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Gay Pride at work

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Comments

  • #422
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 16,208 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    JupiterKid wrote: »
    I never claimed that there was "widespread" homophobia in Ireland. This is not Russia but I did say there was an awful lot of it still about which I stand over and this will continue to be the case for a very long time - unfortunate and I realise that but that doesn't mean that I should tolerate that kind of crap.

    "There is still an awful lot of strong homophobia around in this country"

    Okay, you didn't say it was widespread. An Awful lot of strong homophobia. Which suggests that it's fairly common in Irish society. Which it isn't. [unless you want to prove there is?) Oh, I'm sure there are a lot of people who don't enjoy or want to see gay men kissing in public, but that's not homophobia.
    It's easy for straight people who have never had to put up with prejudice, bigotry and hatred/verbal/physical violence on account of who they are attracted to and love to think that LGBT people have got more than enough rights at this stage. Utterly condescending and ignorant position to have.

    It's really funny how 'boxed in' gay people consider themselves sometimes. I've lived in China where I lived in a city of 17 million Chinese people (the province having more) and there were 20k foreigners (not even white people). I've dated women in countries which have a "strong" dislike of foreigners taking/stealing their women. I've had nasty comments thrown at me in the street, objects thrown at me, spat on, and physically assaulted. I've also had the police take me in to their station for disturbing the peace because a group of Chinese guys assaulted me and got injured. I've also been on the receiving end of racial slurs and racial attacks... so...

    So, this "you have no idea of what I've gone through" stuff is rubbish. Oh, There's a lot of being LGBT that I will never experience, especially with regards to family... but honestly, the same can be said about them regarding being heterosexual. Being heterosexual doesn't guarantee you flowers and good vibes. (And i do have a variety of Gay friends I've known for over 20 years, and I've seen/heard their problems, as they have mine)

    In Ireland, LGBT people are equal to heterosexual people. Legally. Even socially in most cases. The remainder of changes needed to occur are going to take time, and gaining more 'rights' isn't going to speed anything up. If anything, gaining more rights encourages people to consider LGBT as being different, and therefore worthy of dislike/jealousy/hatred. The whole point is to make them equal with everyone else, so that culturally/socially there is no difference being raised.


  • #423
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,439 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    JupiterKid wrote: »
    Well no actually...until same sex couples can freely walk around every city and town in this country holding each others hands and express affection without fear of being abused or attacked then true equality will not be reached. We've come a huge way but there is still a way to go yet.


    Has it ever occurred to you that because people who are LGB or T are a minority in society, and because we actually don't see the majority of heterosexual couples engaging in public displays of affection, that far more people who are heterosexual are wary about expressing public displays of affection than people who are homosexual? That is to say, the aversion to public displays of affection isn't at all based upon prejudice against people who are homosexual, but rather it's an aversion simply towards anyone, regardless of their gender or sexual orientation, displaying their affection for each other in public.

    Plenty of people I know and have known throughout my lifetime who are either gay, lesbian, bisexual or transgender have been just as averse to public displays of affection as I am. That doesn't make us either heterophobic, nor homophobic. It just is what it is, regardless of gender or sexual orientation. The only reason you associate a fear of displaying affection in public with homosexuality is due to your own prejudices, and as this thread is about Pride in the workplace, I would be surprised to see anyone, regardless of gender or sexual orientation, displaying affection for each other in the workplace. It's not discrimination, it's the belief that some behaviours are simply inappropriate in public, and best kept private. Different standards is all, nothing to do with either gender or sexual orientation at all.


  • #424
    JupiterKid
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,954 ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    No point being in this thread any longer. It’s just become a circular, unproductive tit for tat exchange. Some posters just love to give out about minorities and then try to rationalise and intellectualise their own deep seated prejudices.

    It’s a hoot that I, and other LGBT people, are accused of having prejudices when those making such accusations are clearly very biased in their own opinions.:rolleyes: The reality is that we all have prejudices but clearly some have many more than others and like to voice these every chance they get.

