Dublin - BusConnects

Stephen15 · 25-06-2018 4:59pm

The SGs or GTs don't pollute as much don't seem to pollute as much as older buses. When I'm out walking or cycling you definitely don't get as much of a raft of diesel fumes coming out of them as much as you used to or on older buses such as AVs or VTs.

A 100% electric fleet should be the long term goal but DB don't yet have the resources to charge large amounts of buses in their depots I'm not sure how practical electric vehicles are for city buses which are in constant use all day.

Perhaps they could have charging stations at terminuses so buses can charge while they are laying over without having to go back to the depot. I should hope GA have their Ballymount depot fitted with charging stations or at least have them all wired up and ready to go.

LeinsterDub · 25-06-2018 5:20pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

A 100% electric fleet should be the long term goal but DB don't yet have the resources to charge large amounts of buses in their depots I'm not sure how practical electric vehicles are for city buses which are in constant use all day.

The focus is on the vehicle charging and battery technology, which are interchangeable within the rear module. The three different options available are:

• Overnight charging utilising Nickel Manganese Cobalt batteries, with a range of 150 miles or 18 hours of service. Suitable for single deck;

http://www.wrightsgroup.com/news/news_item/WRIGHTBUS-WELCOMES-OLEV-RESULTS-ANNOUNCEMENT

Sam Russell · 25-06-2018 5:24pm

Would it be possible to re-engine the bus fleet, or even upgrade them to EV?

Most of the bus structure is the same - only the drive gear needs changing. London Transport are still running 40 year old Routemasters. [Not many though].

bk · 25-06-2018 6:42pm

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Leo did just say that all new DB and BE buses will be low or no emissions buses.

I suspect this will end up with 95 Diesel Hybrid buses and 5 EV buses, but perhaps that is just the cynic in me.

Stephen15 wrote: »

The SGs or GTs don't pollute as much don't seem to pollute as much as older buses. When I'm out walking or cycling you definitely don't get as much of a raft of diesel fumes coming out of them as much as you used to or on older buses such as AVs or VTs.

Yes, they have Euro 6 engines, which are actually incredibly low polluting. A Volkwagen Golf actually produces significantly more pollution then one of these buses!

We now have a much bigger problem with pollution from cars then we do for buses. But no harm in going even further with buses.

Stephen15 wrote: »

A 100% electric fleet should be the long term goal but DB don't yet have the resources to charge large amounts of buses in their depots I'm not sure how practical electric vehicles are for city buses which are in constant use all day.

Perhaps they could have charging stations at terminuses so buses can charge while they are laying over without having to go back to the depot. I should hope GA have their Ballymount depot fitted with charging stations or at least have them all wired up and ready to go.

While it is possible to charge EV buses using inductive charging at bus stops, I think that is all too complicated. I think EV buses will only take off when they can charge over night and then do a full days duty on that single charge.

One thing to remember the start/stop nature of buses is highly suited to EV's.

Also worth keeping in mind that only about 40% of the DB fleet is out all day. 60% sit in the depot between the peaks. You could do a top-up charge then.

While EV buses might not be suited to every single route (44 to Enniskerry), with a bit of crativity I think you could get there for 80 or 90% of routes and buses.

BTW EV buses are already very much here. China is now building 9,000 EV buses every 6 weeks! That is the entire London Bus fleet every 6 weeks!

Only issue is they are all single deckers. Making really good single decker buses with plenty of range is actually relatively easy. What is hard is making double decker EV's. It doesn't really seem to have been cracked yet and that is obviously an issue for UK/Ireland.

Though Cork would love to get some of those single decker EV's

Sam Russell wrote: »

Would it be possible to re-engine the bus fleet, or even upgrade them to EV?

It is technically possible, there is actually one EV double decker prototype going around that was originally a Diesel bus. But I think it is too expensive and not really worth the effort.

Probably better off just introducing new purpose built EV buses gradually and use them to phase out the oldest, most polluting buses in the fleet.

Sam Russell · 25-06-2018 7:21pm

bk wrote: »

Sam Russell wrote: »

Would it be possible to re-engine the bus fleet, or even upgrade them to EV?

Most of the bus structure is the same - only the drive gear needs changing. London Transport are still running 40 year old Routemasters. [Not many though].

It is technically possible, there is actually one EV double decker prototype going around that was originally a Diesel bus. But I think it is too expensive and not really worth the effort.

