safe zones around abortion providers

judeboy101 · 10-07-2018 6:55am #1

How constitutional is it to ban peaceful protest in public places. I think anyone who stands outside an abortion clinic has a right to do so, so long as they do not get violent or impede movement. I also think it's a scumbag move, but that's a personal opinion. My worry is gov could expend this 'safe zone' idea to a lot of areas, shutting down legit protests.

ELM327 · 10-07-2018 7:04am

It's over.
You and your ilk lost by a country mile.

Get over it.

TheValeyard · 10-07-2018 7:04am

I can see it been trialed at the clinics. Then expanded once accepted to no protesting outside the US or Israeli embassy. Or places where government officials are meeting. They would probably end up create protest zones, areas where you are allowed to protest, but it's out of the way and seen as a minor inconvenience.

judeboy101 · 10-07-2018 7:08am

ELM327 wrote: »

It's over.
You and your ilk lost by a country mile.

Get over it.

Didn't know we had a vote to recind the right to protest? TiL.

amcalester · 10-07-2018 7:08am

Not all rights are absolute, 1 persons right to safe medical treatment should trump another's right to protest.

seamus · 10-07-2018 7:08am

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

I can see it been trialed at the clinics. Then expanded once accepted to no protesting outside the US or Israeli embassy. Or places where government officials are meeting. They would probably end up create protest zones, areas where you are allowed to protest, but it's out of the way and seen as a minor inconvenience.

Given that the proposed exclusion zone legislation will be contained in a health bill, this is paranoid nonsense.

Any expansion of the idea to non-health contexts would require entirely separate legislation and the public debates and discussions around it.

HydroTendonMan · 10-07-2018 7:11am

In this case it makes sense. It is there to allow people some privacy and dignity while dealing with a sensitive medical procedure.

ELM327 · 10-07-2018 7:14am

judeboy101 wrote: »

Didn't know we had a vote to recind the right to protest? TiL.

No, we had a vote to allow abortion on demand.

erica74 · 10-07-2018 7:18am

Anyone accessing abortion services should be able to do so without the added stress of idiots screaming "baby murderer" or seeing those horrendous posters the ICBR like to hold outside our maternity hospitals. I think these safe zones are an excellent idea. Idiots will continue to protest about abortion for many years to come so safe zones are a way of protecting our women.

VinLieger · 10-07-2018 7:20am

judeboy101 wrote: »

Didn't know we had a vote to recind the right to protest? TiL.

Ahh but this isnt about protesting is it? Its about embarrassing and demeaning the women who may be attending these facilities for numerous and varied reasons.

ELM327 · 10-07-2018 7:21am

And those idiots at the various hospitals already have shown that they cannot be trusted to be respectful. Bringing crap like foetus pictures to a maternity hospital where a woman could be having a traumatic pregnancy, a miscarriage, etc , is BS and should not be allowed.

I know if it were my wife/partner/daughter/friend in that situation and we were confronted by those idiots (usually old men) I wouldnt trust myself not to react.

judeboy101 · 10-07-2018 7:24am

seamus wrote: »

Given that the proposed exclusion zone legislation will be contained in a health bill, this is paranoid nonsense.

Any expansion of the idea to non-health contexts would require entirely separate legislation and the public debates and discussions around it.

A precedent will be set.

seamus · 10-07-2018 7:26am

judeboy101 wrote: »

A precedent will be set.

What precedent would that be then?

Like I say, paranoid nonsense.

I guess you'd be fully supportive of me if I were to stand outside a Catholic church with pictures of the pope suggestively caressing some children while dressed up as a devil, and calling everyone who entered a paedophile and a rapist then?

judeboy101 · 10-07-2018 7:28am

amcalester wrote: »

Not all rights are absolute, 1 persons right to safe medical treatment should trump another's right to protest.

How does peaceful non violent protest infringe on safety. By all means throw the book at someone who blocks or impedes but its scary to think one cannot even stand in a public place and silently "voice" an opinion.

judeboy101 · 10-07-2018 7:31am

seamus wrote: »

What precedent would that be then?

Like I say, paranoid nonsense.

I guess you'd be fully supportive of me if I were to stand outside a Catholic church with pictures of the pope dressed up as a devil, suggestively caressing some children and calling everyone who entered a paedophile and a rapist then?

So long as you do not impede movement or incite violence, you can stand outside and church, chapel, temple, synagogue or mosque.

joe swanson · 10-07-2018 7:32am

If someone wants to murder a baby, why should it be made easy for them ?

amcalester · 10-07-2018 7:32am

judeboy101 wrote: »

How does peaceful non violent protest infringe on safety. By all means throw the book at someone who blocks or impedes but its scary to think one cannot even stand in a public place and silently "voice" an opinion.

Because it wouldn't really be a protest, it would be an attempt to shame and embarrass women into not having treatment.

By all means protest if you want, but do it in appropriate places. Outside the Dail for example, that's where the legislation in passed.

amcalester · 10-07-2018 7:33am

joe swanson wrote: »

If someone wants to murder a baby, why should it be made easy for them ?

There's always one...