    Let me guess....”some of my best friends are gay.”


  • #425
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    JupiterKid wrote: »
    No point being in this thread any longer. It’s just become a circular, unproductive tit for tat exchange. Some posters just love to give out about minorities and then try to rationalise and intellectualise their own deep seated prejudices.

    It’s a hoot that I, and other LGBT people, are accused of having prejudices when those making such accusations are clearly very biased in their own opinions.:rolleyes: The reality is that we all have prejudices but clearly some have many more than others and like to voice these every chance they get.

    Let me guess....”some of my best friends are gay.”

    You dropped this.


  • #426
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    You dropped this.

    Ooooh… edgy.


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  • #427
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,930 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    You dropped this.
    +1

    JupiterKid wrote: »
    No point being in this thread any longer. It’s just become a circular, unproductive tit for tat exchange. Some posters just love to give out about minorities and then try to rationalise and intellectualise their own deep seated prejudices.

    It’s a hoot that I, and other LGBT people, are accused of having prejudices when those making such accusations are clearly very biased in their own opinions.rolleyes.png The reality is that we all have prejudices but clearly some have many more than others and like to voice these every chance they get.

    Let me guess....”some of my best friends are gay.”
    Ah the old... I'm right and you're not agreeing so I'm done response. How very 21st century snowflake of you.


  • #428
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,365 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    ELM327 wrote: »
    +1



    Ah the old... I'm right and you're not agreeing so I'm done response. How very 21st century snowflake of you.




    I see we are playing alt-right bingo again. what is the prize for a full house this time?


  • #429
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,930 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    I see we are playing alt-right bingo again. what is the prize for a full house this time?
    Sorry of course you are right. How dare anyone have a different opinion.


  • #430
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Sorry of course you are right. How dare anyone have a different opinion.

    After you just called someone a snowflake? Ffs…


  • #431
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,930 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    kunst nugget wrote: »
    After you just called someone a snowflake? Ffs…
    This BS post is the mindless droning of a snowflake.




    I'm sorry but today I identify as someone who is p1ssed off by snowflakes so I can't take that. Maybe tomorrow I'll identify as a snowflake? Who knows, it is 2018 and that's the way it's going.
    JupiterKid wrote: »
    No point being in this thread any longer. It’s just become a circular, unproductive tit for tat exchange. Some posters just love to give out about minorities and then try to rationalise and intellectualise their own deep seated prejudices.

    It’s a hoot that I, and other LGBT people, are accused of having prejudices when those making such accusations are clearly very biased in their own opinions.:rolleyes: The reality is that we all have prejudices but clearly some have many more than others and like to voice these every chance they get.

    Let me guess....”some of my best friends are gay.”


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  • #432
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    ELM327 wrote: »
    This BS post is the mindless droning of a snowflake.

    I'm sorry but today I identify as someone who is p1ssed off by snowflakes so I can't take that. Maybe tomorrow I'll identify as a snowflake? Who knows, it is 2018 and that's the way it's going.

    I think your mask is starting to slip there…


  • #433
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 16,208 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    JupiterKid wrote: »
    No point being in this thread any longer. It’s just become a circular, unproductive tit for tat exchange. Some posters just love to give out about minorities and then try to rationalise and intellectualise their own deep seated prejudices.

    It’s a hoot that I, and other LGBT people, are accused of having prejudices when those making such accusations are clearly very biased in their own opinions.:rolleyes: The reality is that we all have prejudices but clearly some have many more than others and like to voice these every chance they get.

    Let me guess....”some of my best friends are gay.”

    Except there has been no exchange.

    You simply wanted to come here and state your opinion, and be greeted with applause. You claimed that the attack in Portlaoise was related to homophobia... no evidence to support that claim. You claimed that there was big amount of strong homophobia in Ireland... but no evidence to support it. And when you suggest only LGBT people are victimised in this manner, I point out that others can experience similar, but rather than respond directly, you put up the above.

