Let's all talk about Lewis?

good driver. not great.
horrible person outside that

Great driver. Horrible character.

He is probably quickest current driver over a lap, Vettel and Alonso are smarter, technically and tactically stronger. He is just plain daft sometimes. Becoming vegan and making big statements about saving the planet and then flying off in private jet just sums him up perfectly.

Can’t put my finger on it, but an oddly unlikable type character. Reminds me of a spoiled sore losing child...petulant would be the description.

Shane_ef wrote: »

Compare his maturity to that of Charles Leclerc this weekend, a World Champion compared to a rookie, speaks for itself in my opinion

I'd agree with all you say, not sure on this bit though. While Charles is doing an utterly superb job, impressing everyone around him, and appears to have a fantastic mentality...it's hard to say for certain until he's in the ultimate pressure pot which is the fight for a world championship. When Le Clerc and Verstappen are fighting for titles, which I've no doubt they will be, it's only then we can safely compare.

Again, I keep harping back to Vettel, but his behavior last year in Baku was utterly appalling, and imo he should have been black flagged. Hamilton certainly has that prima donna thing going on, but he's not always alone.

the problem with lewis out of the Car started for me when he was going for his third in a row and Nico beat him .
He never gave Nico the credit he deserved . It was the only competition he actually had for 3 striaght years and Nico took the three in a row away from him . He was very disrespectful to Nico after it . Very poor sportmanship. You don't have to like everyone but he was beaten by a guy in the same car and should just have congratulated Nico and moved on , he didnt he made stupid comments like he has only beat me once in his whole life.

I think now that he is going for number 5 but the challenger is from outside his team his head is just not able for it.
He was up for Silverstone all weekend but after the bad start , he was gone. even the previous last race when the he ended up behind to have the team put someone on the radio to tell him " you have the car to do it " and trying to talk him round thats a bad sign for the season. He has not been helped either by his team jumping in behind comments saying Ferrari tried to take them out in the last 2 races . Completely stupid on Merc managment to even allow lead team members to make such comments.

Its not just lewis that has flaws , Seb has his flaws too, last year bumping lewis was completely stupid probably should have been punished more , they are all volitale . even listing to Kimi and Alonso over radio it must be hard for the Race engineers to listen to that all the time . The difference between these guys and Lewis is out of the car they take a bit more time and will more than likely take the blame or fault themselves . Lewis need 3 days and may be longer to move on from incidents .

We focus a bit more negative stuff on lewis as well because him in a Merc is the benchmark so he is at the forefront .We ( me included) will fixate on that from time to time. I am reminded however how good he is when you see pole laps like Australian GP this year . I dont think anyone else in that car could do that .

No idea how he will sort his head out but he needs a better approach . I could understand some bit if this was he second last race of the season and the title had just been taken from him , a whole year gone on one race ...yeah mentaly you might die a little but this is still very early in a season and there is only 8 points between them.

Inviere wrote: »

I personally feel Monaco 2014 seriously affected their relationship. Lewis believed, whether rightly or wrongly, that there was hijinx involved in Nico's pole position (intentionally bringing out a yellow flag, to secure pole). They were never the same after that.

Last few posts have been really good.


I think their relationship was getting wobbly that year but, yeah, Monaco completely broke it. Rosberg got immense stick in the media, social media and at various podiums for the next year or so after it. I thought Rosberg was underhanded and deserved the initial stick but he seemed to learn from it.

I supported Lewis up until Austin 2015. Despite being firmly in the Lewis camp I thought Rosberg conducted himself very well that year despite constant digs from Lewis in the media. Hat gate or whatever it was called was the last straw for me. Kicking a dog when it's down isn't cool.

A great driver? Undoubtedly but personally I'll never see him as one of the greats because of his character. A bit like Piquet.

Lewis needs someone akin to a life or mind coach here. He's probably so stressed out with all of the preoccupations of defending his title that when things don't go his way, he lacks the sheer capacity to deal with it. I'm not a Hamilton fan BTW but when he spun on Sunday, my initial reaction was to feel that's he's going to crash again because he's so worked up that he'll throw it away. He's brought the pressure on himself with his trademark cockiness and by talking things up like comparing his performance to that of the England soccer team. Funnily enough for him, taking a chill pill like what his nemesis Vettel now appears to do when he goofs up is no bad thing. A little Hamilton humility would do himself no harm.

But what has compounded his situation last weekend is the equally poor handling of matters post Grand Prix by his team. There were several therein who backed up his poor comments by wondering aloud that Kimi's accident was part of a wider Ferrari conspiracy against Mercedes. That was a ridiculous thing for them to do and IMHO the FIA should've admonished them for that. Personally I think there is more to the team's outspoken behaviour than Raikkonen simply clattering in Hamilton. Mercedes no longer have the luxury of just turning up to win. In Silverstone, Ferrari had the measure of Mercedes on race pace and tyre life, and demonstrably so on a track that Mercedes should've won at a canter. This following Mercedes racing with heavily revised aero package, engine upgrades and even the benefit of the thinner "blister proof" tyres.

This year we have also seen Mercedes question Ferrari's oil consumption, turbo lubrication system, ERS performance and battery operation. All suspicions have since proven baseless. Contrast that with the fact that in the last 4 years, nobody even once questioned what Mercedes were up to.

With Hochenheim coming up, I think Mercedes are worried. Those long straits are bound to suit the now bullet-like Ferrari. Hungary will probably be a duel between Ferrari and Red Bull. No wonder the Merc hierarchy are being so outspoken...they have a serious fight on their hands and upcoming races may well lead to further championship ground being lost. Dear oh dear!

PukkaStukka wrote: »

Contrast that with the fact that in the last 4 years, nobody even once questioned what Mercedes were up to.

