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Dublin - BusConnects

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    #362
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,562 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    tom1ie wrote: »
    In the bus connects documentation it states:
    “There are eleven radial bus corridors planned in addition to the Bus Rapid Transit routes, as well as three orbital bus corridors.”
    Also
    “introducing Bus Rapid Transit, a higher quality of bus system, on three of the busiest corridors;”

    What routes will be the 3 brt routes, I can’t find anything in the documentation.
    I presume one of them will be the n4 route?

    That was the original plan. As of now BRT has been canned.


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    #363
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,518 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    tom1ie wrote: »
    On right I didn’t spot that! Well if that’s delivered it’ll be very impressive.
    Where does it say that? I only scanned the document this morning. I’ll have a closer look later.

    Well I first tweaked that from Walkers presentation where he kept stressing that these were the all day frequency maps, for 12pm weekdays. That peak times would have significantly higher frequencies and weekends a bit lower.

    Near the end of Chapter 6 there is a detailed table of the frequency of each route at different times of the day which confirm this and show the new 16 at 10 minutes at peak times.
    tom1ie wrote: »
    In the bus connects documentation it states:
    “There are eleven radial bus corridors planned in addition to the Bus Rapid Transit routes, as well as three orbital bus corridors.”
    Also
    “introducing Bus Rapid Transit, a higher quality of bus system, on three of the busiest corridors;”

    What routes will be the 3 brt routes, I can’t find anything in the documentation.
    I presume one of them will be the n4 route?

    Those were the three swiftway routes. But it is an open question if they are still happening.

    There were basically:
    - Northside A
    - Northside D to a combination of F and A
    - Full B


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    #364
    tom1ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,136 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    LXFlyer wrote: »
    That was the original plan. As of now BRT has been canned.

    Hmmm. Is it though. It clearly states there are eleven radial bus routes in ADDITION to three bus rapid transit routes (brt). I cant see any mention of what brt routes they are on about.
    It’s a bit confusing.


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    #365
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,562 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    tom1ie wrote: »
    Hmmm. Is it though. It clearly states there are eleven radial bus routes in ADDITION to three bus rapid transit routes (brt). I cant see any mention of what brt routes they are on about.
    It’s a bit confusing.

    It did but that was early last year.

    I suspect that the network redesign has now superceded the BRT - it’s not mentioned anywhere in the latest network documentation.


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    #366
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,518 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    So the three swiftway BRT routes were first announced around 4 years ago and even very detailed plans were developed, as in down to road level for submission to the planning authorities. But then it went very quiet on the project.

    Then the BusConnects plan popped up last year. It did mention the 3 BRT, but didn't go into much details and rumour had it that Swiftway was cancelled.

    Now this report was released and no mention of BRT.

    I suspect BRT is currently cancelled in favour of the wider BusConnects plan. But it could come back at some future time as an enhancement to BusConnects. But it definitely doesn't seem to be on the cards in the short term.


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    #367
    strassenwo!f
    Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭strassenwo!f


    Broadly, this seems to be a very sensible plan.

    Over the years, from the excellent pitch and putt course at the top of the hill in Glencullen, I've watched the 44B trundle the whole way into town with few passengers, but often even having to take a different route occasionally to give way to a 44B which was coming out of town, because the roads in that area were so narrow.

    It is to be welcomed that, under this new arrangement, those 44B passengers may probably only have to travel as far as Dundrum, before changing onto a rapid service into and out of the city centre.

    It probably will need a bit of tweaking, in many parts of the city, but the overall idea is good.


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    #368
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    strassenwo!f wrote: »
    Broadly, this seems to be a very sensible plan.

    Over the years, from the excellent pitch and putt course at the top of the hill in Glencullen, I've watched the 44B trundle the whole way into town with few passengers, but often even having to take a different route occasionally to give way to a 44B which was coming out of town, because the roads in that area were so narrow.

    It is to be welcomed that, under this new arrangement, those 44B passengers may probably only have to travel as far as Dundrum, before changing onto a rapid service into and out of the city centre.

    It probably will need a bit of tweaking, in many parts of the city, but the overall idea is good.

    The 44b only goes to Dundrum as is. No longer do any services continue into the city centre.


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    #369
    strassenwo!f
    Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭strassenwo!f


    Thanks, Stephen15. I wasn't aware that it now does a circuit from Dundrum.

    I recall bringing the putter and pitching wedge into Hawkins Street or thereabouts, getting the 44B to Glenculllen, then borrowing a 9 iron from the owner for the longer holes. Overall, it was always great to play there, but also to see the panorama of the sea and the Sugar Loaf from the 15th tee. Glorious stuff.