    You have not exchanged once. So... no. You're not getting any sympathy from me. And oddly, enough some of my best friends are gay.... but not like you. They don't have this sense of paranoia and they welcome the change that has happened to Ireland. But then, they're probably older and remember what it was like when being Gay actually was extremely difficult. :rolleyes:


  • #434
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,365 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    kunst nugget wrote: »
    I think your mask is starting to slip there…


    oh i think that slipped a long time ago


  • #435
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    I see we are playing alt-right bingo again. what is the prize for a full house this time?

    Elm is an interesting poster for this actually. They have said on a few occasions they have issues with homosexuality (can't remember the specifics, it came up on the 8th threads) so could easily display what jupiter kid was referring to in terms of uncomfortable looks and not feeling welcome etc.

    However Elm also voted for SSM meaning they're not coming from a bad place, and may actually be far more open to, even outright interested in, talking to gay people to get their perspective. I don't want to go out and talk on behalf of them, but if I'm remembering right that is the jist of what they had said.

    That's a long way from alt right to be fair. I'd be highly critical of a good few things in Ireland, but we're one of our strengths is talking things out for the most part, and in terms of how a lot of people see gay folk, we have made ridiculous progress in a relatively short amount of time because of this.

    We can't just expect quick and immediate change from everyone nice as it would be, and while AH has more than its fair share of alt right knobheads I really don't think it's fair or accurate to say as much about Elm.


  • #436
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Except there has been no exchange.

    You simply wanted to come here and state your opinion, and be greeted with applause. You claimed that the attack in Portlaoise was related to homophobia... no evidence to support that claim. You claimed that there was big amount of strong homophobia in Ireland... but no evidence to support it. And when you suggest only LGBT people are victimised in this manner, I point out that others can experience similar, but rather than respond directly, you put up the above.

    Weren't you saying basically saying that other people that are different or stand out, like foreigners, get beat up as well so that means there was no homophobic element to the attack?


  • #437
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,930 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Elm is an interesting poster for this actually. They have said on a few occasions they have issues with homosexuality (can't remember the specifics, it came up on the 8th threads) so could easily display what jupiter kid was referring to in terms of uncomfortable looks and not feeling welcome etc.

    However Elm also voted for SSM meaning they're not coming from a bad place, and may actually be far more open to, even outright interested in, talking to gay people to get their perspective. I don't want to go out and talk on behalf of them, but if I'm remembering right that is the jist of what they had said.

    That's a long way from alt right to be fair. I'd be highly critical of a good few things in Ireland, but we're one of our strengths is talking things out for the most part, and in terms of how a lot of people see gay folk, we have made ridiculous progress in a relatively short amount of time because of this.

    We can't just expect quick and immediate change from everyone nice as it would be, and while AH has more than its fair share of alt right knobheads I really don't think it's fair or accurate to say as much about Elm.


    Yeah that's pretty much it to a T to be honest.
    And it's why I get p1ssed sometimes when people accuse me of being alt right etc. I'm not actually right wing at all really on social issues. I voted yes to SSM, yes to abortion, would have voted yes to divorce, will vote yes to cannibis being legalised, etc etc.


    But - like it or not - I do cringe internally when I see public display of affection between two men. And whether we like to admit it or not, a lot of people still have this.


    I'm the "middle ground" that should be targeted by these people. I believe everyone should have equal rights and if two men (or two women) want to be together then why is it any of my business. And I'd never discriminate against someone based on their sexuality


    What I do have an issue with, however, is "pride fatigue". We were bombarded for weeks in work about pride activities,multiple emails, happy pride, photos, threads from other countries etc. And I for one am sick of it being rubbed in our faces. We get it... you're gay. And I wouldn't discriminate against you for it or even think anything negative about your sexuality as it's none of my business. But if I were to bombard you with messages about straight relationships, photos, events etc for a month every year then you'd be sick of it too.