Probably better off just introducing new purpose built EV buses gradually and use them to phase out the oldest, most polluting buses in the fleet.

I meant to just replace the current smoke causing diesel for a clean non-polluting latest diesel engine.

It would only cost 10% of the cost of a new bus, I would guess.

bk · 25-06-2018 8:26pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

I meant to just replace the current smoke causing diesel for a clean non-polluting latest diesel engine.

It would only cost 10% of the cost of a new bus, I would guess.

Ah.. right, the SG class, which are Euro 6, already make up close to half the fleet. I think around 450 of them delivered by year end. Already around 420.

Then you have the very close GT class, Euro 5, pretty good too, there are 160 of those.

So about 600 buses with new, clean engines.

Then there are about 220 Euro 4 mid-life Euro 4 engined buses.

There are around 76 AV class with their Euro 2 engine, but these are a special case, being the only "high capacity" tri-axles buses left in the fleet.

There are about 150 AX class, Euro 2, but there are quickly been replaced by the new SG's, probably all gone in the next year. These would be the worst offenders and the ones needing gone the soonest.

Leaving aside the issues with the AV's, once the AX are gone you have a pretty clean fleet. I'm not sure the Euro 4 would be worth replacing outside normal retirement.

BTW important to remember that the oldest buses only come out at peak times, if at all. Some sit in depots in case of emergency.

Thing is, reaching Euro 6 levels isn't just related to engine. It is the entire exhaust system, but also the overall weight of the bus. The newer GT and specially SG class buses are specially made out of lighter materials all round to hit the Euro 6 levels.

I'd say you'd have to stick a hybrid, Diesel battery engine and battery in there with regenerative braking in order to meet Euro 6 engines and that certainly wouldn't be cheap or easy. Probably cost more then the bus is now worth!

Anyway, at the current rate their are replacing the buses (more then 100 per year), you would hit an all Euro 5/6 fleet in just 4 years anyway.

Stephen15 · 25-06-2018 9:00pm

bk wrote: »

BTW EV buses are already very much here. China is now building 9,000 EV buses every 6 weeks! That is the entire London Bus fleet every 6 weeks!

Only issue is they are all single deckers. Making really good single decker buses with plenty of range is actually relatively easy. What is hard is making double decker EV's. It doesn't really seem to have been cracked yet and that is obviously an issue for UK/Ireland.

Though Cork would love to get some of those single decker EV's

Perhaps they could buy bendy bus EVs for the busy and routes and normal single decker EV for less busy routes. Single decker EVs could be more economical than diesel double deckers. Double deckers are quite inefficient a three door single decker could carry more passengers with plenty of standing room could carry as many as a double decker and a bendy bus could carry up to twice as much.

bk · 25-06-2018 9:08pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

Perhaps they could buy bendy bus EVs for the busy and routes and normal single decker EV for less busy routes. Single decker EVs could be more economical than diesel double deckers. Double deckers are quite inefficient a three door single decker could carry more passengers with plenty of standing room could carry as many as a double decker and a bendy bus could carry up to twice as much.

I agree, a well implemented bendy bus or BRT as was proposed with Swiftway would have been great and allow for full EV.

However it seems with BusConnects, BRT seems to be off the agenda for now.

Though Go Ahead are getting about 40 single deckers for the quieter routes, so those could be EV. Though the ones being built at the moment aren't EV.

Stephen15 · 25-06-2018 9:15pm

bk wrote: »

Ah.. right, the SG class, which are Euro 6, already make up close to half the fleet. I think around 450 of them delivered by year end. Already around 420.

Then you have the very close GT class, Euro 5, pretty good too, there are 160 of those.

So about 600 buses with new, clean engines.

Then there are about 220 Euro 4 mid-life Euro 4 engined buses.

There are around 76 AV class with their Euro 2 engine, but these are a special case, being the only "high capacity" tri-axles buses left in the fleet.

There are about 150 AX class, Euro 2, but there are quickly been replaced by the new SG's, probably all gone in the next year. These would be the worst offenders and the ones needing gone the soonest.

Leaving aside the issues with the AV's, once the AX are gone you have a pretty clean fleet. I'm not sure the Euro 4 would be worth replacing outside normal retirement.

BTW important to remember that the oldest buses only come out at peak times, if at all. Some sit in depots in case of emergency.