    If I'm in Dublin now I'm usually picked up by someone who has a car, on the way to Glencullen, but we still see the 44B passing by on our way around the course.

    Places like Glencullen and, say, Naul, don't need to have a direct service into the city, because the volumes don't justify them. But this BusConects plan seems to offer an arrangement which makes sense and should suit most people.

    How would one get from Naul to Glencullen, for example, for a game of pitch and putt in a County Dublin location which, to my mind, is even better, scenery-wise, than Naul?

    Under the proposed system it would possibly involve a bus from Naul to Ballymun, a bus from Ballymun to the city, a bus from the city to Dundrum and then the successor to the 44B from Dundrum to Glencullen. That is only three changes, and if the new system works well, the proposed 90 minute ticket should do you for that journey.


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    #370
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    strassenwo!f wrote: »
    Thanks, Stephen15. I wasn't aware that it now does a circuit from Dundrum.

    I recall bringing the putter and pitching wedge into Hawkins Street or thereabouts, getting the 44B to Glenculllen, then borrowing a 9 iron from the owner for the longer holes. Overall, it was always great to play there, but also to see the panorama of the sea and the Sugar Loaf from the 15th tee. Glorious stuff.

    If I'm in Dublin now I'm usually picked up by someone who has a car, on the way to Glencullen, but we still see the 44B passing by on our way around the course.

    Places like Glencullen and, say, Naul, don't need to have a direct service into the city, because the volumes don't justify them. But this BusConects plan seems to offer an arrangement which makes sense and should suit most people.

    How would one get from Naul to Glencullen, for example, for a game of pitch and putt in a County Dublin location which, to my mind, is even better, scenery-wise, than Naul?

    Under the proposed system it would possibly involve a bus from Naul to Ballymun, a bus from Ballymun to the city, a bus from the city to Dundrum and then the successor to the 44B from Dundrum to Glencullen. That is only three changes, and if the new system works well, the proposed 90 minute ticket should do you for that journey.

    There isin't any bus from Naul, I think there may be a local link that goes there to Balbriggan but no DB or BE that goes there this may change with Bus Connects but I don't think it will. Also bear in mind that the 44b only runs Monday to Friday nowadays also.


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    #371
    strassenwo!f
    Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭strassenwo!f


    Is there no bus from Naul to the city centre? It seems incongruous with the current arrangement.

    It is hard to believe that a location in County Dublin would not already have even a bus route to the city city. But such may indeed be the case.

    Anyway, under the proposed new arrangement, travel between Naul and Glencullen should be achievable somehow with three bus changes, if the BusConnects thing works out. I hope it will.


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    #372
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    To the ramparts comrades the NTA are coming for our houses!


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    #373
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,418 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    To the ramparts comrades the NTA are coming for our houses!

    That picture is not legible. Could you re-post it please?


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    #374
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    That picture is not legible. Could you re-post it please?

    I'm i allowed to post the entire thing?


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    #375
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,418 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    I'm i allowed to post the entire thing?

    No point in posting something that cannot be read.

    Make sure it is flat and in focus and is well illuminated.

    Post only enough to make your point. Copyright has to be respected.


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    #376
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    I'm i allowed to post the entire thing?

    Story continues. If I am allowed I'll scan it.


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    #377
    specialbyte
    Registered Users Posts: 231 ✭✭specialbyte


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Story continues. If I am allowed I'll scan it.

    This reads like conspiracy story nonsense. The excessive and accusatory use of quotes is a bit much. Can we wait until a newspaper with a reputation and real sources reports on this before jumping gun-ho into a debate?

    There is no mention in any of the Bus Connects Core Bus Corridors documentation of demolishing buildings. Go read the information published on corridors 3 and 4 in the Phibsborough area. They talk about the restrictive road space making it an issue to provide continuous bus corridors, but the potential impacts are loss of parking, changes in traffic management or loss of front gardens. Nothing more.


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    #378
    specialbyte
    Registered Users Posts: 231 ✭✭specialbyte


    I know this wasn't mentioned in the current Core Bus Corridors documentation release thus far but can any of you imagine they might cover over the railway cut between Drumcondra and Phibsborough along Whitford road. The F spine will be operating along Whitford road if the network redesign is approved. (https://imgur.com/a/NJBY5Cw) Currently Whitford road is only one lane in each direction and it does suffer from congestion during peak times. If they cover over the rail line they could definitely fit in two bus lanes and a footpath, maybe even a centre median. It could provide great priority in that area.

