Gay Pride at work

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Unfortunate.

Wow.
I have a permanent scar from two men attacking me and slashing my face with a stanley knife and that is the best way to sum it up "unfortunate".
Thanks a lot, this thread has turned into a cesspool.

gmisk wrote: »

Wow.
I have a permanent scar from two men attacking me and slashing my face with a stanley knife and that is the best way to sum it up "unfortunate".
Thanks a lot, this thread has turned into a cesspool.

When asked how I would describe anything that is not a persons fault, I would describe it as unfortunate. You weren't responsible for another persons actions so whatever trait or characteristic of yourself that you assume was their motivation is irrelevant, is the way I'd be thinking of it. It still wouldn't justify their actions.

I thought the same when I worked for the Red Ribbon Project in the late 90's and there were a small cohort of people who when they found out I wasn't gay, and that I was Catholic, they proceeded to attempt to make my life a living hell. I'm not going to assume it was anything about me that encouraged their behaviour, because I wasn't responsible either for their attitudes or behaviours - they were. Why should I assume that it was either because I am heterosexual or because I am Catholic that they chose to attempt to intimidate and attack me? A far simpler and more obvious explanation is that they were simply a bunch of assholes who thought I was an easy target they could take out their frustration on.

It was initially unfortunate for me, but it turned out to be rather unfortunate for them that they picked on the wrong target.

gmisk wrote: »

The irony of this persons username "one eyed jack" is not lost on me tbh...i almost lost my left eye..but hey "unfortunate"

The fact that something almost happened to you is irrelevant, it didn't happen. However, having said that, it would be silly of me to suggest that my old man is responsible for a hereditary condition which caused me to lose my sight in one eye. No, I would suggest that too, was simply unfortunate.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I didn't draw the initial comparison in the first place. It was gmisk who compared almost losing an eye to actually losing one's eyesight in one eye. They're really not comparable, and even someone who is blind in both eyes could see that.

I did not make a comparison, I was simply saying it was ironic given your username and what almost happened to me with eye, I clearly had no idea of background of your name. It might be "irrelevant" to you but it isnt to me.
I find your use of the word "unfortunate" though as bizarre and really disrespectful if I am being honest but hey.

gmisk wrote: »

I find your use of the word "unfortunate" though as bizarre and really disrespectful if I am being honest but hey.

I apologise then for using the word as it certainly wasn't intended to be disrespectful.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I apologise then for using the word as it certainly wasn't intended to be disrespectful.

I appreciate that, apology accepted, thanks.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's really funny how 'boxed in' gay people consider themselves sometimes. I've lived in China where I lived in a city of 17 million Chinese people (the province having more) and there were 20k foreigners (not even white people). I've dated women in countries which have a "strong" dislike of foreigners taking/stealing their women. I've had nasty comments thrown at me in the street, objects thrown at me, spat on, and physically assaulted. I've also had the police take me in to their station for disturbing the peace because a group of Chinese guys assaulted me and got injured. I've also been on the receiving end of racial slurs and racial attacks... so... .

Just curious as to what you think would be the more common experience:

Irish gay people having negative prejudice experiences on their lifetime based on displays of affection

Or

Irish straight people having negative prejudice experiences in their lifetime based on displays of affection

So take a specific example which has been raised in relation to gay people and which you’ve raised in relation to straight people: being seen in public as part of a couple.

Would you say more gay irish men have experienced a problem with this in their lifetime or more straight irish men (for instance from being in a country where the locals don’t approve).

Also what would the experience of a gay irish man dating a gay Chinese man be if he was walking down the street in China?

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Oh, definitely Irish gay men. But then I never suggested otherwise. I simply pointed out the fallacy in his assumption that straight people could never understand what Gay people have gone through.



Ahh but China is very different about homosexuality since it's still technically illegal to be gay there. They haven't enforced the law regarding gay men for years, but a gay foreigner would have to step very lightly.

It’s not a fallacy. There’s multiple differences between what different groups experience even if the circumstances seem similar on the outside.

I know gay people who have been attacked for no apparent reason. They pretty much shrugged it off other than being a bit more nervous about similar situations. And I know people who have had similar attacks but which had a homophobic element. They seemed to find it much more traumatic and it affected them a lot more.