Thing is, reaching Euro 6 levels isn't just related to engine. It is the entire exhaust system, but also the overall weight of the bus. The newer GT and specially SG class buses are specially made out of lighter materials all round to hit the Euro 6 levels.

I'd say you'd have to stick a hybrid, Diesel battery engine and battery in there with regenerative braking in order to meet Euro 6 engines and that certainly wouldn't be cheap or easy. Probably cost more then the bus is now worth!

Anyway, at the current rate their are replacing the buses (more then 100 per year), you would hit an all Euro 5/6 fleet in just 4 years anyway.

Wait how come the AXs are worse than the AVs as the AXs entered service in 2006 and the AVs all entered service before 2006.

bk · 25-06-2018 10:01pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

Wait how come the AXs are worse than the AVs as the AXs entered service in 2006 and the AVs all entered service before 2006.

Oh god, brain fart, you are right.

It is the VT's I was thinking of as a special case, them being tri-axles! Though they have Euro 4 engines.

The AV's are the oldest bus and you are right they are the ones currently being retired. Less then 50 left outside of training school, tours, etc. Probably all gone in a years time.

Next up would be the AX's after the AV's.

So 2, max 3 years, everything but Euro 4/5/6 will be gone anyway. 5 Years and all the Euro 4's gone too.

So while I messed up my classes, sorry, the overall point stands. Not much point converting buses when most of the worst will be gone in the next 2/3 years anyway.

Stephen15 · 25-06-2018 10:33pm

bk wrote: »

Oh god, brain fart, you are right.

It is the VT's I was thinking of as a special case, them being tri-axles! Though they have Euro 4 engines.

The AV's are the oldest bus and you are right they are the ones currently being retired. Less then 50 left outside of training school, tours, etc. Probably all gone in a years time.

Interestingly but not surprising the NTA recently stated that it does plan to buy any additional tri axles. I assume that means that the VT won't be replaced by more tri axles and will be replaced by regular class of double deckers either SGs or a newer model which may introduced between now and then.

Also hybrid buses will go on trial at some point this year before an order is made next year.

http://dublinbuses.com

bk · 25-06-2018 11:39pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

Interestingly but not surprising the NTA recently stated that it does plan to buy any additional tri axles. I assume that means that the VT won't be replaced by more tri axles and will be replaced by regular class of double deckers either SGs or a newer model which may introduced between now and then.

Also hybrid buses will go on trial at some point this year before an order is made next year.

http://dublinbuses.com

Yes, I read that previously, but I'm not sure if it actually means they will replace the VT's with regular SG's. The above says they wont buy additional tri-axles for Dublin, it doesn't say they won't replace them eventually.

Either way the AV's will go first, followed by all the AX's, so it is likely 2 more like 3 years before needing to replace the VT's actually comes up.

I'd like to see them get those fancy new 2 stairs, 2/3 door tr-axles they are trailing in Singapore. Interesting since they are left hand drive.

Really interesting video on this page on how the flow is directed with arrows, signs and flappy doors through the bus. In the front door, up the front stairs, down the rear stairs and out the rear dedicated door, we could badly do that here:

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/three-door-double-decker-bus-hits-the-roads-in-trial

Or perhaps the thinking is to replace the VT's with BRT. I wouldn't necessarily go with them going all SG.

The NTA seem to be willing to try new things. Double Deckers in Cork (thank god), the return of single deckers on quiet routes in Dublin, etc.

And yes, I would expect most of the new low emission buses to be just hybrid Diesels now common throughout London, with the odd EV test bus thrown in.

Sam Russell · 26-06-2018 9:20am

Why do we and the UK go with double deckers when everyone else goes with single deckers?

In Nice, they have these little single deckers with about 6 seats (well more than that) and standing for 60 passengers (that is about the number on the little plaque) and they buzz around the place. Fare is minimal (€1.5 for 90 min) and buses are frequent.

Why can't we do that? Cheap fares, cheap frequent buses, and full of paying customers.

If EVs have to be single deckers, maybe we should get with the program.

bk · 26-06-2018 9:41am

Yes, it is a mixture of tradition and operational issues.

The way that we operate buses here just isn't suited to that sort of speedy frequent service. You know single door, tip your hat to the driver, wait all day for the Leap card to work, bus stops every 100m and buses doing magically mystery tours of every estate in Dublin, simply doesn't lean itself to this sort of operation.