    As I say... I'm not the "alt right". I'm not a nut job or a conservative religious loon (I'm actually part of the protest against the pope coming). Just an example of middle ireland.


  • #438
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,930 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    kunst nugget wrote: »
    Weren't you saying basically saying that other people that are different or stand out, like foreigners, get beat up as well so that means there was no homophobic element to the attack?
    People get beaten up in bad areas.


    The fact that they are gay/foreign may or may not have anything to do with it.


  • #439
    wakka12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Yeah that's pretty much it to a T to be honest.
    And it's why I get p1ssed sometimes when people accuse me of being alt right etc. I'm not actually right wing at all really on social issues. I voted yes to SSM, yes to abortion, would have voted yes to divorce, will vote yes to cannibis being legalised, etc etc.


    But - like it or not - I do cringe internally when I see public display of affection between two men. And whether we like to admit it or not, a lot of people still have this.


    I'm the "middle ground" that should be targeted by these people. I believe everyone should have equal rights and if two men (or two women) want to be together then why is it any of my business. And I'd never discriminate against someone based on their sexuality


    What I do have an issue with, however, is "pride fatigue". We were bombarded for weeks in work about pride activities,multiple emails, happy pride, photos, threads from other countries etc. And I for one am sick of it being rubbed in our faces. We get it... you're gay. And I wouldn't discriminate against you for it or even think anything negative about your sexuality as it's none of my business. But if I were to bombard you with messages about straight relationships, photos, events etc for a month every year then you'd be sick of it too.


    As I say... I'm not the "alt right". I'm not a nut job or a conservative religious loon (I'm actually part of the protest against the pope coming). Just an example of middle ireland.

    funnily enough the people messaging you about activities and sending email were probably not gay

    Also I don't agree that middle ireland cringe at sight of two men kissing or holding hands


  • #440
    gmisk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,718 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    ELM327 wrote: »
    People get beaten up in bad areas.


    The fact that they are gay/foreign may or may not have anything to do with it.
    Well they area i was attacked in would be considered a "good area" its kilmainham....and it was right beside a Gardai station.
    I was called a f#ggot by two lads with there faces covered and slashed in the face with a stanley knife...would you consider that a homophobic attack?


  • #441
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    ELM327 wrote: »
    But - like it or not - I do cringe internally when I see public display of affection between two men. And whether we like to admit it or not, a lot of people still have this.

    Why do you think this is? Would you cringe internally with a man and a woman or two women in the same position?


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  • #442
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,930 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Wow.. already three people criticising after only a few minutes.
    Sometimes you liberals are your own worst enemy.


    wakka12 wrote: »
    funnily enough the people messaging you about activities and sending email were probably not gay

    Also I don't agree that middle ireland cringe at sight of two men kissing or holding hands
    You can agree or not but I live and socialise there and it's what I see

    gmisk wrote: »
    Well they area i was attacked in would be considered a "good area" its kilmainham....and it was right beside a Gardai station.
    I was called a f#ggot by two lads with there faces covered and slashed in the face with a stanley knife...would you consider that a homophobic attack?
    I hate to break it to you but kilmainham is most certainly not a good area. But I digress.
    I've been called a f#ggot and other homophobic slurs too and set upon in bad areas. Does that make it a homophobic attack? Remember now, I'm not gay.

    kunst nugget wrote: »
    Why do you think this is? Would you cringe internally with a man and a woman or two women in the same position?
    Because we've had it beat into us by the catholic church and through previous generations.


    Honest answer to your second question, it would depend. I probably would, but to a lesser amount.


  • #443
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,439 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    gmisk wrote: »
    Well they area i was attacked in would be considered a "good area" its kilmainham....and it was right beside a Gardai station.
    I was called a f#ggot by two lads with there faces covered and slashed in the face with a stanley knife...would you consider that a homophobic attack?


