article(https://talksport.com/football/321929/jose-mourinho-v-pep-guardiola-who-has-spent-most-money-they-took-charge-manchester-united/) which doesn't include the Laporte(~£57m) and Mahrez(£60m) transfers. 365.85 + 57 +60 = 482.85

Adding up the Wikipedia figures for United brings their spending to £359m.

So according to Wikipedia, City sent 35.37% more than United.

Adding up the transfermarkt figures above: City spent £510m. United spent £389m. City spent 31% more than United with these figures.

Again, none of these figures or % differences account for Ibrahimovic and Sanchez. Two world class first team players that Mourinho wanted and got. I'm also not claiming that my figures are accurate, just showing that transfer values change depending on where you look.

Drumpot wrote: »

Why do you feel United should be level with City when they are spending nearly 30% more on a squad that had 5 more players more valuable then the squad Jose inherited ?

You're basing your 8 to 3 ratio here on the 2015/2016 squads on transfermarkt. But the squads Mourinho and Guardiola inherited are the 2016/2017 squads less the players they signed that summer. Using your arbitrary £25m benchmark, City had 7 players valued over £25m when Guardiola arrived at the club. United had 6 when Mourinho arrived. Not much difference there.

Regarding the % difference, City spent about £52m on Bravo and Ederson, neither of them are as good as de Gea for whom Mourinho had to spent nothing. City spent about 52m on Mendy who had no tangible contribution to their title winning season. They also spent £1.7m on Zinchenko who has 14 senior appearances in the last 2 seasons. They spent £4.75m on Marlos Moreno who has been on loan since and has yet to make an appearance for City.

That's £110.5m worth of transfers that are either:
a) Not as good as what Mourinho already had
b) Injured and ineffective
c) Made no significant contribution to City's success.

Furthermore, Ibrahimovic and Sanchez combined are probably worth £70m minimum, despite being signed for free. That pretty much negates your % difference, possibly even reverses it. The 30% argument is nonsense anyway since it completely removes responsibility of the players and managers and suggests that the only way to finish ahead of City is to outspend them.

Personally, I think Mourinho has had the resources available to him to make United a lot more competitive with City than what they have been.

It's late, so I'm open to correction on the points I've made here.

Malcolm to Roma has become soap opera now. Roma even announced the deal and then Barca made bid for him, so Bordeaux have stopped the transfer.

Roma agreed 36 million Euros including all add ons, shame when we were linked with him rumored fee was around 70 million, even for Inter rumored fee was 50 million.

also Sky reported that Chelsea have rejected multiple bids of 55-60 million for Willian from Barca, Barca fan/journalist said not a single bid was made. Looks like Chelsea are setting up the price for him.

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Sky reported that Chelsea have rejected multiple bids of 55-60 million for Willian from Barca, Barca fan/journalist said not a single bid was made. Looks like Chelsea are setting up the price for him.

Makes sense, he isn't good enough for Barca.

He is a solid player but he isn't anything special.

Btw there is a common theme in CBs linked with us.

According to Kicker we are interested in Boateng.
http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/bundesliga/vereine/2018-19/1/tm-news--24931-8760-.html

According to La Republica we are interested in Bonucci
http://ricerca.repubblica.it/repubblica/archivio/repubblica/2018/07/14/sarri-chelsea-si-ora-va-su-alisson-bonucci-tentato-da-mourinho34.html?ref=search

According to Telegraph we are interested in Maguire.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2018/07/23/manchester-united-prepare-transfer-battle-leicester-determined/

All tier 2 sources and linked their national player with ManUtd.

astradave wrote: »

That’s exactly what I mean, but when the Journalist is a fan of the club they will spout the nonsense that there was never an official* bid, as it makes their team look good when deals fall through.

*by this I mean with paperwork and so on

From day 1 that link didn't make any sense, almost nothing by reliable Barca journalists with only Sky reporting it. Looks like Sky are used by Chelsea to play their game.

Thought maguire was younger than 25, so was more on the potential side rather than closing in on what should be his peak years.

Not a massive fan of him - his pace on the turn is a big worry for me - and I know zero about any leadership abilities he has. But the biggest issue, as I said yesterday, is that we are going to be trying to take away one of Leicsters prize players, with only a couple of weeks left in the window. They kept Mahrez for a year despite links away, do we think United are going to push them into selling Maguire in 2 weeks? The fact Maguire doesn't look to be pushing the cause and won't even be back at his club til August makes it even less likely.


Is Maguire just a smoke screen bid? "Oh look, we offered 65million for a CB, what more could we have done?"

Not going to read too much into the stories the tabloids post regarding the transfers, most times seems to not pan out the majority of them.

I do believe it is likely we will sign Willian, if it does happen not sure if it will be cash or swap deal. Would definitely lift the spirits here and going by Chelsea fans the majority online seem ok with selling him.

astradave wrote: »

Personally think it’s Maguires camp putting it out there, and he is in negotiations for a bigger contract and think I seen a report last night/this morning about Leicester holding on to him.

The link in this tweet says that Leicester are trying to get him to sign a new contract with a big increase in his wages.

https://twitter.com/telefootball/status/1021509772934361090?s=21

Another thing that gets me is that none of the usual reliables are the ones getting briefed. Maybe they are on holidays after the WC I dunno, just something about it makes me think it didn’t come from the United Camp

I think it's reported by Journalists who are close to ManUtd camp and also in US to cover preseason.

Even the possibility of signing William is bit meh. Anytime seen guy play he's mostly been very average. No way is he worth that kinda money you seen how Barca jumped at the chance of getting Malcolm soon as it became a better deal.