Your situation of experiencing abuse as an ethnic minority expat is not the same as that of a gay person. You can’t assume that you understand what they go through. Just as I would not assume I would understand what you went through in those Chinese situations or what a black person goes through when they are racially abused.

There are some clear differences in experience. You didn’t grow up in a society that portrayed dating a Chinese girl in China as deviant. You didn’t grow up with friends making nasty jokes about people who date Chinese girl in China etc. These things have an effect which compounds the physical attack.

And it goes both way. I can imagine how I might feel being abused abroad for dating a local but I don’t know. There could be lots of things that I’m imagining incorrectly because I’ve never actually experienced it.

Assuming you understand something because you’ve experienced something that has some similarities is a faulty assumption.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don't get it. Been thinking about what you said above, but I don't understand it... unless the aggressors believed him to be gay. How would a non-gay person experience homophobia without that?

If someone doesn't think he's gay, or doesn't care, calls him a ****** or whatever slur, and continues to assault him, how is that a homophobic attack?

I’m assuming they did believe him to be gay.

The other example he gave was a white person being attacked and being called the N word. Have you ever heard of that happening? As someone else pointed out, that would be ludicrous. People use certain slurs for certain reasons.

If they were calling him a queer or ****** then most likely they thought he was gay.

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't get it. Been thinking about what you said above, but I don't understand it... unless the aggressors believed him to be gay.

Exactly. If a person is perceived to gay then they can be the target of a homophobic attack.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Personally, IMO, Assuming that your experience in life is completely unique, and nobody can have experiences similar to yours is worse. I never said that I experienced what gay people have experienced, but I can appreciate some of what they experienced from examples in my own life. As can other people in various situations. The example I gave was in line with the previous posters contribution.

I never claimed people don’t have similar experiences. Being mugged is a “similar” experience to a gay bashing. I’m criticising the notion that someone who has experienced something “similar” understands the experience of the other person/group. I’m sure you can appreciate some of what gay people have experienced. But only some. I think there are some clear differences between your experiences in China and a gay persons experiences in Ireland that would produce different experiences, even if you both were chased or beaten.

And the other posters have asked how would they have known considering they were strangers?

Well the three main ways in general would be PDAs/holding hands, perceived campness, or overhearing the conversation as they walk past.

I don't think you understand the way boys/mens minds work, or the environment of male peer pressure. What is the worst insult to say to someone during a period when homosexuality was considered "wrong"? Yup.

Oh, you get the mother jokes, and inbreeding jokes, but you get past them pretty quickly during school but being accused or connected with being gay in a very masculine environment? That's a strong insult. And while it's worst when you're in school, it's the type of insult that continues to be used by various people until well into adulthood.

It doesn't matter whether they think you are or not. In all probability, they don't care... it's an insult designed to get a reaction, and generally, also designed to cast doubt over your reputation.

As for using the N word on white people... I have. Calling someone their ****** to suggest they're a slave. It wouldn't be common, but then, quite a few males have turned to the whole "gangland" or "black culture" way of speaking. In my experience, Black people use the N word far more than anyone else... and that's carried in their music which, in turn, is carried to those who like that kind of culture.

I would say I’m just as aware as you are of how boys and men’s minds work.

I don’t see any reason to believe that random attackers of straight people tend to use homophobic language. I know people who have been gay bashed while being called names. I also know straight people who have been assaulted, and while I can’t say for certain their attackers didn’t use homophobic language, it’s certainly never been mentioned to me.

It’s a big leap to think that because it is or was a fairly common insult among men that random assaulters use it against the straight men they are assaulting.

As for racial insults against white people, even given your example where you use it, I think we can agree that it’s mostly used as an abusive term against black people. Quite a few Black people and some white people use it as a non abusive term for their friends. But as an abusive term it’s pretty much restricted to use against black people.

And I see it used relatively often against black people in Dublin and clearly in an abusive manner. It seems super duper unlikely to me that when a white person in Dublin is screaming the N word at a black person, that it’s just a coincidence and they would have screamed the N word at a white person in the same circumstances. So why is it unlikely that when a gay person is attacked and homophobic language is used against them that it’s a homophobic attack.

The parallels are clear and it seems far more likely that it’s a homophobic attack rather than a coincidence and they would have called a straight person they were attackig the exact same names.