Surprised it took that long.

judeboy101 · 10-07-2018 7:35am

amcalester wrote: »

Because it wouldn't really be a protest, it would be an attempt to shame and embarrass women into not having treatment.

By all means protest if you want, but do it in appropriate places. Outside the Dail for example, that's where the legislation in passed.

Treatment?

Annasopra · 10-07-2018 7:37am

judeboy101 wrote: »

How does peaceful non violent protest infringe on safety. By all means throw the book at someone who blocks or impedes but its scary to think one cannot even stand in a public place and silently "voice" an opinion.

Its not peaceful or non violent. Shoving nasty images in peoples faces. Calling them baby murderers etc.

Annasopra · 10-07-2018 7:39am

judeboy101 wrote: »

Treatment?

Medical treatment yes

ELM327 · 10-07-2018 7:39am

joe swanson wrote: »

If someone wants to murder a baby, why should it be made easy for them ?

We voted 2:1 to allow abortion on demand for whatever reason.

suicide_circus · 10-07-2018 7:39am

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Its not peaceful or non violent. Shoving nasty images in peoples faces. Calling them baby murderers etc.

hurt feelings and being made uncomfortable is not violence. violence is violence.

amcalester · 10-07-2018 7:39am

judeboy101 wrote: »

Treatment?

Yes.

noun
the application of medicines, surgery, psychotherapy, etc, to a patient or to a disease or symptom

ELM327 · 10-07-2018 7:40am

seamus wrote: »

What precedent would that be then?

Like I say, paranoid nonsense.

I guess you'd be fully supportive of me if I were to stand outside a Catholic church with pictures of the pope dressed up as a devil, suggestively caressing some children and calling everyone who entered a paedophile and a rapist then?

I'd be fully supportive of that.

#saynopetothepope

Annasopra · 10-07-2018 7:41am

suicide_circus wrote: »

hurt feelings and being made uncomfortable is not violence. violence is violence.

Psychological violence

smokingman · 10-07-2018 7:42am

I reckon if these people want to act like we're in the 1600s, the punishment should suit.. get caught doing that vile **** and you get put in stocks for the rest of us to throw rotten veg at.
Simples

BattleCorp · 10-07-2018 7:44am

joe swanson wrote: »

If someone wants to murder a baby, why should it be made easy for them ?

It's quite clear that the State and the majority of voters in this Country don't consider a lawful termination of pregnancy to be murder.

suicide_circus · 10-07-2018 7:45am

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Psychological violence

possibly but unless words are a direct incitement to violence then I'm not going to call them non peaceful or "violence". they can be horrible and downright awful but I'm afraid we have to allow people to be hurtful.

purpleisafruit · 10-07-2018 7:46am

judeboy101 wrote: »

So long as you do not impede movement or incite violence, you can stand outside and church, chapel, temple, synagogue or mosque.

So the ICBR aren't looking to incite violence? Their wearing of body cameras isn't to record the happy, supportive reactions of those passing their banners I'm pretty sure.

the_pen_turner · 10-07-2018 7:50am

I agree with the OP . It's sets a dangerous precedent that the government can decide when and where you can peacefully protest.

As much as I disagree with this procedure ,anyone doing anything that could screw up any operation should be stopped.
Sitting there peacefully doesn't do that in my opinion

murpho999 · 10-07-2018 7:50am

Do people know that this will be a GP led service so the majority of abortions will be start there and happen at home.

There is no provision of UK style abortion clinics so protesters would have to go to GP practices and hospitals and somehow be able to spot women in early stages of pregnancy amongst all the other patients.

Minderbinder · 10-07-2018 7:51am

amcalester wrote: »

Not all rights are absolute, 1 persons right to safe medical treatment should trump another's right to protest.

No it shouldn’t. They don’t impede each other.

People have the right to protest in Ireland and if they didn’t we still wouldn’t have abortion.

The entitlement of some people to tell others what they can and can’t protest against in f**king unbelievable.

Donald Trump · 10-07-2018 7:52am

ELM327 wrote: »

Seriously just go p1ss off
We voted 2:1 to allow abortion on demand for whatever reason.

Is that true? Genuine question.

Was it on any major pre-election literature or stated publicly and explicitly for those campaigning for the vote?

I had the impression that the pro-lifers were claiming this would happen and the pro-choicers were saying it wasn't about that at all

Donald Trump · 10-07-2018 7:54am

Ironically, I notice a lot of the posters here criticizing the OP were screaming the loudest about "right to protest" over in the thread about the Pope's visit.

Grand when it suits ye eh?

:pac:

murpho999 · 10-07-2018 7:55am

ELM327 wrote: »

Seriously just go p1ss off
We voted 2:1 to allow abortion on demand for whatever reason.

No we didn't.

We voted to repeal the Eight amendment.
Nothing more, nothing less.

However, this was done with the knowledge of the government's proposed legislation to allow abortions up to 12 weeks.

Some parts may be changed when the time comes but we will not be voting on it.

ELM327 · 10-07-2018 7:56am

Donald Trump wrote: »

Is that true? Genuine question.

Was it on any major pre-election literature or stated publicly and explicitly for those campaigning for the vote?

