Gay Pride at work

Annasopra · 05-07-2018 07:56AM

Deleted User wrote: »

And if they don't believe him to be gay, but continue to make the insults and the assault? Is that still a homophobic attack? I wouldn't have thought it would be.

Of course it is.

ELM327 · 05-07-2018 08:37AM

Deleted User wrote: »

And if they don't believe him to be gay, but continue to make the insults and the assault? Is that still a homophobic attack? I wouldn't have thought it would be.

You can't speak to some people, there's a lot of precious people or social justice warriors on this thread.

I started out on the thread as a middle ground person, yes voter to SSM and to abortion.

But the attitudes of the "persecuted" on this thread is not turning me towards their cause, instead pushing me away. And I'm sure I'm not the only one. I've spoken about this issue in work and there are many others forced to pretend during the pride month as in reality they find it a bit disturbing to have a month of our faces being rubbed in glitter, spandex and leather.

gmisk · 05-07-2018 09:02AM

ELM327 wrote: »

a month of our faces being rubbed in glitter, spandex and leather.

Yeah I am sure that is exactly what has happened.....
Did you actually go to pride this year?

ELM327 · 05-07-2018 09:02AM

gmisk wrote: »

Yeah I am sure that is exactly what has happened.....
Did you actually go to pride this year?

Clearly you are unfamiliar with analogy.
I did not go to the pride parade this year, despite almost enforced attendance by the company.

gmisk · 05-07-2018 09:04AM

ELM327 wrote: »

Clearly you are unfamiliar with analogy.
I did not go to the pride parade this year, despite almost enforced attendance by the company.

Lighten up seriously...its over now anyway

ELM327 · 05-07-2018 09:05AM

gmisk wrote: »

Lighten up seriously...its over now anyway

For another 11 months until the whole thing is thrust upon us again.
I cant wait for the next "big thing" to come, it's pride at the moment but that will change.

Annasopra · 05-07-2018 09:14AM

ELM327 wrote: »

You can't speak to some people, there's a lot of precious people or social justice warriors on this thread.

I started out on the thread as a middle ground person, yes voter to SSM and to abortion.

But the attitudes of the "persecuted" on this thread is not turning me towards their cause, instead pushing me away. And I'm sure I'm not the only one. I've spoken about this issue in work and there are many others forced to pretend during the pride month as in reality they find it a bit disturbing to have a month of our faces being rubbed in glitter, spandex and leather.

Yeah thats part of the problem here too. A lot of posters on here want LGBT people to listen to their viewpoints but refuse to listen to LGBT peoples viewpoints. And of course then when LGBT people feel they are being spoken at they get their heckles rised and quite dogmatic and then of course they start getting called "precious persecuted sjws" because some people cant handle that people disagree with them. And then of course this raises heckles more because of the name calling.

Yeah your attitude of name calling pushes me away too. Its like you have no argument anymore so just resort to insults.

kunst nugget · 05-07-2018 09:18AM

Deleted User wrote: »

And if they don't believe him to be gay, but continue to make the insults and the assault? Is that still a homophobic attack? I wouldn't have thought it would be.

If you're beating the crap out of someone and calling a person a fággot while doing it, how are you going to turn around and claim it's not a homophobic attack?

'Ah, you know, I just call everyone I beat up fággot. Nah, nah, nah, I'm not being homophobic, I'm just using a homophobic slur. It's really a term of endearment for my victim. I'm actually really pro-gay rights and I'm actually trying to claim back the word, like those black fellas did with nígga!'

kunst nugget · 05-07-2018 09:24AM

ELM327 wrote: »

You can't speak to some people, there's a lot of precious people or social justice warriors on this thread.

I started out on the thread as a middle ground person, yes voter to SSM and to abortion.

But the attitudes of the "persecuted" on this thread is not turning me towards their cause, instead pushing me away. And I'm sure I'm not the only one. I've spoken about this issue in work and there are many others forced to pretend during the pride month as in reality they find it a bit disturbing to have a month of our faces being rubbed in glitter, spandex and leather.

You're calling people snowflakes, precious and social justice warriors. Seriously, you're never going to get anywhere when you start calling people that and then you're claiming it's the other side pushing you away. I think you're doing that all by yourself.

And does a bit of rainbow bunting in your office and a couple of 'inspirational' emails really amount to a month of your face being rubbed in glitter, spandex and leather.

ELM327 · 05-07-2018 09:31AM

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Yeah thats part of the problem here too. A lot of posters on here want LGBT people to listen to their viewpoints but refuse to listen to LGBT peoples viewpoints. And of course then when LGBT people feel they are being spoken at they get their heckles rised and quite dogmatic and then of course they start getting called "precious persecuted sjws" because some people cant handle that people disagree with them. And then of course this raises heckles more because of the name calling.