To make single deckers work, you really need 3 doors. All doors open at all stops, quickly entry/exit through any door, zero interaction with the driver for ticketing.

If you think about it, China is 1.4billion people, absolutely massive cities and they get by very well with only single decker buses, when operated in the correct manner. *

* Yes Hong Kong is an exception with lots of Double Deckers. But it shows a lot of that is down from tradition. Hong Kong being a former British colony and following the British bus model.

cgcsb · 26-06-2018 9:51am

bk wrote: »

Very interesting. That is a Wrigthbus StreetAir. I think the one pictured is a full EV model with a 300kWh battery and a range of 150 to 180 miles.

Wrightbus also have an hydrogen fuel cell double decker version of this bus.

For those who don't know Wrightbus have made almost all of Dublin Buses buses over the last few years in their factory up north, so these would be obvious replacements for the current buses.

Though I'm surprised if they jump straight to these. I would have thought hybrids would be a stepping stone, but I'd certainly not complain if they made the jump straight to these.

Of course this is just a photo op, so without seeing a contract, I won't get too excited.

Electric only for Dublin Bus would be great, hybrids could do the longer running routes. It'd remove any case against using Parliament street for bus routes.

Sam Russell · 26-06-2018 9:58am

cgcsb wrote: »

Electric only for Dublin Bus would be great, hybrids could do the longer running routes. It'd remove any case against using Parliament street for bus routes.

I think if the marketed them as 'soft' or 'rubber wheeled' trams, then they would be hailed as a magical solution - particularly by one elderly economist.

LXFlyer · 26-06-2018 10:27am

bk wrote: »

Yes, it is a mixture of tradition and operational issues.

The way that we operate buses here just isn't suited to that sort of speedy frequent service. You know single door, tip your hat to the driver, wait all day for the Leap card to work, bus stops every 100m and buses doing magically mystery tours of every estate in Dublin, simply doesn't lean itself to this sort of operation.

To make single deckers work, you really need 3 doors. All doors open at all stops, quickly entry/exit through any door, zero interaction with the driver for ticketing.

If you think about it, China is 1.4billion people, absolutely massive cities and they get by very well with only single decker buses, when operated in the correct manner. *

* Yes Hong Kong is an exception with lots of Double Deckers. But it shows a lot of that is down from tradition. Hong Kong being a former British colony and following the British bus model.

I think that you’re getting a bit carried away with that. This chestnut keeps coming up here. The degree to which this happens is greatly reduced since Network Direct - yes we all know about the 16 in Beaumont (and I don’t agree with that route), but it’s true to say that every corridor has a bus route that takes a direct routing along it.

Buses still should and do serve estates at the outer ends but mid-route detours are the exception to the rule.

bk · 26-06-2018 10:43am

Stephen15 wrote: »

Interestingly but not surprising the NTA recently stated that it does plan to buy any additional tri axles. I assume that means that the VT won't be replaced by more tri axles and will be replaced by regular class of double deckers either SGs or a newer model which may introduced between now and then.

BTW One other point about the VT's that I forgot. Part of the problem with replacing them, is up until this year, you would have to replace them with basically the exact same bus, just younger!

Sure you would add the rear door, but otherwise they would have been the same B9TL chassis with the same Euro 4 engine! No Euro 6 engined tri-axle existed in the left hand drive market.

So it wouldn't really make much sense to replace them.

Now fortunately Volvo just introduced this year, the B8L, their Euro 6 engined tri-axle to replace the old B9TL. However so far they have only built a few prototypes for the Singapore market. So I'd say it is understandable that the NTA might want to hold off a few years on buying such a new, untested bus until it is in big use with another operator.