I had the impression that the pro-lifers were claiming this would happen and the pro-choicers were saying it wasn't about that at all

The heads of the bill that the government were intending to bring in in the event of a yes vote were published beforehand
The referendum was not strictly about abortion... but in practice it was.

Flippyfloppy · 10-07-2018 7:56am

suicide_circus wrote: »

possibly but unless words are a direct incitement to violence then I'm not going to call them non peaceful or "violence". they can be horrible and downright awful but I'm afraid we have to allow people to be hurtful.

It's actually called Verbal abuse, which is harassment. They wouldn't be long getting arrested doing that.

The good people of Ireland will ensure that all women will be protected when going for these procedures at such a vulnerable time in their lives.

The assertion of 'if someone wants to murder a baby'' is as thick. How can it be that hard to understand that people need abortions for a variety of reasons?! So, so closed minded.

amcalester · 10-07-2018 7:56am

Minderbinder wrote: »

No it shouldn’t. They don’t impede each other.

People have the right to protest in Ireland and if they didn’t we still wouldn’t have abortion.

The entitlement of some people to tell others what they can and can’t protest against in f**king unbelievable.

It's about where they protest, not what they protest.

A huge difference.

Go out on the M50 and start to protest (anything at all) and see how long it is before you're moved on by the Guards.

Hitman3000 · 10-07-2018 7:57am

judeboy101 wrote:

Didn't know we had a vote to recind the right to protest? TiL.

You have a right to protest, not a right to harass.

Donald Trump · 10-07-2018 7:57am

amcalester wrote: »

Not all rights are absolute, 1 persons right to safe medical treatment should trump another's right to protest.

Only if they are mutually exclusive. If the protest doesn't physically prevent a person from getting treatment then that argument is irrelevant

ELM327 · 10-07-2018 7:57am

murpho999 wrote: »

No we didn't.

We voted to repeal the Eight amendment.
Nothing more, nothing less.

However, this was done with the knowledge of the government's proposed legislation to allow abortions up to 12 weeks.

Some parts may be changed when the time comes but we will not be voting on it.

Are you playing?
We repealed the 8th with full knowlege of the intended bill.

Donald Trump · 10-07-2018 7:59am

ELM327 wrote: »

The heads of the bill that the government were intending to bring in in the event of a yes vote were published beforehand
The referendum was not strictly about abortion... but in practice it was.

Maybe for you it was.

robarmstrong · 10-07-2018 7:59am

joe swanson wrote: »

If someone wants to murder a baby, why should it be made easy for them ?

Did we vote on murdering babies?

Or did we vote to repeal the 8th to allow legislation for the regulation of terminating pregnancies?

Donald Trump · 10-07-2018 8:03am

Flippyfloppy wrote: »

It's actually called Verbal abuse, which is harassment. They wouldn't be long getting arrested doing that.

The good people of Ireland will ensure that all women will be protected when going for these procedures at such a vulnerable time in their lives.

The assertion of 'if someone wants to murder a baby'' is as thick. How can it be that hard to understand that people need abortions for a variety of reasons?! So, so closed minded.

Wonder what could be fueling such an idea........

ELM327 wrote: »

Seriously just go p1ss off
We voted 2:1 to allow abortion on demand for whatever reason.

ELM327 wrote: »

The heads of the bill that the government were intending to bring in in the event of a yes vote were published beforehand
The referendum was not strictly about abortion... but in practice it was.

ELM327 · 10-07-2018 8:03am

Donald Trump wrote: »

Maybe for you it was.

Considering the heads of the bill were published and the pro birthers and pro choice campaigns both referred to said bill..... yeah that wasn't just for me.

ELM327 · 10-07-2018 8:04am

Donald Trump wrote: »

Wonder what could be fueling such an idea........

What is your issue with me?
Can you terminate it please.

Donald Trump · 10-07-2018 8:07am

ELM327 wrote: »

What is your issue with me?
Can you terminate it please.

If I could go back in time I might just advise your mother to terminate yourself

:pac:

You might want to get over yourself if you think you're that important for anyone to have an issue with you because they quote one of your posts on an internet board to reply to it ffs

Mod: Banned

ELM327 · 10-07-2018 8:08am

Donald Trump wrote: »

If I could go back in time I might just advise your mother to terminate yourself

:pac:

You might want to get over yourself if you think you're that important for anyone to have an issue with you because they quote one of your posts on an internet board to reply to it ffs

2 of them.... to support your nonsense.

PS: I note you have ignored

ELM327 wrote: »

Considering the heads of the bill were published and the pro birthers and pro choice campaigns both referred to said bill..... yeah that wasn't just for me.

Berserker · 10-07-2018 8:10am

No problem with the exclusion zone myself. However, it'd be foolish to think that something similar will not be introduced for other protests.

Edit: Think they have something similar in the USA. Recall hearing about protesters being allocated locations where they could stand to protest in NY outside the CoS near Times Square. Think they were cordoned in with barriers. If they protested outside of that area, they were arrested.

optogirl · 10-07-2018 8:11am

Donald Trump wrote: »

If I could go back in time I might just advise your mother to terminate yourself

:pac:

FFS. :rolleyes:

safe zones around abortion providers

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