Who exactly is Irish?

A person that by himself, and others, is considered Irish, is Irish.

People often have difficulty defining themselves, so it can help if you instead consider someone else - Nigerian, Italian, Palestinian.
What makes them their nationality?
Can whatever that is be said about you?

Language?
Mannerism?
Attitude towards life?


Consider the things below, do you share these with your friends and family?

Tuatha Dé Danann the rest of yiz can feck off home where ever that may be but it's not here that be fir shure.

Nationality is a nothing more than a artificial political construct.

The One Doctor wrote: »

I can't read that.

I envy you muchly.

fishy_fishy wrote: »

I honestly think youre not culturally Irish if you haven't grown up here, or grown up abroad to Irish raised parent(s) and moved back here before mid teens.

Legally whatever it says on your passport, that bit's obvious, but its not that clear cut culturally. You might be culturally much closer to England, or the USA, or Nigeria, or Turkey if that's where your parents were born and raised, because they're the cultures that influence how your parents raised you. As you get older, those links might weaken and you become more Irish.

I try to think of it like relatives in the states. They've lived there decades, kinda still consider themselves Irish. They're American citizens. So really the definition of Irish Americans. Their grandkids are American. Clear and simple. The 2nd generation - i.e. the parents of the grandkids - well, they're American. But had they all moved back here by their early teens...? They'd probably be more Irish.

If somebody grows up in Somalia until they're 20 and then moves to Ireland for 40 years they'll be very culturally Irish.

MadDog76 wrote: »

Born and raised here to two parents who were also born and raised here who in turn had two parents each that were also born and raised here...... that's my definition of who's truly Irish and no amount of debate, discussion or "what about so and so" nonsense will change my mind.

Well that eliminates some of the most prominent Irish people of the last two centuries including Eamonn de Valera (born in New York to an Irish mother and a Spanish father), Patrick Pearse (English father), James Connolly (born in Edinburgh and apparently had a Scottish accent) and many many others.

OhHiMark wrote: »

fishy_fishy wrote: »

I honestly think youre not culturally Irish if you haven't grown up here, or grown up abroad to Irish raised parent(s) and moved back here before mid teens.

Legally whatever it says on your passport, that bit's obvious, but its not that clear cut culturally. You might be culturally much closer to England, or the USA, or Nigeria, or Turkey if that's where your parents were born and raised, because they're the cultures that influence how your parents raised you. As you get older, those links might weaken and you become more Irish.

I try to think of it like relatives in the states. They've lived there decades, kinda still consider themselves Irish. They're American citizens. So really the definition of Irish Americans. Their grandkids are American. Clear and simple. The 2nd generation - i.e. the parents of the grandkids - well, they're American. But had they all moved back here by their early teens...? They'd probably be more Irish.

If somebody grows up in Somalia until they're 20 and then moves to Ireland for 40 years they'll be very culturally Irish.

Do you really think so? I think they'll be Irish-ish. But spending all your formative years somewhere so vastly different is guaranteed to mean you've cultural differences.

Now, if that person was born to Irish parents and raised in an ex-pat community attending an international school... I might agree with you. But a Somali raised by Somali parents isn't culturally Irish just because they move here as an adult. They'll be like the Irish Americans. Not quite born and bred apple pie eating yanks, but moved on quite a bit from the cupan tae and coddle Irish.

Being Irish, or French, or German or English or anything else is much more than the passport you hold. It's all the values and culture and customs and everything else you were raised with. And that sort of thing roots deeper in childhood. Much deeper.

wakka12 wrote: »

Anyone who's an Irish citizen is Irish , your own opinion of what you consider Irish doesn't hold much water beyond that

That kind of talk is silly though.

We have a culture. It's worth protecting. It's worth recognisng that African drumming or Swiss yodeling isn't part of it and that people can very much be culturally Irish without holdimg an Irish passport (plenty of Irish people hold UK or USA passports), and conversely, someome who holds an Irish passport can very much be culturally not Irish or a mix of cultures.

There's a particular breed of ultra left leaning multiculturalism that pushes the idea that anyone who comes to a country can bring their former country's cultures and we should adapt and recognise them as new parts of our culture. That only puts noses out of joint and fosters a sense of being a guest in your own country. We have a culture. If you haven't been raised with that, but you move here, you're probably straddling several cultures. But it does a disservice to ALL cultures to say someone is Irish or anything else based purely off their passport. There's more to life than a legal document.

If anyone's interested (which you probably aren't) I started a multiple choice poll on this topic precisely asking this 18 months back, 64 pages long, currently has 849 votes.

I think some of the regular posters who posted in it have been banned now, twas the passion it generated.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057675185

How do you define someone who is Irish?
Born and/or brought up in Ireland to Irish parent(s)
Born and/or brought up in Ireland to foreign parents
Someone who moved here as an adult and has since naturalised
Born and brought up abroad to Irish parents