safe zones around abortion providers

Hitman3000 · 10-07-2018 09:29AM

judeboy101 wrote:

But this proposal removes that peaceful protest right. If I choose to stand inside a zone, and stand silently with my back turned to the women going in so I cant see them holding a placard that says "abortion is a women's issue and I fully support a women's right to bodily autonomy" I will be arrested.

I know it's upsetting you that your right to harassment is being removed from a set distance from the clinics. Get over yourself, women accessing these services or any other services don't need to run the gauntlet of groups that we saw emerge from caves during the referendum .

optogirl · 10-07-2018 09:31AM

Donald Trump wrote: »

Jaysus, Are ya trying to start a row with me?

Ah sure I'd be in favour of forcibly aborting the progeny of some of the thickos on here for the sake of the country and mankind as a whole

happy now?

:pac:

so you're ok with abortion when the parent of the foetus has an opposing view to your own? That's some sound reasoning you have there

wexie · 10-07-2018 09:32AM

Jayzus lads, do we really need to do this all over again?

Donald Trump · 10-07-2018 09:34AM

Hitman3000 wrote: »

I know it's upsetting you that your right to harassment is being removed from a set distance from the clinics. Get over yourself, women accessing these services or any other services don't need to run the gauntlet of groups that we saw emerge from caves during the referendum .

How about though if the abortions were completely free and anonymous and the OP set up accounts in order to take up all the slots and not use them?

Surely that's ok with you? Given your genius idea to protest the Pope? Grand to physically deny the opportunity to attend to some women but not ok to stand outside with a placard.

Just let whoever wants to protest, protest. Most will get tired and feck off eventually

Hitman3000 · 10-07-2018 09:36AM

Donald Trump wrote:

How about though if the abortions were completely free and anonymous and the OP set up accounts in order to take up all the slots and not use them?

How about you stay on topic and try to avoid the insults.

Hitman3000 · 10-07-2018 09:36AM

Donald Trump wrote:

Surely that's ok with you? Given your genius idea to protest the Pope? Grand to physically deny the opportunity to attend to some women but not ok to stand outside with a placard.

What's the topic of this thread?

Donald Trump · 10-07-2018 09:37AM

optogirl wrote: »

so you're ok with abortion when the parent of the foetus has an opposing view to your own? That's some sound reasoning you have there

No no.

Just when they are thickos.

Sometimes the thickos will agree with me. And there is the odd reasoned person who disagrees with me.

Haven't formed a view on yourself, but if it comes down to it and I place you in the eligible category, just send me a PM and I'll do me best. I've plenty of ould clothes hangers

ELM327 · 10-07-2018 09:38AM

wexie wrote: »

Jayzus lads, do we really need to do this all over again?

No, thats the beauty of abortion being approved by the masses. We never have to do this again.
As soon as the legislation is brought in, we never have to speak about it again!

Mr. CooL ICE · 10-07-2018 09:39AM

Mod: The Donald is taking a short holiday. Please stop replying to him.

Captain Obvious · 10-07-2018 09:40AM

Hitman3000 wrote: »

How do you even get away with posting this crap?

Boards seems to be going with the reddit tactic of encouraging "balance". They need people like him so they don't seem too lefty liberal for the hard right wingers.

the_pen_turner wrote: »

I agree with the OP . It's sets a dangerous precedent that the government can decide when and where you can peacefully protest.

They can already do that. The public order act is quite powerful legislation. Shouting abuse at people trying to go in for medical advice and treatment is not protest though, it's harassment.

10-07-2018 09:50AM

heh

am i the only one with an issue over the unquestioned "right to protest" in general

like, f*** your protest if its oconnell st on a saturday, we've all got issues and the rest of us have places to be

fishy_fishy · 10-07-2018 09:51AM

It's not unconstitutional.

Every person in this country has a right to access medical treatment.

They also have the right to protest.

Where two different rights come into conflict, a balance is struck to favour the more critical right.
A woman who is miscarrying and at risk of sepsis has a higher right to access medical treatment than an anti-abortion protestor has to protest in their desired location.
A girl who was raped and is borderline suicidal has a right to safely terminate that pregnancy that supercedes the right of the anti-abortion protestor to protest in their desired location.