As an interesting aside. Go Ahead in Singapore are currently trialling single decker full EV buses from BYD. That is good news as they could help to bring their experience with them to Dublin.

loyatemu · 26-06-2018 11:11am

you would hope BusConnects will also see some rationalisation of the bus stops - i.e. on the roads where the bus corridors are being built, put in one proper bus stop with a long platform (so a couple of buses can pull in); PIS screens, ticket machine, shelter, bike racks and then simultaneously decommission any other stops on that street. The plethora of stops causes delays because even if the bus you're on doesn't stop at all of them, if the bus ahead of you does then you get delayed too - this is the opportunity to fix that (on the main corridors at least).

roadmaster · 26-06-2018 11:56am

If the government want the public to go electric they should lead by example and go all in with electric public transport options. Set a date where all urban buses are completely electric and speed up the electrification of the rail network . It may cost a lot money up front but they will safe money in the long run.

cgcsb · 26-06-2018 11:59am

I wonder what the plan is with the proposed orbital bus corridors. Good luck removing these trees:

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3530575,-6.296713,3a,75y,231.79h,93.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sK_6Bn9dM-ezQQ9Q-AJa-nA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Dardania · 26-06-2018 12:08pm

roadmaster wrote: »

If the government want the public to go electric they should lead by example and go all in with electric public transport options. Set a date where all urban buses are completely electric and speed up the electrification of the rail network . It may cost a lot money up front but they will safe money in the long run.

Could also be a good way to put these semi state companies on a more sustainable footing for a few years, by throwing capital at them that reduces their operational costs. And let them gradually increase staff remuneration without changing the headline figure given to them.

LeinsterDub · 26-06-2018 1:21pm

cgcsb wrote: »

I wonder what the plan is with the proposed orbital bus corridors. Good luck removing these trees:

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3530575,-6.296713,3a,75y,231.79h,93.2t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sK_6Bn9dM-ezQQ9Q-AJa-nA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

NCR is too close to the quay at that location to be an orbital.

LXFlyer · 26-06-2018 1:37pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

NCR is too close to the quay at that location to be an orbital.

Not according to the indicative orbital corridors shown by the NTA on page 13 of this document!

https://www.busconnects.ie/media/1225/busconnects-public-consultation-document-web-low-res.pdf

Like much of this plan I remain to be convinced about the practicality of the inner one!

LeinsterDub · 26-06-2018 2:48pm

LXFlyer wrote: »

Not according to the indicative orbital corridors shown by the NTA on page 13 of this document!

https://www.busconnects.ie/media/1225/busconnects-public-consultation-document-web-low-res.pdf

Like much of this plan I remain to be convinced about the practicality of the inner one!

Really, bizarre it's 7 minutes walk from the quays!

LXFlyer · 26-06-2018 3:13pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Really, bizarre it's 7 minutes walk from the quays!

It’s still on an orbital corridor per the NTA plans. Look at the map.

While it’s close to the city they plan on using it for buses skirting the edge of the city centre without going through it.

LeinsterDub · 26-06-2018 3:16pm

LXFlyer wrote: »

It’s still on an orbital corridor per the NTA plans. Look at the map.

I wasn't doubting you. I was just surprised the NTA made such a choice

LXFlyer · 26-06-2018 3:48pm

LeinsterDub wrote: »

I wasn't doubting you. I was just surprised the NTA made such a choice

Well the Phoenix Park is in the way!! ;-)

There’s not many other options for an inner orbital set of bus routes.

Of course that doesn’t mean that it will actually happen to the extent of a proper QBC - I’d seriously doubt it!

bk · 26-06-2018 4:28pm

Well large parts of that route is ideal for an orbital route. The entire length of Griffith Avenue has tons of space for a dedicated bus lanes with little effort on road changes. Though I'm not sure why they wouldn't continue it as far as Malahide Road, there is an excellent turn around and waiting place at the end of Griffith Avenue with the 123 terminates.

Obviously Phoenix Park is in the way, but nice that it will pass and integrate with Hueston Station. It would allow people from all along Malahide Road, Griffith Avenue, Finglas and surrounding areas to have a good quality link to Phoenix Park and Hueston Station, allowing those folks coming into Hueston on a train to bypass the city.

It is exactly the sort of not having all routes going right through O'Connell Street.

BTW This orbital route would pass close by the Dublin Industrial Estate which really would make a perfect location for the next SDZ, with great connectivity between both Luas and Rail stations passing right next to it, Metrolink not far and also possibly this orbital route.

Stephen15 · 26-06-2018 6:03pm

I know this may sound controversial but what's so bad about the idea of running buses through the Phoenix. You could ban cars from using the park at certain times and just have buses running through it. That would the mean that the park would be exclusive to buses and bikes making the park a more pleasant place surely. Rather have one bus going by every every 10 minutes than 20 cars going by if I was walking or cycling.

The only issue I see is you may be diverting buses away from more populated areas but residents from the North West Dublin would benefit from faster journey times on routes going through the park.