Yeah your attitude of name calling pushes me away too. Its like you have no argument anymore so just resort to insults.

That's not what happens from the start though.
I'm not LGBT so it's not my interest that is looking to be progressed. It's yours (collective). So if you're turning everyone off by overexposure is that really in your interest.

I have not insulted anyone, I forgot I cannot say anything without insulting anyone.

I've presented myself as a middle ground person, not a bearded lefty and not a religious nut conservative but you're pushing me away from the middle towards the right with all this crap to be honest.

kunst nugget wrote: »

You're calling people snowflakes, precious and social justice warriors. Seriously, you're never going to get anywhere when you start calling people that and then you're claiming it's the other side pushing you away. I think you're doing that all by yourself.

And does a bit of rainbow bunting in your office and a couple of 'inspirational' emails really amount to a month of your face being rubbed in glitter, spandex and leather.

People are precious. People are snowflakes. And when you can't tell someone not to rub their sexuality in my face... which is not any of my business or concern to begin with I might add, I couldnt care less who or what consenting adult/s you elect to fornicate with... then yes people are offended by anything. I call them the #triggered generation. Many of you on this thread are like that. Perhaps you should all head back to your little echo chamber lgbt forum.

kunst nugget · 05-07-2018 10:10AM

ELM327 wrote: »

I call them the #triggered generation. Many of you on this thread are like that. Perhaps you should all head back to your little echo chamber lgbt forum.

I'm not gay so I wouldn't use the LGBT forum. I'm just giving my perspective as a straight person who is happy to support gay rights and went along to Pride and took the opportunity to march in the parade when given the chance - partly driven to show support after some of the stuff I read on here in the run up to it.

There's a whole truckload of irony in calling other people on this thread triggered…

ohnonotgmail · 05-07-2018 10:12AM

kunst nugget wrote: »

I'm not gay so I wouldn't use the LGBT forum. I'm just giving my perspective as a straight person who is happy to support gay rights and went along to Pride and took the opportunity to march in the parade when given the chance - partly driven to show support after some of the stuff I read on here in the run up to it.

There's a whole truckload of irony in calling other people on this thread triggered…

There certainly is. ELM327 was so triggered by Pride that it turned him against the gays.

ELM327 · 05-07-2018 10:30AM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

There certainly is. ELM327 was so triggered by Pride that it turned him against the gays.

Do you think that's a helpful comment?

ohnonotgmail · 05-07-2018 10:32AM

ELM327 wrote: »

Do you think that's a helpful comment?

do you think using phrases like triggered, snowflake, precious and social justice warriors is helpful?

Annasopra · 05-07-2018 10:42AM

kunst nugget wrote: »

There's a whole truckload of irony in calling other people on this thread triggered…

Exactly. And the irony in saying he can't saying he can't speak to us when all he's doing is name calling. It's like he is I dunno triggered maybe.

Yeah Elm isnt actually making any arguments at all. He just wants to sit on the sidelines and be triggered.

ELM327 · 05-07-2018 10:48AM

"all he's doing is name calling"

That's not how I entered the thread though, causation?

05-07-2018 11:01AM

kunst nugget wrote: »

If you're beating the crap out of someone and calling a person a fággot while doing it, how are you going to turn around and claim it's not a homophobic attack?

You're not listening. fággot is not the same as the N word or a host of other insults usually used for specific purposes. fággot is not used only towards gay people. It can be used against any male to suggest that they are gay, regardless of their actual orientation. It's a word used to show massive lack of respect in a very masculine culture.

I've seen/heard the word used in so many situations without there being a gay person nearby.

EdIt: Ok. I see the difference. Any use of Gay related insults or references while being aggressive is homophobia regardless of the actual situation. I hadn't realised it was such an umbrella term to cover so much.

LLMMLL wrote: »

think there are some clear differences between your experiences in China and a gay persons experiences in Ireland that would produce different experiences, even if you both were chased or beaten.

And I'm not disputing that. What I said originally is different to what you're seeking to argue here.

Well the three main ways in general would be PDAs/holding hands, perceived campness, or overhearing the conversation as they walk past.

Except we are talking about the experience of gmisk here, not the attack in Portlaoise, and the example provided didn't suggest any of that kind of behavior, or that he was with another gay person. Instead, the attackers were shouting fággot, and attacking him.

So, how did the attackers know he was gay? Why did you, and other posters assume they knew he was gay?

I would say I’m just as aware as you are of how boys and men’s minds work.

How? You're female and I'm male. You kinda missed the whole period of growing up and living in a male culture as a male.

You seem to believe that your understanding is somehow special, but others can't come close. You objected to what I wrote about understanding Gay experiences from a similar perspective, but you understand them... and you also understand perfectly heterosexual male culture.