There is a real danger that aggressive protesting would intimidate some women (particularly those who've already suffered violence or abuse) out of accessing the treatment they've every right to receive. And so the balance that's struck is that anti-abortion campaigners will still able to protest the matter, just not directly outside the place where people receive treatment.

Note: intimidating people into a course of action is not the same as putting forward an argument and someone reconsidering their position.

Also note: there is no actual constitutional right to freedom of speech in Ireland.

Lux23 · 10-07-2018 09:56AM

judeboy101 wrote: »

A precedent will be set.

What gives you the right to protest someone seeking a medical procedure? Do you hang around plastic surgery clinics complaining of women getting boob jobs? When you hear of someone opting to get a vasectomy or tubal ligation, do you express your disagreement?

Berserker · 10-07-2018 10:02AM

Deleted User wrote: »

heh

am i the only one with an issue over the unquestioned "right to protest" in general

like, f*** your protest if its oconnell st on a saturday, we've all got issues and the rest of us have places to be

No you are not. Used to live in Ballsbridge and it drove me mad. The same faces would gather outside the US or Israeli embassy. They'd sit in the middle of the road, stopping traffic. Guards would ask them to move. They'd scream abuse at them in the reply. Traffic starts building up, so the guards have to remove them physically. As soon as the guards starting lifting them (not hitting them) off the road, the protesters take our their mobile phones and start shouting about brutality etc.

TheValeyard · 10-07-2018 10:16AM

seamus wrote: »

Given that the proposed exclusion zone legislation will be contained in a health bill, this is paranoid nonsense.

Any expansion of the idea to non-health contexts would require entirely separate legislation and the public debates and discussions around it.

We will see if it's nonense or not. Time Will tell.

Brian? · 10-07-2018 10:17AM

joe swanson wrote: »

If someone wants to murder a baby, why should it be made easy for them ?

100% agree.

What had this got to do with protesting outside an abortion clinic?

freedominacup · 10-07-2018 10:21AM

seamus wrote: »

What precedent would that be then?

Like I say, paranoid nonsense.

I guess you'd be fully supportive of me if I were to stand outside a Catholic church with pictures of the pope dressed up as a devil, suggestively caressing some children and calling everyone who entered a paedophile and a rapist then?

Absolutely. I'd also think you were a complete cnut and may well start a counter protest but all's fair etc. I wouldn't be holding back in how I'd portray you and your agenda.

uptherebels · 10-07-2018 10:23AM

Minderbinder wrote: »

No it shouldn’t. They don’t impede each other.

People have the right to protest in Ireland and if they didn’t we still wouldn’t have abortion.

The entitlement of some people to tell others what they can and can’t protest against in f**king unbelievable.

They do if you have to run a gauntlet to see a doctor
The entitlement of some people who think they can do whatever they want and force their beliefs on others

Hector Savage · 10-07-2018 10:25AM

I actually don't think there will be much protests, I think this "pro life" movement will just fade away...

BattleCorp · 10-07-2018 10:28AM

Brian? wrote: »

100% agree.

What had this got to do with protesting outside an abortion clinic?

Are we going to have abortion clinics? Are terminations not going to take place either at home (abortion pills) or in normal hospitals?

10-07-2018 10:34AM

You still have the right to protest. In spite of all the claims otherwise. You just can't be a ass about it.

Personally, I see absolutely nothing wrong with these safe zones. Don't government buildings have safe zones too, and yet, I don't see any threads complaining about them?

seamus · 10-07-2018 11:10AM

freedominacup wrote: »

Absolutely. I'd also think you were a complete cnut and may well start a counter protest but all's fair etc. I wouldn't be holding back in how I'd portray you and your agenda.

So, all you've accomplished then is that you've got two groups of angry lunatics standing outside a church intimidating the people who just want to go and pray/worship/grieve in peace.
You'd be happy for protestors to stand there while a grieving family carries their loved ones coffin in through the front door?

I doubt it.

The right to protest and the right to free speech have to be balanced with an obligation to use those rights responsibly and with due regard and respect for other people. Unrestricted, these rights are usually abused by people with malicious agendas or mental illnesses.

Brian? · 10-07-2018 11:13AM

BattleCorp wrote: »

Are we going to have abortion clinics? Are terminations not going to take place either at home (abortion pills) or in normal hospitals?

