Topping up a Leap card

JDKB17 · 18-07-2018 12:02AM #1

I was in the city centre last Saturday and needed to top-up my Leap Card, I went to a Spar and asked for €10 to be put on it. I had no cash on me so I used my bank card, when I presented my bank card to the shop assistant he informed that in order to use my bank card to top-up my Leap Card I would need to buy something from the shop. Now I found this quite strange and usually I would've questioned why that would be a policy or I simply would've gone to another store. However, my bus was due in 1 minute and the next one wasn't for 50 minutes so I had no time to argue or go elsewhere.

I'm obviously not the first and I doubt I'll be the last person to fall to this scam. Have I got a leg to stand on in complaining to Spar or even the relevant Ombudsman?

I personally feel as though its a money making scam. I've never come across such a practice in any other Spar or convenience store and I find it quite odd that one would be forced to purchase store goods in order to top-up a Leap Card.

Victor · 18-07-2018 12:36AM

The issue for them is that you were using one card to pay for another. They could have been left nursing a loss.

Many shops impose minimum transaction sizes or fees for small card transactions. However, fees are prohibited for Leap Card.

JDKB17 · 18-07-2018 12:57AM

Victor wrote: »

The issue for them is that you were using one card to pay for another. They could have been left nursing a loss.

Many shops impose minimum transaction sizes or fees for small card transactions. However, fees are prohibited for Leap Card.

So I have been scammed then by being forced to purchase something from the shop in order to top-up my Leap Card?

Came across an article from 2016 whereby the NTA were actively seeking for commuters to report shops that practised charging for Leap Card top-up with a bank card.

As far as I can see it's illegal and it's a scam.

whippet · 18-07-2018 07:24AM

JDKB17 wrote: »

As far as I can see it's illegal and it's a scam.

It’s not illegal and it’s not a scam.

The retailer gets charged for accepting a card for a purchase by the bank. You buy €10 worth it leap credit .. pay for by card .. the shop has to give leap €10 and their bank a small transaction fee .. so they loose money.

LEAP don’t like the fact that retailers do this but all they can do is take the Leap facility off them.

As with anything you are not forced to buy from the retailer and the retailer isn’t obliged to sell to you.

Yourmama · 18-07-2018 07:33AM

Why not top up with your phone and transfer to leap card with your phone? Saves you trip to shop.

Cheshire Cat · 18-07-2018 07:48AM

Yourmama wrote: »

Why not top up with your phone and transfer to leap card with your phone? Saves you trip to shop.

Only works if your phone has NFC functionality. A lot of phones don't.

nuac · 18-07-2018 11:06AM

Title amended from "Retail scam"

Under His Eye · 18-07-2018 01:04PM

Surely leap pay a commission to the shop, similar to mobile top ups?

ohnonotgmail · 18-07-2018 01:18PM

Under His Eye wrote: »

Surely leap pay a commission to the shop, similar to mobile top ups?

I'm sure they do but that would be cancelled out by the banks fee for using a debit card.

sexmag · 18-07-2018 01:22PM

You can download the leap card app,input your card details and then you just put your card up to the phone and add how much credit you want, you won't ever have to use a shop again

ohnonotgmail · 18-07-2018 01:24PM

sexmag wrote: »

You can download the leap card app,input your card details and then you just put your card up to the phone and add how much credit you want, you won't ever have to use a shop again

as somebody else said this only works if your phone has NFC. not all do.

sexmag · 18-07-2018 01:26PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

as somebody else said this only works if your phone has NFC. not all do.

Fair enough but most phones in the last 4 years have nfc functionality,you can also top up online on their site or set up an auto top up,few ways around going into a shop

troyzer · 18-07-2018 01:28PM

Payment discrimination was made illegal in January under EU law. It was mostly designed to ban card percentage transaction fees but it also made it illegal for a merchant to discriminate between cards and cash.

So yes, you do have a case if you want to take it up with the ombudsman. It's under the European Payment Services Directive 2.

18-07-2018 01:37PM

sexmag wrote: »

Fair enough but most phones in the last 4 years have nfc functionality

There's also no iPhone app (due to Apple restrictions), I think there might be a fair few of them around

18-07-2018 01:43PM

sexmag wrote: »

Fair enough but most phones in the last 4 years have nfc functionality,you can also top up online on their site or set up an auto top up,few ways around going into a shop

"NFC will be included in 64% of the mobile phones shipped in 2018, up from 18.2% in 2013"

https://www.nfcworld.com/2014/02/12/327790/two-three-phones-come-nfc-2018/

I think saying most for the past 4 years is a bit of an overstatement.

sexmag · 18-07-2018 02:14PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

"NFC will be included in 64% of the mobile phones shipped in 2018, up from 18.2% in 2013"

https://www.nfcworld.com/2014/02/12/327790/two-three-phones-come-nfc-2018/

I think saying most for the past 4 years is a bit of an overstatement.

Splitting hairs here,I added 2 other options for payments after the app option

Samuel T. Cogley · 18-07-2018 02:36PM

Refusing service on these grounds is not discrimination, therefore they can refuse service if they wish. Nothing illegal. May be a contractual breach with them and leap/visa but that's about it.