Qrt · 26-06-2018 6:36pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

I know this may sound controversial but what's so bad about the idea of running buses through the Phoenix. You could ban cars from using the park at certain times and just have buses running through it. That would the mean that the park would be exclusive to buses and bikes making the park a more pleasant place surely. Rather have one bus going by every every 10 minutes than 20 cars going by if I was walking or cycling.

The only issue I see is you may be diverting buses away from more populated areas but residents from the North West Dublin would benefit from faster journey times on routes going through the park.

I've always thought that there should be buses to Blanchardstown etc that use the Phoenix Park but only on the condition that cars are removed from Chesterfield Avenue (again). I'd like to see them as electric only too, though maybe it'd be seen as a security risk given the proximity of the Áras and other important diplomatic buildings.

Stephen15 · 26-06-2018 6:50pm

Qrt wrote: »

I've always thought that there should be buses to Blanchardstown etc that use the Phoenix Park but only on the condition that cars are removed from Chesterfield Avenue (again). I'd like to see them as electric only too, though maybe it'd be seen as a security risk given the proximity of the Áras and other important diplomatic buildings.

I wouldn't see it as being a security risk sure if it was why would they let cars in.

markpb · 26-06-2018 8:29pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

I know this may sound controversial but what's so bad about the idea of running buses through the Phoenix.

The only people who consider it controversial are the OPW who, despite being a government agency, see fit to forbid another government agency from operating buses through it.

tom1ie · 26-06-2018 9:54pm

markpb wrote: »

The only people who consider it controversial are the OPW who, despite being a government agency, see fit to forbid another government agency from operating buses through it.

Is there proof of this? Have db tried to route buses through here in the past and been blocked?

fly_agaric · 26-06-2018 10:02pm

Yes, the city council should run the park, OPW can manage the Aras, Farmleigh.
Have never been a fan of some of the things they do with it...regularly closing bits off for weekend fun runs organised by groups based at the other end of the country, hosting pricy private events like Bloom, Ed Sheeran concerts etc...
Suppose its all a good little cash cow for the state (rather than the city) though.

BonnieSituation · 26-06-2018 10:13pm

fly_agaric wrote: »

Yes, the city council should run the park, OPW can manage the Aras, Farmleigh.
Have never been a fan of some of the things they do with it...regularly closing bits off for weekend fun runs organised by groups based at the other end of the country, hosting pricy private events like Bloom, Ed Sheeran concerts etc...
Suppose its all a good little cash cow for the state (rather than the city) though.

That's just nonsense.

And you think that everything happens in the Park in some sort of bubble whereby the locals don't enjoy it?

Nice little earner for the State rather than the city? What is thatmeant to mean at all? And why would you think DCC would do a better job at "managing" the Park?

Are other people in the State not allowed use it?

Why so against teh "closures" at the weekend? Does it interfere with your race through it?

---

Running passenger service buses (tours already use it) through the park is a no go and tbh very stupid.

For starters as soon as you get out of the park (NS) you hit Castleknock and then what? Have huge queues of buses waiting to get through teh one-way gate at the top of Cherstefield Avenue.

I'm sure the people of Blanchardstown would prefer to continue to use their QBC up the Navan Road. Maybe fixing bottlenecks like Manor St and Prussia St shoudl be on the menu first?

We're lucky to have the Park and to turn it into a rat run commuter route will undermine it. They are currently making it harder and harder to use it for cars as it is. And that will continue apace.

By the time the likes of the 37 would wait to get through the gate they would be onto the Navan Road at the Halfway House.

They would be better served fixing up the Blackhorse Avenue priority and the road itself which is a disgrace and allowing the 37 travel the full length of it to Aughrim St rather than that mental diversion via the Navan Road and then Skreen Road. That should come first before the amount of work that would have to be done to allow buses to use the Phoenix Park as a commuter channel.

dublinman1990 · 26-06-2018 11:20pm

I'm having a look with the Wright Streetair bus with Varadkar in front of it. It has a TFI & Project Ireland 2040 logo printed on the side.

Would this bus be heading for a hybrid evaluation with Dublin Bus soon or could it be going to Bus Eireann?

With the upcoming hybrid bus trial with Dublin Bus; does it not have to be all double deck vehicles as it can be mixed with single decks? Right?