I'm not seeking to insult you, but... really? You don't see the conflict here? You present yourself as understanding essentially everything, but object when others seek to present their own understanding.

I don’t see any reason to believe that random attackers of straight people tend to use homophobic language. I know people who have been gay bashed while being called names. I also know straight people who have been assaulted, and while I can’t say for certain their attackers didn’t use homophobic language, it’s certainly never been mentioned to me.

It’s a big leap to think that because it is or was a fairly common insult among men that random assaulters use it against the straight men they are assaulting.

Been in many fights as a male? I'm done arguing this point.

Rory28 · 05-07-2018 12:01PM

This topic was recently discussed on the LGBT forum. The question asked was the port laois attack a homophobic one or wrong place wrong time one. I am still of the opinion that attack would have happened to anyone regardless of if they were gay or straight. People from the area said the area was rough and we all know the kind of scumbags that do this. They called them f****t while kicking the sh1t out of them but it still doesn't make it a homophobic attack. They werent targeted because they were gay they were targeted because they were there.

On a different note. ELM327 you are a homophobe. If all it takes is a bit of decoration to push you over the line from middle ground to being against gay people then you were already passed the middle ground. You are just looking for an excuse to justify it.

ELM327 · 05-07-2018 12:08PM

Rory28 wrote: »

This topic was recently discussed on the LGBT forum. The question asked was the port laois attack a homophobic one or wrong place wrong time one. I am still of the opinion that attack would have happened to anyone regardless of if they were gay or straight. People from the area said the area was rough and we all know the kind of scumbags that do this. They called them f****t while kicking the sh1t out of them but it still doesn't make it a homophobic attack. They werent targeted because they were gay they were targeted because they were there.

Agreed

Rory28 wrote: »

On a different note. ELM327 you are a homophobe. If all it takes is a bit of decoration to push you over the line from middle ground to being against gay people then you were already passed the middle ground. You are just looking for an excuse to justify it.

I am not afraid of anyone, "phobe" as a derivative of phobia means fear

Annasopra · 05-07-2018 12:12PM

Rory28 wrote: »

This topic was recently discussed on the LGBT forum. The question asked was the port laois attack a homophobic one or wrong place wrong time one. I am still of the opinion that attack would have happened to anyone regardless of if they were gay or straight. People from the area said the area was rough and we all know the kind of scumbags that do this. They called them f****t while kicking the sh1t out of them but it still doesn't make it a homophobic attack. They werent targeted because they were gay they were targeted because they were there.

On a different note. ELM327 you are a homophobe. If all it takes is a bit of decoration to push you over the line from middle ground to being against gay people then you were already passed the middle ground. You are just looking for an excuse to justify it.

I dont understand this logic at all. If someone is being beaten up and during that process they are subjected to homophobic abuse then I look at the attack overall in that context. I dont separate it out and say oh well it wasnt homophobic because it wasnt planned. The logic that you dont call it a homophobic attack even though there was homophobic abuse makes no sense whatsoever. In the whole it is a homophobic attack in my view.

I dont think elm327 is a homophobe, more that he cant discuss things where he has to listen to differing viewpoints. Because he gets stuck in his own argument of "I am right you are wrong" he has no argument left then and can only resort to childish name calling.

Rory28 · 05-07-2018 12:12PM

ELM327 wrote: »

I am not afraid of anyone, "phobe" as a derivative of phobia means fear

"homophobia

noun
dislike of or prejudice against homosexual people."

Nothing about fear buddy.

Sonics2k · 05-07-2018 12:15PM

Rory28 wrote: »

"homophobia

noun
dislike of or prejudice against homosexual people."

Nothing about fear buddy.

It's amazing how often this needs to be posted, and yet they still don't seem to understand it.

kunst nugget · 05-07-2018 12:19PM

If someone was beating someone up and calling them a 'Jew motherfúcker' without a clear idea if the person being attacked was Jewish, I still call that attack anti-semitic in nature rather than just 'ah, sure it's just wrong place, wrong time'. There's always going to be an element of that in any attack but targeting someone for perceived differences and vocalising those reasons while attacking them is when you stray into the realm of hate crime. I don't know why there's an issue with it from some people when it comes to the word 'fággot'.

Rory28 · 05-07-2018 12:19PM

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

I dont understand this logic at all. If someone is being beaten up and during that process they are subjected to homophobic abuse then I look at the attack overall in that context. I dont separate it out and say oh well it wasnt homophobic because it wasnt planned. The logic that you dont call it a homophobic attack even though there was homophobic abuse makes no sense whatsoever. In the whole it is a homophobic attack in my view.