18-07-2018 02:41PM

sexmag wrote: »

Splitting hairs here,I added 2 other options for payments after the app option

And how will a 14 year old top up their card if they only realised it was empty when they tried to use it on the way home from school?

punisher5112 · 18-07-2018 02:43PM

Why don't you select auto top up direct from your Visa of bank..

Very easy to set up. Never will you be out of credit or in a panic to get it.

cruizer101 · 18-07-2018 02:44PM

Deleted User wrote: »

And how will a 14 year old top up their card if they only realised it was empty when they tried to use it on the way home from school?

Not many 14 year olds with bank cards, would imagine they be using cash anyway

sexmag · 18-07-2018 02:44PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And how will a 14 year old top up their card if they only realised it was empty when they tried to use it on the way home from school?

Well seeing as most 14 year olds don't have a job and their main source of income is mammy and daddy,call them and have them top up online

Also before you try and rebute
" 91 percent of teenagers, ages 13 to 17, access the internet on cell phones, tablets and other mobile devices at least occasionally."

http://www.growingwireless.com/get-the-facts/quick-facts

Mrs OBumble · 18-07-2018 02:51PM

Cheshire Cat wrote: »

Only works if your phone has NFC functionality. A lot of phones don't.

Set up an auto top-up on your Leap card then.

Victor · 18-07-2018 03:00PM

Deleted User wrote: »

And how will a 14 year old top up their card if they only realised it was empty when they tried to use it on the way home from school?

If they have a debit card, they could withdraw cash / get a cashback.

If they only have cash, minimum Leap Card top-up is €5, typical schoolchild fare €1 or less.

coylemj · 18-07-2018 03:10PM

punisher5112 wrote: »

Why don't you select auto top up direct from your Visa of bank..

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Set up an auto top-up on your Leap card then.

The minimum topup amount when you select auto topup is €30, this gets triggered when your balance goes below €10 so they will have almost €40 of your money every time they do the topup.

The NFC phone app allows you to manually topup by as little as €5. If they reduced the auto topup minimum to €10 I would sign up but not for €30.

messrs · 18-07-2018 03:16PM

Victor wrote: »

The issue for them is that you were using one card to pay for another. They could have been left nursing a loss.

Many shops impose minimum transaction sizes or fees for small card transactions. However, fees are prohibited for Leap Card.

Is this just when you use a debit card to top up? Any time i top up in my local shop there is a 50c Surcharge to do so

punisher5112 · 18-07-2018 03:16PM

coylemj wrote: »

The minimum topup amount when you select auto topup is €30, this gets triggered when your balance goes below €10 so they will have almost €40 of your money every time they do the topup.

The NFC phone app allows you to manually topup by as little as €5. If they reduced the auto topup minimum to €10 I would sign up but not for €30.

I believe it's lower then that now, that was when it 1st came in.

coylemj · 18-07-2018 03:18PM

punisher5112 wrote: »

I believe it's lower then that now, that was when it 1st came in.

Auto Top-Up

Auto Top-Up is the easiest way to Top-Up your TFI Leap Card. If you choose to enable Auto Top-Up, your TFI Leap Card will automatically Top-Up with funds from your bank account whenever your Travel Credit balance falls below €10. You can choose to Auto Top-Up by €30, €40 or €50.

https://about.leapcard.ie/autotop-up

ohnonotgmail · 18-07-2018 03:18PM

punisher5112 wrote: »

I believe it's lower then that now, that was when it 1st came in.

the options are still €30, 40 or 50.

Get Real · 18-07-2018 03:20PM

JDKB17 wrote: »

So I have been scammed then by being forced to purchase something from the shop in order to top-up my Leap Card?

Came across an article from 2016 whereby the NTA were actively seeking for commuters to report shops that practised charging for Leap Card top-up with a bank card.

As far as I can see it's illegal and it's a scam.

You weren't scammed. The shop wasn't charging for your leap card top up. They were charging for use of a bank card.

You had to buy something in the shop as the shop is paid a tiny percentage of the leap fare, say 20cent for a 10euro sale. Now with cash,they get that 20cent.

Paying with card, they have to incur a charge of 50 cent. So it would mean incurring a loss of 40cent on all sole leap transactions with a card. They're a business and its not in their interest. They don't have to sell to you. You could have left and went to another shop or atm. If you had have added on a packet of crisps, they would have just broke even.

And also, you may have misread the article you mention, shops can't charge a leap card top up fee. They can charge a fee for paying by card.

https://www.dublininquirer.com/2015/11/18/an-end-in-sight-to-friction-over-leap-card-top-up-charges/

"There are about 400 agents in Dublin where you can top-up your Leap card. They can charge a fee for processing an electronic payment, like a debit or credit card. But they’re not allowed to levy a fee on that transaction if you’re paying in cash."

punisher5112 · 18-07-2018 03:22PM

Honestly thought it had been lowered.

Still no escuse in this day and age to be out of credit.

Sure what difference does it make as if a regular user as many are, why be the whole time holding others up and the bus as the credit is always negative, then having to search for change, try to top up card and then trying to get change off others or the usual ah look I just topped it up yada yada.

Happens a lot....

5star02707 · 18-07-2018 03:28PM

I get your point OP but the best way to top up without any fees is using the Leap app but your phone needs to have NFC for it or alternatively top up on Luas stations / stops.

That's what i usually do there are many Luas stops and i use their machine to top up my leap card hope that helps

Topping up a Leap card

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