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Let's all talk about Lewis?

Joeseph Balls

I'm not a Lewis hater, nor a fan.
I dislike the guy out of the car but this shouldn't cloud our judgement.
How close is he to being one of the greats?
Driving ability, he has to be up there?
I still think Alonso is a better driver or is this becoming a cliche?
His car has been an advantage, with Ferrari now very close, is it time we give him credit?
Is he just a very good driver, with a very good car, or are we witnessing an all time great?

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the_pen_turner

good driver. not great.
horrible person outside that

Conservatory

A lot of the time I only watch f1 hoping to see him lose

Burkie1203

Joeseph Balls wrote: »

I'm not a Lewis hater, nor a fan.
I dislike the guy out of the car but this shouldn't cloud our judgement.
How close is he to being one of the greats?
Driving ability, he has to be up there?
I still think Alonso is a better driver or is this becoming a cliche?
His car has been an advantage, with Ferrari now very close, is it time we give him credit?
Is he just a very good driver, with a very good car, or are we witnessing an all time great?

Susie Wolff, Mark Webber and Karun Chandhok did apiece for ch4 in 60 year old cars. Webber kept saying how it was pretty much all about the driver.

It's all about the technology now. Hamilton is good but he is not in the same league as Senna or Prost. Engines with party modes etc.

chicorytip

Joeseph Balls wrote:

I'm not a Lewis hater, nor a fan. I dislike the guy out of the car but this shouldn't cloud our judgement. How close is he to being one of the greats? Driving ability, he has to be up there? I still think Alonso is a better driver or is this becoming a cliche? His car has been an advantage, with Ferrari now very close, is it time we give him credit? Is he just a very good driver, with a very good car, or are we witnessing an all time great?

Vettel has more skill than all of his contemporaries combined. The real "greats" of the sport existed from the time of Fangio up to the Prost/Senna era when the cars were proper racing machines and crash protection was virtually non-existent.

Twenty Grand

Theres something wrong with a F1 when you can go from the back of the pack to near the front without breaking a sweat.

The disparity between the big 3 and the rest is unbelievable and detrimental to F1.

flazio

The numbers are in his favour, as they are with Sebastian and Schumacher before them. These days being the best is about so much more than hopping in the car turning the ignition and driving away. It's about negotiating yourself into the best car to hop into in the first place and building a team around that, it's about being a person that people want to get behind and root for, but ultimately it's about putting in the performance when it matters most and Lewis does that. Not 10 times out of 10, probably not even 9 times out of 10. But he does do it.
Like it or lump it negotiating or working up the ranks of the right teams is a valid aspect of being the greatest F1 driver and Vettel did it with Red Bull, Schumacher did it with Benneton and Ferrari and Lewis has done it with McLaren and Mercedes-Benz.

Mike Litoris

Great driver. Horrible character.

Cool_CM

Excellent driver and extremely talented, but thoroughly unlikable. Probably like a lot of other drivers in the past, but the greater public has never had this level of access to them.

Dravokivich

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Theres something wrong with a F1 when you can go from the back of the pack to near the front without breaking a sweat.

The disparity between the big 3 and the rest is unbelievable and detrimental to F1.

It's easier to let them by to reduce the affect on your race. Why try to contain him for a lap or 2? You'll burn more fuel, use more battery. Could impact pit strategy. Hamilton is going to end up amongst the front of the pack later in the race anyhow.

jaxxx

He's a cocky, arrogant little c*nt. I used to be a big F1 fan years ago, but when racing became more about team orders and pit stop strategy rather than actual racing, I quickly lost interest. I remember one of the last races I watched was when he and Button were driving together and he overtook Button and crashed into him.

meeeeh

He is probably quickest current driver over a lap, Vettel and Alonso are smarter, technically and tactically stronger. He is just plain daft sometimes. Becoming vegan and making big statements about saving the planet and then flying off in private jet just sums him up perfectly.

Charlie-Bravo

Lewis is his own worst enemy. Outside the car he undoes all his achievements.

Yes, he's been lucky to have started with McLaren getting one championship, then making a decent career move to Merc for another three. But, he's pretty much been in the one of the top cars for every year he's been in formula 1 (except for the RedBull era). So after 11 years he has 4 championships, 4 for Vettel, one for rosberg, Button and Kimi.

I will say he could have had the 2007 championship but binned it in the gravel (China?), but was lucky to have won over Massa in 2008.

2011

A very good driver that is normally is the very best car. He can be very exciting to watch. Unfortunately he is a bad looser.