I dont think elm327 is a homophobe, more that he cant discuss things where he has to listen to differing viewpoints. Because he gets stuck in his own argument of "I am right you are wrong" he has no argument left then and can only resort to childish name calling.

In my own opinion a homophobic attack is when someone is assaulted purely for the reason of them being gay. Gay bashings or Pride parades that get attacked by nazis. Along those lines. The scumbags who attacked didn't do it because they were gay they did because they are violent thugs.

Rory28 · 05-07-2018 12:22PM

kunst nugget wrote: »

If someone was beating someone up and calling them a 'Jew motherfúcker' without a clear idea if the person being attacked was Jewish, I still call that attack anti-semitic in nature rather than just 'ah, sure it's just wrong place, wrong time'. There's always going to be an element of that in any attack but targeting someone for perceived differences and vocalising those reasons while attacking them is when you stray into the realm of hate crime. I don't know why there's an issue with it from some people when it comes to the word 'fággot'.

Jew mother****er isnt a part of a lot peoples vocab. fággot unfortunately is.

kunst nugget · 05-07-2018 12:22PM

Rory28 wrote: »

In my own opinion a homophobic attack is when someone is assaulted purely for the reason of them being gay. Gay bashings or Pride parades that get attacked by nazis. Along those lines. The scumbags who attacked didn't do it because they were gay they did because they are violent thugs.

Out of curiosity, was anyone else beaten to a pulp with hurleys that night?

Rory28 · 05-07-2018 12:24PM

kunst nugget wrote: »

Out of curiosity, was anyone else beaten to a pulp with hurleys that night?

I dont know. Most assaults dont make the news.

LLMMLL · 05-07-2018 01:59PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And I'm not disputing that. What I said originally is different to what you're seeking to argue here.

I don’t think it is. You said it was a fallacy that straight people couldn’t understand what gay people have been through. I’ve pointed out that very few straight people have the experience of fear of PDAs. Specifically
In relation to your Chinese example. The vast majority of Irish straight men have not experienced anything similar to your Chinese example. In addition those that have experienced are likely to have a different experience than gay people for the reasons I already stated. Irish men did not grow up in a society that denigrated irish men who go abroad and date Chinese girls.

Except we are talking about the experience of gmisk here, not the attack in Portlaoise, and the example provided didn't suggest any of that kind of behavior, or that he was with another gay person. Instead, the attackers were shouting fággot, and attacking him.

So, how did the attackers know he was gay? Why did you, and other posters assume they knew he was gay?

I don’t assume they knew he was gay. I assume they thought he was gay. Because I think it’s far more likely that homophobic language is used against gay people in a random attack than straight people.

We’re the Chinese guys using homophobic insults when they attacked you?

05-07-2018 02:52PM

LLMMLL wrote: »

I don’t think it is. You said it was a fallacy that straight people couldn’t understand what gay people have been through. I’ve pointed out that very few straight people have the experience of fear of PDAs. Specifically

Very few doesn't mean none. My point stands.

In relation to your Chinese example. The vast majority of Irish straight men have not experienced anything similar to your Chinese example. In addition those that have experienced are likely to have a different experience than gay people for the reasons I already stated. Irish men did not grow up in a society that denigrated irish men who go abroad and date Chinese girls.

And I never suggested that the majority of Irish men would understand, or have experiences similar to myself. The point was the exclusion of straight men from understanding... that was the fallacy.

I don’t assume they knew he was gay. I assume they thought he was gay. Because I think it’s far more likely that homophobic language is used against gay people in a random attack than straight people.

Naturally... since we've argued about this already. I'm not going to repeat myself on this.

We’re the Chinese guys using homophobic insults when they attacked you?

Nope, they preferred to use the more mainstream insults directed at foreigners. Chinese insults tend to be more about biology, inbreeding and bodily functions, like being called "stupid sperm" although it doesn't translate very well into English. They have a very different approach to insults than here.

LLMMLL · 05-07-2018 03:20PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Very few doesn't mean none. My point stands.

And I never suggested that the majority of Irish men would understand, or have experiences similar to myself. The point was the exclusion of straight men from understanding... that was the fallacy.

So we’re in agreement that the vast majority of straight men do not understand the gay experience? I’m happy enough with that.

Though I still think your Chinese experience give you at best a limited idea of what it would be like to be gay bashed.

Nope, they preferred to use the more mainstream insults directed at foreigners. Chinese insults tend to be more about biology, inbreeding and bodily functions, like being called "stupid sperm" although it doesn't translate very well into English. They have a very different approach to insults than here.

So Irish people use anti-black insults against blacks. Chinese people use anti-foreigner insults against foreigners. But when someone uses anti-gay insults it’s likely that it’s nothing to do with gay people......ok.

Gay Pride at work

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