A very well written, structured, and thought out post...the above notwithstanding. Mercedes have definitely been on the receiving end of technical investigations, the oil burning advantages, and the FRIC suspension systems come immediately to mind.

PukkaStukka wrote: »

Point taken about FRIC which IIRC had concerned both Mercedes and Red Bull. The oil burning concerned Mercedes and Ferrari and we saw last year that revised oil burning limits seemed to hinder the red cars more than the Mercedes.

From memory, but I'm not 100%, it was something to do with Merc introducing their new spec engine BEFORE the oil burning limits came in, which allowed them to retain the advantage for a certain period. Again, I'm not 100% but I think that's what happened there.

In relation to Ferrari's ERS and twin battery performance this year, The FIA used monitoring software on the ECU to measure the systems to ensure their usage and performance were within the rules. The FIA found nothing amiss.

Likewise, I believe Allison sought "clarification" over the oil and lubrication system applicable to the turbo charger. My reading of how that was worded seemed to invite the FIA to look at what Ferrari were up to. Again nothing further came from that.

Ferrari have been clever, more power to them, that's how to win a championship. Once there's nothing illegal going on, and there seems to be consensus from the FIA that everything's legit, then bring it on. Merc have had the advantage for four years now, lets see them figure it out and fight back.

Maybe I'm naive in this, but this year, Mercedes seem to be running more for the rule book than ever before. And is this "concern" or "paranoia" extending to their no 1 driver? Bottas seem far calmer and more measured. His temperament given his luck this year is commendable.

I'm not convinced Lewis is under any form of pressure that he hasn't experienced before. The fight with Kimi for the 2007 title went to the wire, losing it by one point. The fight with Massa in 2008 went to the bare wire again, with him winning by 1 point. He's had two pretty close seasons with Rosberg too, losing one, winning one...he's pretty familiar with this melting pot of pressure for title fights, plus we're not even midway through the season...things are only going to heat up after the summer.

That said, Lewis never seems to finish the seasons very strongly, whereby Vettel absolutely excels toward the end of a season.

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

I'm not sure there's anything new to say about the guy. There's no way you can watch some of his qualifying sessions, or see him carve his way up from the back (where fast teammates like button or rosberg wouldn't make the same progress), or see that any team principal on the grid would kill to get him in the car, and not see that he's one of the greats. When the helmet goes on, he leaves nothing on the table most of the time, and Lewis on a bad day is still faster than most of the grid, past or present. He's not unbeatable, but neither was fangio, Clark, Schumacher, lauda or senna.

Equally, out of the car you've a pretty good chance that he'll swing between being a smug tosser and a guy who signs autographs all day long. It's unlikely his personality is going to change at this point.

He's human, whether you like him or not, you've probably made up your mind by now.

i agree he is very good . beter than most. but i dont see him a one of the greats. he might make top 10 at a push.
to me has never battled his way up the grid. it is easy to lead the race like he has a lot (so has vettle and schumacher ) but really shows skill to properly overtake .

he also needs to show that ability to nurse the car home with huge problems like schumacher with his gear issue .

he doesnt seem to be able to drive to a odd stratagy like other great drivers.


if he can do that he would be a great driver

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

There have been plenty of examples in his career where he's driven to the front from the back. The drive that got him his f1 seat from gp2 is just one such drive. In the McLaren days, he often ended up behind button and breezed past him, and Button was capable of beating him in qualifying and race pace on more than one occasion.

Top 10 out of all the drivers in history *is* "one of the greats".

I think you're really stretching here.

there is probably only 4-5 true greats .
lewis isnt one yet anyway
being top 10 is still incredibly good

its not about driving from the back to the front. its about battling your way there against all the odds. look at the last race . last to second. great drive but not a ledgendary fight back. most of the cars drove off the racing line to let him past or put up no resistance at all. safety car helped with the last few positions gained. lewis did nothing special there that most really good drivers would have done.

good driver + great car + practically backmarkers= loads of easy positions gained

TCP/IP wrote: »

Now that the Mercedes party modes are less effective we are seeing Hamilton struggle slightly whereas before he was pretty much guaranteed pole and the race win.

It’s reminiscent of Vettel at Red Bull. Years of domination ends in the new regs, and he retreats into his sulky shell, being absolutely obliterated by Ricciardo in the process.

TCP/IP wrote: »

Would agree with you there but that 2014 RB car was not one that suited Seb's driving style and was completely different to the RB cars previously. Also I think Seb had checked out that season as he knew he was not sticking around and was off to join his new team.

Plus he needed to be less than third in the standings at certain point in the season to get out of Red Bull contract. Hamilton was beaten twice by teammates and yet so much is done out of that Red Bull season. I just read an old article on Ferrari machinations that season. It blindsided Alonso completely and he assumed his negotiating position was a lot stronger because they were supposedly no top drivers available for the next year.

TCP/IP wrote: »

What Lewis said about Nico's clothes at the British GP interview just summed him up to be a terrible bitter human being.
I can admit that I am 100% not a fan of Lewis but I respect his four championships but he is a completely horrible human being.

Also, I am not one of the people that buy into this Fernando hype that he is one of the GOAT honestly I don't see it or even close to it.
I think in equal cars over a season Vettel wins every time over Lewis as he is a smarter racer.
Now that the Mercedes party modes are less effective we are seeing Hamilton struggle slightly whereas before he was pretty much guaranteed pole and the race win.

What did he say ?

Seannew1 wrote: »

Great thread! Very good driver(not in the same league as Senna, Prost, Schumacher); however, extremely unlikeable (seems to like rubbing everyone up the wrong way).

Agree. Hamilton is a good driver but it all goes wrong for him when he opens his mouth.