I don’t think we are going to have abortion clinics, no.

I’m answering stupidity with a flippant remark.

Danny Donut · 10-07-2018 11:19AM

joe swanson wrote: »

If someone wants to murder a baby, why should it be made easy for them ?

Sure - because when someone is pretty low (I imagine) they really need a load more shoite chucked on them.

Mongfinder General · 10-07-2018 11:21AM

BattleCorp wrote: »

Are we going to have abortion clinics? Are terminations not going to take place either at home (abortion pills) or in normal hospitals?

That’s a good point. The problem the government now have is finding medical practitioners to do the dirty work. It’s one thing supporting abortion rights. It’s quite different when asked to perform one.

judeboy101 · 10-07-2018 11:24AM

fishy_fishy wrote: »

It's not unconstitutional.

Every person in this country has a right to access medical treatment.

They also have the right to protest.

Where two different rights come into conflict, a balance is struck to favour the more critical right.
A woman who is miscarrying and at risk of sepsis has a higher right to access medical treatment than an anti-abortion protestor has to protest in their desired location.
A girl who was raped and is borderline suicidal has a right to safely terminate that pregnancy that supercedes the right of the anti-abortion protestor to protest in their desired location.

There is a real danger that aggressive protesting would intimidate some women (particularly those who've already suffered violence or abuse) out of accessing the treatment they've every right to receive. And so the balance that's struck is that anti-abortion campaigners will still able to protest the matter, just not directly outside the place where people receive treatment.

Note: intimidating people into a course of action is not the same as putting forward an argument and someone reconsidering their position.

Also note: there is no actual constitutional right to freedom of speech in Ireland.

There is also no constitutional right to medical access.

seamus · 10-07-2018 11:34AM

judeboy101 wrote: »

There is also no constitutional right to medical access.

Actually, there is. "The State guarantees in its laws to respect, and, as far as practicable, by its laws to defend and vindicate the personal rights of the citizen."

However, there is no blanket right to protest wherever and whenever;

"The State guarantees liberty for the exercise of the following rights, subject to public order and morality: –

ii The right of the citizens to assemble peaceably and without arms.

Provision may be made by law to prevent or control meetings which are determined in accordance with law to be calculated to cause a breach of the peace or to be a danger or nuisance to the general public and to prevent or control meetings in the vicinity of either House of the Oireachtas."

Minderbinder · 10-07-2018 11:48AM

uptherebels wrote: »

Minderbinder wrote: »

No it shouldn’t. They don’t impede each other.

People have the right to protest in Ireland and if they didn’t we still wouldn’t have abortion.

The entitlement of some people to tell others what they can and can’t protest against in f**king unbelievable.

They do if you have to run a gauntlet to see a doctor
The entitlement of some people who think they can do whatever they want and force their beliefs on others

Why are people talking as if protesters would block people or shout abuse at individuals? That is not protesting. That’s an entirely different category that nobody here has approved of.

Sonics2k · 10-07-2018 12:51PM

judeboy101 wrote: »

How does peaceful non violent protest infringe on safety. By all means throw the book at someone who blocks or impedes but its scary to think one cannot even stand in a public place and silently "voice" an opinion.

Westboro Baptist Church is famous for their non-violent, 'peaceful' protests. Are you saying you want to be like them?

They actively have caused people to know go to Planned Parenthood due to the 'shame' and accusations thrown at them, even when the woman in question isn't getting an abortion.

judeboy101 · 10-07-2018 01:00PM

seamus wrote: »

Actually, there is. "The State guarantees in its laws to respect, and, as far as practicable, by its laws to defend and vindicate the personal rights of the citizen."

However, there is no blanket right to protest wherever and whenever;

"The State guarantees liberty for the exercise of the following rights, subject to public order and morality: –

ii The right of the citizens to assemble peaceably and without arms.

Provision may be made by law to prevent or control meetings which are determined in accordance with law to be calculated to cause a breach of the peace or to be a danger or nuisance to the general public and to prevent or control meetings in the vicinity of either House of the Oireachtas."

Personal rights is not medical rights, else euthanasia, as a personal medical right, would be allowed.numerous courts have rejected this medical procedure.

safe zones around abortion providers

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