The biased commentary turns me off him more than is personality.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

walshb

Can’t put my finger on it, but an oddly unlikable type character. Reminds me of a spoiled sore losing child...petulant would be the description.

Inviere

LIGHTNING wrote: »

I am keeping a close eye on this. If it gets remotely out of hands its being locked

Ahem...

jaxxx wrote: »

He's a cocky, arrogant little c*nt.

Anyway, I'd agree with whoever said above, that he's his own worst enemy at times. A gifted driver, very very fast, but has issues when things don't go to plan. I'm sure the other drivers all feel the things Lewis does, they're just able to handle it better and not usually let things get the better of them.

The "best car" nonsense is often thrown around. He didn't have the best car throughout his career, and he hasn't always had clear #2 drivers in the other team car either, so you're always racing someone who has the same "best car" as you. He (at times) beat Alonso, Button, & Rosberg in the same machinery...that's indication that he's at least a championship level driver, regardless of anything else. Yes Button & Rosberg also beat him too, and that brings me on to the next point...

Sebastion Vettel is another top tier driver imo, very skilled, very talented, and pound for pound, every bit as good as Lewis. Has he had advantages like good cars? Of course he has, his four titles were in arguably the best car on the grid for four years in a row. The only blotch on Seb's record for me is the standard of his teams mates which fuzz his results a little. Webber, Ricciardo, and Kimi. Webber put it right up to him in 2010, and then settled into his #2 driver role. Ricciardo destroyed him in their sole season together, and Kimi has been over the hill for years now, another clear #2 driver.

My point is, the apparent advantages Lewis has had over the years, have been shared by his contemporaries too. You can't use certain examples to berate one driver, and ignore them for others. At the end of the day, Lewis' results (and Seb's), speak for themselves...you don't get to be a x4 WDC by being lucky, you're doing something right.

To close, I do agree though that his temperament needs serious work. It's never going to happen now given the heights he's reached, and he'll continue to be a very divisive figure until he retires. That is something I do wonder about. Is he eyeing equalling or bettering Schumachers 7 titles? He says no, but personally I say yes. I don't see him going for a while yet, and with Seb eyeing the same record, there could be some fun ahoy...

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Sterling Archer

Hi is a talented driver you can't ignore that.. is he "One of the Greats" - No, not yet anyway.

When something doesn't go his way he throws all the toys out of the pram and blames everything except himself.
Outside of the car he is terrible, and his "thanks to the fans" comes across as so so forced (It's is great to actively thank fans tho)

Honestly I think he has become his own worst enemy, he didn't seem to mature very well and deal with the lows of the sport at all, behaving more like a spoilt brant (there could be a case to blame his Dad for this), Looks like his heart isn't in it when he loses, think it might the time for him to consider moving on, and also end to crazy bias on Sky Sports.

Compare his maturity to that of Charles Leclerc this weekend, a World Champion compared to a rookie, speaks for itself in my opinion

Inviere

Shane_ef wrote: »

Compare his maturity to that of Charles Leclerc this weekend, a World Champion compared to a rookie, speaks for itself in my opinion

I'd agree with all you say, not sure on this bit though. While Charles is doing an utterly superb job, impressing everyone around him, and appears to have a fantastic mentality...it's hard to say for certain until he's in the ultimate pressure pot which is the fight for a world championship. When Le Clerc and Verstappen are fighting for titles, which I've no doubt they will be, it's only then we can safely compare.

Again, I keep harping back to Vettel, but his behavior last year in Baku was utterly appalling, and imo he should have been black flagged. Hamilton certainly has that prima donna thing going on, but he's not always alone.

meeeeh

I like Leclerc but he is in F1 3 moths and in a team where every point is a success with a teammate that nobody would miss if he disappears from F1. It's completely different pressure in a team where every race you don't win is a disappointment and where there is constant media scrutiny. Give it a few years and there will be a few tangles with other drivers and plenty of people will dislike Leclerc.

Joeface

the problem with lewis out of the Car started for me when he was going for his third in a row and Nico beat him .
He never gave Nico the credit he deserved . It was the only competition he actually had for 3 striaght years and Nico took the three in a row away from him . He was very disrespectful to Nico after it . Very poor sportmanship. You don't have to like everyone but he was beaten by a guy in the same car and should just have congratulated Nico and moved on , he didnt he made stupid comments like he has only beat me once in his whole life.