BonnieSituation · 26-06-2018 11:32pm

The branding is over the side number "blind" so I would only surmise that that is there for the photo op.

Stephen15 · 26-06-2018 11:41pm

Still using the old eclipse front on the single deckers which all the way back to 1999 might familiar to some from the old the DB bendybuses and the BE VWL class.

I thought they would go for the new look for a hybrid bus or a hybrid Streetlite rather than an old design.

https://imgur.com/gallery/uCxAvi2

Kevtherev1 · 26-06-2018 11:57pm

dublinman1990 wrote: »

I'm having a look with the Wright Streetair bus with Varadkar in front of it. It has a TFI & Project Ireland 2040 logo printed on the side.

Would this bus be heading for a hybrid evaluation with Dublin Bus soon or could it be going to Bus Eireann?

With the upcoming hybrid bus trial with Dublin Bus; does it not have to be all double deck vehicles as it can be mixed with single decks? Right?

Leo varadkar is clearly trying to be the new Bertie Ahern with his constant need for photo ops and leftist virtue signaling. And we know how that worked out. Leo is getting drunk on the social justice coolade. Someone should tell all these politicians, constant social justice, leftist policies alienate more voters then they attract.

Varadkar has copied and pasted the spin tactics of Bertie and Tony Blair. He should cut out all this Bull**** as it has damaged and is eroding all his new leader political capital.

He is making FG to be all style and no substance and i wont vote for that crap. Back to topic bus connects is a wonderful plan and i hope it is implemented. I use the buses sometimes. The service has improved in the last decade with the investment Dublin Bus has received. It is a good service if a bit too expensive relative to public transport costs in other countries

Qrt · 27-06-2018 1:01am

leftist policies

I really don't think he can be described as "leftist" in any way, shape or form.

He is making FG to be all style and no substance and i wont vote for that crap

This I can agree on. Fine Gael don't seem to do...much at all? Donohue must be one of the most reclusive finance ministers we've ever had.

marno21 · 27-06-2018 1:30am

Qrt wrote: »

I really don't think he can be described as "leftist" in any way, shape or form.

This I can agree on. Fine Gael don't seem to do...much at all? Donohue must be one of the most reclusive finance ministers we've ever had.

I agree with this policy. Far too much time wasted in recent years throwing fivers at this and fivers at that. The economy is doing well enough without this kind of "intervention" and it'd be better just leaving well alone.

The increase in the capital envelope starting from next financial year is very much welcomed however and, hopefully it'll come to fruition, it'll be nice to see some money being spent on badly needed projects.

What has evolved into the now NTA are semi-independently driving along several much needed projects (Metro North/South, DART expansions, BusConnects) and I hope these are implemented free from the usual party political bull**** of certain parties needing to put their own stamp on them. It's time for the country to start acting maturely and dragging itself into the 21st century instead of being an archaic dysfunctional corporate tax haven.

bk · 27-06-2018 9:20am

dublinman1990 wrote: »

With the upcoming hybrid bus trial with Dublin Bus; does it not have to be all double deck vehicles as it can be mixed with single decks? Right?

Well Go Ahead are getting 40 or so single decker Streetlites for some of their quieter routes, so a Streetair or two to trial EV single deckers seems reasonable. Though this could be separate to the rumoured DB hybrid trial.

marno21 wrote: »

I agree with this policy. Far too much time wasted in recent years throwing fivers at this and fivers at that. The economy is doing well enough without this kind of "intervention" and it'd be better just leaving well alone.

Yes, the best thing you can do when times are good is do nothing at all!

And that is hard to do politically, because you have every union in the country screaming for pay increases and big spending and tax cuts. All a recipe for overheating the economy and a nice big bubble to be burst horribly.

I'd hope we had learned our lesson from the Celtic Tiger years and a bit of financial restraint would be nice for a change.

And no, I'm not talking about infrastructure, that is a bit different since we have such a big infrastructural deficit and much catching up to do in that area.

LeinsterDub · 27-06-2018 9:46am

bk wrote: »

Well Go Ahead are getting 40 or so single decker Streetlites for some of their quieter routes, so a Streetair or two to trial EV single deckers seems reasonable. Though this could be separate to the rumoured DB hybrid trial.

BK you seem knowledgeable in the this area. Why do we need to trial this technology? It's not like are on the burning edge here . We are following in the wake of dozens if not hundreds of other cities.