    I don't think anyone other than the people who carried out the attack could answer as to what their motivations were for carrying out the attack. We're moving away from old ideas where the victim of an attack was held somehow responsible for their being attacked, so whether or not a person is or isn't gay is irrelevant. Nobody but the people who attacked you can know why they attacked you.


  • #444
    gmisk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,718 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    ELM327 wrote: »
    I hate to break it to you but kilmainham is most certainly not a good area. But I digress.
    I've been called a f#ggot and other homophobic slurs too and set upon in bad areas. Does that make it a homophobic attack? Remember now, I'm not gay.
    I think a lot of people would now consider it a good area...but yes you digress. "you liberals" you are embarassing yourself with this tripe.

    They didnt ask for a wallet or money or a phone....they just shouted F#GGOT repeatedly before slashing me from the top of my forehead down over my eye lid and nose with a stanley knife...
    So you would call what happened to me what exactly?


  • #445
    wakka12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    Im not criticising just don't agree that majority of people cringe when they see it, I'm talking about central dublin and people seem to take nearly no notice of two men kissing or holding hands


  • #446
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,037 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    ELM327 wrote: »
    +1



    Ah the old... I'm right and you're not agreeing so I'm done response. How very 21st century snowflake of you.

    God, the irony of calling someone a snowflake on a thread moaning about Gay Pride being celebrated in a society which has historically made life extremely bad for the LGBT community.


  • #447
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    The interesting thing about the event on Saturday was that it was a good platform for airing issues about relevant to the community and about issues of acceptance not only from the general public but from within the community itself. There was also some sly digs about the corporate takeover of the event from one or two speakers as well.

    There was whoring for votes from the likes of Mary Lou but considering I was a teenager when homosexuality was decriminalised in this country, give me Mary Lou's stance over what was there 25 years ago.

    Being stuck in the walker's section at Stephen's Green before the march, walking the route and at Smithfield after for some of the speeches and performances, I didn't see anything outrageous - unless you consider a few drag queens and topless men unacceptable. It was a very safe, family friendly event for the whole day until we left about 6.30pm.


  • #448
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,930 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    gmisk wrote: »
    I think a lot of people would now consider it a good area...but yes you digress. "you liberals" you are embarassing yourself with this tripe.

    They didnt ask for a wallet or money or a phone....they just shouted F#GGOT repeatedly before slashing me from the top of my forehead down over my eye lid and nose with a stanley knife...
    So you would call what happened to me what exactly?


    If they did the same attack shouting "pikey" or "n1gger" would that make it an anti traveller or anti black attack? Remember now, you're not a traveller and not black (for the purpose of this discussion)
    wakka12 wrote: »
    Im not criticising just don't agree that majority of people cringe when they see it, I'm talking about central dublin and people seem to take nearly no notice of two men kissing or holding hands
    Central dublin does not represent middle ireland.


  • #449
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,439 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    gmisk wrote: »
    They didnt ask for a wallet or money or a phone....they just shouted F#GGOT repeatedly before slashing me from the top of my forehead down over my eye lid and nose with a stanley knife...
    So you would call what happened to me what exactly?


    Unfortunate.


  • #450
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    ELM327 wrote: »
    If they did the same attack shouting "pikey" or "n1gger" would that make it an anti traveller or anti black attack? Remember now, you're not a traveller and not black (for the purpose of this discussion)

    Who is ever going to shout 'n1gger' at a white person in Ireland when beating them up?


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  • #451
    gmisk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,718 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    ELM327 wrote: »
    If they did the same attack shouting "pikey" or "n1gger" would that make it an anti traveller or anti black attack? Remember now, you're not a traveller and not black (for the purpose of this discussion)
    I honestly have no idea what you are trying to get at now...are you saying there are not racist attacks either?

    So you think it was just what then an "attack"..totally random?


    If someone shouted "n1gger" repeatedly at me before then slashing me with a stanley knife I would be confused and probably think they were mentally ill, I really dont get your point at all.


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