I think now that he is going for number 5 but the challenger is from outside his team his head is just not able for it.
He was up for Silverstone all weekend but after the bad start , he was gone. even the previous last race when the he ended up behind to have the team put someone on the radio to tell him " you have the car to do it " and trying to talk him round thats a bad sign for the season. He has not been helped either by his team jumping in behind comments saying Ferrari tried to take them out in the last 2 races . Completely stupid on Merc managment to even allow lead team members to make such comments.

Its not just lewis that has flaws , Seb has his flaws too, last year bumping lewis was completely stupid probably should have been punished more , they are all volitale . even listing to Kimi and Alonso over radio it must be hard for the Race engineers to listen to that all the time . The difference between these guys and Lewis is out of the car they take a bit more time and will more than likely take the blame or fault themselves . Lewis need 3 days and may be longer to move on from incidents .

We focus a bit more negative stuff on lewis as well because him in a Merc is the benchmark so he is at the forefront .We ( me included) will fixate on that from time to time. I am reminded however how good he is when you see pole laps like Australian GP this year . I dont think anyone else in that car could do that .

No idea how he will sort his head out but he needs a better approach . I could understand some bit if this was he second last race of the season and the title had just been taken from him , a whole year gone on one race ...yeah mentaly you might die a little but this is still very early in a season and there is only 8 points between them.

Inviere

Joeface wrote: »

the problem with lewis out of the Car started for me when he was going for his third in a row and Nico beat him .
He never gave Nico the credit he deserved . It was the only competition he actually had for 3 striaght years and Nico took the three in a row away from him . He was very disrespectful to Nico after it . Very poor sportmanship. You don't have to like everyone but he was beaten by a guy in the same car and should just have congratulated Nico and moved on , he didnt he made stupid comments like he has only beat me once in his whole life.

I personally feel Monaco 2014 seriously affected their relationship. Lewis believed, whether rightly or wrongly, that there was hijinx involved in Nico's pole position (intentionally bringing out a yellow flag, to secure pole). They were never the same after that.

Mike Litoris

Inviere wrote: »

I personally feel Monaco 2014 seriously affected their relationship. Lewis believed, whether rightly or wrongly, that there was hijinx involved in Nico's pole position (intentionally bringing out a yellow flag, to secure pole). They were never the same after that.

Last few posts have been really good.

I think their relationship was getting wobbly that year but, yeah, Monaco completely broke it. Rosberg got immense stick in the media, social media and at various podiums for the next year or so after it. I thought Rosberg was underhanded and deserved the initial stick but he seemed to learn from it.

I supported Lewis up until Austin 2015. Despite being firmly in the Lewis camp I thought Rosberg conducted himself very well that year despite constant digs from Lewis in the media. Hat gate or whatever it was called was the last straw for me. Kicking a dog when it's down isn't cool.

A great driver? Undoubtedly but personally I'll never see him as one of the greats because of his character. A bit like Piquet.

Inviere

Mike Litoris wrote: »

A great driver? Undoubtedly but personally I'll never see him as one of the greats because of his character. A bit like Piquet.

Indeed, it's a major blotch on his record. Curious though, will history remember these things, or will he, like Schumacher, be remembered as an all time great despite some questionable examples. I suppose in Schumacher's favour though, he was an absolute gent off the track, despite being fierce on track (actually mirroring the Rosberg incident in Monaco for example).

PukkaStukka

Lewis needs someone akin to a life or mind coach here. He's probably so stressed out with all of the preoccupations of defending his title that when things don't go his way, he lacks the sheer capacity to deal with it. I'm not a Hamilton fan BTW but when he spun on Sunday, my initial reaction was to feel that's he's going to crash again because he's so worked up that he'll throw it away. He's brought the pressure on himself with his trademark cockiness and by talking things up like comparing his performance to that of the England soccer team. Funnily enough for him, taking a chill pill like what his nemesis Vettel now appears to do when he goofs up is no bad thing. A little Hamilton humility would do himself no harm.

But what has compounded his situation last weekend is the equally poor handling of matters post Grand Prix by his team. There were several therein who backed up his poor comments by wondering aloud that Kimi's accident was part of a wider Ferrari conspiracy against Mercedes. That was a ridiculous thing for them to do and IMHO the FIA should've admonished them for that. Personally I think there is more to the team's outspoken behaviour than Raikkonen simply clattering in Hamilton. Mercedes no longer have the luxury of just turning up to win. In Silverstone, Ferrari had the measure of Mercedes on race pace and tyre life, and demonstrably so on a track that Mercedes should've won at a canter. This following Mercedes racing with heavily revised aero package, engine upgrades and even the benefit of the thinner "blister proof" tyres.