Bray Head · 27-06-2018 9:50am

marno21 wrote: »

The increase in the capital envelope starting from next financial year is very much welcomed however and, hopefully it'll come to fruition, it'll be nice to see some money being spent on badly needed projects.

I don't think people realise how large this is.

Voted capital expenditure is set to rise from €4,585m in 2017 to €7,550m in 2020. That's an increase of €3bn or 65% in the space of just three years. The increase alone is about 1.5% of economic activity.

It is coming from a low base but the increase is going to be very, very large.

bk · 27-06-2018 11:39am

LeinsterDub wrote: »

BK you seem knowledgeable in the this area. Why do we need to trial this technology? It's not like are on the burning edge here . We are following in the wake of dozens if not hundreds of other cities.

You mean trial Hybrid buses? I agree completely and was thinking the same. Thousands of them in use every day in London for years now, we should have started getting those a few years ago. The issue was one of money I think.

In fairness though, you would want to do a small trial, just to allow your mechanics to become familiar with the different tech and perhaps allow drivers to get used to different driving characteristics.

Hopefully it will be a very quick trial and then they will order all new buses as at least hybrids.

The full EV buses is a bit different, they are bleeding edge tech and still relatively unproven, at least in Europe.

The above StreetAirs, only 6 have been built so far AFAIK and they have been on trial at Lothian Bus in the UK, but rumour has it that the trial didn't go well and they are now ordering more standard Euro 6 buses.

Here is at interesting article about all the different EV and Hydrogen buses being trialled in London:

http://beno.org.uk/bus/hybrid/electric.html

Looks like BYD are the ones who are knocking it out of the park. Not surprising, in China they have already built 35,000 full EV buses and are building 15,000 new ones per year! They are a serious large scale producer and actually build the batteries too. All the rest are just small manufacturers producing the odd prototype with bought in batteries. Basically BYD are the Tesla of the bus market.

cgcsb · 27-06-2018 11:56am

LeinsterDub wrote: »

NCR is too close to the quay at that location to be an orbital.

It's part of one of the orbital routes

cgcsb · 27-06-2018 11:59am

bk wrote: »

Well large parts of that route is ideal for an orbital route. The entire length of Griffith Avenue has tons of space for a dedicated bus lanes with little effort on road changes. Though I'm not sure why they wouldn't continue it as far as Malahide Road, there is an excellent turn around and waiting place at the end of Griffith Avenue with the 123 terminates.

Obviously Phoenix Park is in the way, but nice that it will pass and integrate with Hueston Station. It would allow people from all along Malahide Road, Griffith Avenue, Finglas and surrounding areas to have a good quality link to Phoenix Park and Hueston Station, allowing those folks coming into Hueston on a train to bypass the city.

It is exactly the sort of not having all routes going right through O'Connell Street.

BTW This orbital route would pass close by the Dublin Industrial Estate which really would make a perfect location for the next SDZ, with great connectivity between both Luas and Rail stations passing right next to it, Metrolink not far and also possibly this orbital route.

As an orbital route it certainly would be handy connecting cabra to the airport which is currently a long and heart breaking trial of one's nerves, via parnell square.

cgcsb · 27-06-2018 12:03pm

Kevtherev1 wrote: »

Leo varadkar is clearly trying to be the new Bertie Ahern with his constant need for photo ops and leftist virtue signaling. And we know how that worked out. Leo is getting drunk on the social justice coolade. Someone should tell all these politicians, constant social justice, leftist policies alienate more voters then they attract.

Varadkar has copied and pasted the spin tactics of Bertie and Tony Blair. He should cut out all this Bull**** as it has damaged and is eroding all his new leader political capital.

He is making FG to be all style and no substance and i wont vote for that crap. Back to topic bus connects is a wonderful plan and i hope it is implemented. I use the buses sometimes. The service has improved in the last decade with the investment Dublin Bus has received. It is a good service if a bit too expensive relative to public transport costs in other countries

A political/personal rant with zero relevance to the thread.

Kevtherev1 · 27-06-2018 12:10pm

cgcsb wrote: »

A political/personal rant with zero relevance to the thread.

Read my post again. You will see i stated good progress in improving DB service has been made in past decade. And that i think Bus Connects is a good plan. Those points are relevant to this thread.

Get back in your box :rolleyes:

Dublin - BusConnects

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