    In theory it wouldn't be that different to what they did in Dun Laoghaire by covering over the DART line there about 7 years ago now. Though the engineering might be a little more complex in the Whitford Rd case as they'll need to support the weight of buses above. Thoughts?


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    #379
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    specialbyte wrote: »
    This reads like conspiracy story nonsense. The excessive and accusatory use of quotes is a bit much. Can we wait until a newspaper with a reputation and real sources reports on this before jumping gun-ho into a debate?

    Perhaps we can but for a lot of people these sort of papers are the only newspapers they see nowadays. This is a propaganda war and the NTA need to win it.


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    #380
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,255 ✭✭✭markpb


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Story continues. If I am allowed I'll scan it.

    Where was that published? What drivel.


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    #381
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    markpb wrote: »
    Where was that published? What drivel.

    http://www.localnews.ie/ this classy affair.


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    #382
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,256 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    The BusConnects survey is up.

    Have your say here:

    https://www.research.net/r/BusConnects


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    #383
    geo88
    Registered Users Posts: 98 ✭✭geo88


    Is anyone concerned that key orbital routes as defined in the previous BRT plan are not well represented in the new plan? (Especially with regards to frequency)


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    #384
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,518 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    geo88 wrote: »
    Is anyone concerned that key orbital routes as defined in the previous BRT plan are not well represented in the new plan? (Especially with regards to frequency)

    There were no orbital routes defined in the BRT plan AFAIK?

    The BRT/Swiftway plan defined three radial routes, that is all.


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    #385
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,277 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    My biggest concern is the O bus as it will have to be single decker to pass under the Macken St rail bridge. It'll also pass through some congested areas and I seriously doubt the political viability of up rooting the historic North Circular Road trees and the Victorian gardens for road widening. Then you've bottle necks like phibsboro.

    All in the context of this not being a key radial route.


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    #386
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    cgcsb wrote: »
    My biggest concern is the O bus as it will have to be single decker to pass under the Macken St rail bridge. It'll also pass through some congested areas and I seriously doubt the political viability of up rooting the historic North Circular Road trees and the Victorian gardens for road widening. Then you've bottle necks like phibsboro.

    All in the context of this not being a key radial route.

    Are there many tight turns on this route. If the proper infrastructure was put in place perhaps bendybuses could be option for this route.


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    #387
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,354 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    BusConnects, or BusDisconnects as world renowned transport expert Joan Collins called it, was raised during discussions in the Dail today. The usual mature, progressive approach to the issue

    https://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2018-07-10a.60


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    #388
    LionelNashe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭LionelNashe


    marno21 wrote: »
    BusConnects, or BusDisconnects as world renowned transport expert Joan Burton called it, was raised during discussions in the Dail today. The usual mature, progressive approach to the issue

    https://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2018-07-10a.60

    Joan Collins, according to that link. (I don't know what she's like, but I would have been disappointed if Joan Burton had said it.)
    Joan Collins: I will give one example. My bus stop, the 1937 on the Tyrconnell Road, has lost the 68, 69 and 13 buses. The 63 bus serves the area every hour. We already had a service with three buses. Deputies should be looking at their areas and demanding that this consultation process be put back until at least September when people can engage properly. It is an absolute disgrace.

    She probably means stop 1987 on Tyrconnell Road, not 1937, which is somewhere else altogether. She's right that there's only a 63 bus at that particular stop under the new plan, but that bus stop is only 350 meters from the Blackhorse Luas Stop and 550 meters from where the G1 & G2 will be going through Inchicore every 6 or 7 minutes. It sounds like the area is served well enough under the new plan.


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    #389
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,354 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    LionelNashe wrote: »
    Joan Collins, according to that link. I don't know what she's like, but I would have been disappointed in Joan Burton if it was her who said it.

    Typo!! Too late for all this typing.;)


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    #390
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,277 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    Are there many tight turns on this route. If the proper infrastructure was put in place perhaps bendybuses could be option for this route.

    That means a serious upgrade to bus stops along the route along with road widening and tree cutting, a tall order. I think the O route is really crucial to the overall network and it needs to be given the same consideration in terms of infrastructure as Terenure will get.


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    #391
    tom1ie
    Registered Users Posts: 10,136 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    cgcsb wrote: »
    That means a serious upgrade to bus stops along the route along with road widening and tree cutting, a tall order. I think the O route is really crucial to the overall network and it needs to be given the same consideration in terms of infrastructure as Terenure will get.

    What infrastructure is terenure getting? Are they not just making it one way or some such craziness? Genuine question.


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