This year we have also seen Mercedes question Ferrari's oil consumption, turbo lubrication system, ERS performance and battery operation. All suspicions have since proven baseless. Contrast that with the fact that in the last 4 years, nobody even once questioned what Mercedes were up to.

With Hochenheim coming up, I think Mercedes are worried. Those long straits are bound to suit the now bullet-like Ferrari. Hungary will probably be a duel between Ferrari and Red Bull. No wonder the Merc hierarchy are being so outspoken...they have a serious fight on their hands and upcoming races may well lead to further championship ground being lost. Dear oh dear!

meeeeh

PukkaStukka wrote: »

This year we have also seen Mercedes question Ferrari's oil consumption, turbo lubrication system, ERS performance and battery operation. All suspicions have since proven baseless. Contrast that with the fact that in the last 4 years, nobody even once questioned what Mercedes were up to.

Not all inquiries are made public, I would guess Mercedes are questioned quite a bit. It would be stupid not to do it for those competing with them.

Inviere

PukkaStukka wrote: »

Contrast that with the fact that in the last 4 years, nobody even once questioned what Mercedes were up to.

A very well written, structured, and thought out post...the above notwithstanding. Mercedes have definitely been on the receiving end of technical investigations, the oil burning advantages, and the FRIC suspension systems come immediately to mind.

PukkaStukka

Point taken about FRIC which IIRC had concerned both Mercedes and Red Bull. The oil burning concerned Mercedes and Ferrari and we saw last year that revised oil burning limits seemed to hinder the red cars more than the Mercedes.

In relation to Ferrari's ERS and twin battery performance this year, The FIA used monitoring software on the ECU to measure the systems to ensure their usage and performance were within the rules. The FIA found nothing amiss.

Likewise, I believe Allison sought "clarification" over the oil and lubrication system applicable to the turbo charger. My reading of how that was worded seemed to invite the FIA to look at what Ferrari were up to. Again nothing further came from that.

Maybe I'm naive in this, but this year, Mercedes seem to be running more for the rule book than ever before. And is this "concern" or "paranoia" extending to their no 1 driver? Bottas seem far calmer and more measured. His temperament given his luck this year is commendable.

Inviere

PukkaStukka wrote: »

Point taken about FRIC which IIRC had concerned both Mercedes and Red Bull. The oil burning concerned Mercedes and Ferrari and we saw last year that revised oil burning limits seemed to hinder the red cars more than the Mercedes.

From memory, but I'm not 100%, it was something to do with Merc introducing their new spec engine BEFORE the oil burning limits came in, which allowed them to retain the advantage for a certain period. Again, I'm not 100% but I think that's what happened there.

In relation to Ferrari's ERS and twin battery performance this year, The FIA used monitoring software on the ECU to measure the systems to ensure their usage and performance were within the rules. The FIA found nothing amiss.

Likewise, I believe Allison sought "clarification" over the oil and lubrication system applicable to the turbo charger. My reading of how that was worded seemed to invite the FIA to look at what Ferrari were up to. Again nothing further came from that.

Ferrari have been clever, more power to them, that's how to win a championship. Once there's nothing illegal going on, and there seems to be consensus from the FIA that everything's legit, then bring it on. Merc have had the advantage for four years now, lets see them figure it out and fight back.

Maybe I'm naive in this, but this year, Mercedes seem to be running more for the rule book than ever before. And is this "concern" or "paranoia" extending to their no 1 driver? Bottas seem far calmer and more measured. His temperament given his luck this year is commendable.

I'm not convinced Lewis is under any form of pressure that he hasn't experienced before. The fight with Kimi for the 2007 title went to the wire, losing it by one point. The fight with Massa in 2008 went to the bare wire again, with him winning by 1 point. He's had two pretty close seasons with Rosberg too, losing one, winning one...he's pretty familiar with this melting pot of pressure for title fights, plus we're not even midway through the season...things are only going to heat up after the summer.

That said, Lewis never seems to finish the seasons very strongly, whereby Vettel absolutely excels toward the end of a season.

mrsoundie

A lot of people here have no grasp of F1 history. Teams citing each other for any perceived irregularities, this has been going on for years and you could say Ferrari are the worst at it.

As for the Drivers, they are all bastards in their own rights, you don't get to the top without being at least a bit ruthless.

As for any driver in his personal life, what do any of us really know about them?

Every year has a battle and every one of us will take a side, that's life. Does not mean we are right.