John Leslie Trial - Accused of touching woman's bum in nightclub

silverharp · 23-06-2018 10:50AM

Where I work we would for sure watch our conversations more if there are female colleagues around, and always make sure there are open doors etc. By exception you can figure out who to trust more but thems the times

silverharp · 23-06-2018 10:51AM

Where I work we would for sure watch our conversations more if there are female colleagues around, and always make sure there are open doors etc. By exception you can figure out who to trust more but thems the times

silverharp · 23-06-2018 10:53AM

Where I work we would for sure watch our conversations more if there are female colleagues around, and always make sure there are open doors etc. By exception you can figure out who to trust more but thems the times

silverharp · 23-06-2018 10:53AM

Where I work we would for sure watch our conversations more if there are female colleagues around, and always make sure there are open doors etc. By exception you can figure out who to trust more but thems the times

Glass fused light · 23-06-2018 11:58AM

Double post

Hagar7 · 25-06-2018 01:21PM

silverharp wrote: »

Where I work we would for sure watch our conversations more if there are female colleagues around, and always make sure there are open doors etc. By exception you can figure out who to trust more but thems the times

When it comes down to talking about sex then women are way worse than men,so my wife says.

Outlaw Pete · 25-06-2018 01:50PM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I would, and I have done, numerous times on this site.

Well, you were as wrong then as you are now, so, as of course women aren't being paranoid by being vigilant around strange men at night.

Anyway, just seen the clip from outside the court and you'd have to feel sorry for John's old man, been a long 15 years for him I bet, with people no doubt whispering about your son and making who knows what kind of comments to him during that time, when he's been going about his life. This nonsense third verdict isn't helpful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXFqgfaw0dc

Hopefully that's an end to it now and we finally get the fcuker on CBB once and for all. Two different serieses he was all set to be on but an allegation came up. Don't think he'll ever be given a presenting job on mainstream TV again but would be nice to see him back on our screens presenting at some level someday. Always seemed like a likable enough chap.

razorblunt · 25-06-2018 02:31PM

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Hopefully that's an end to it now and we finally get the fcuker on CBB once and for all. Two different serieses he was all set to be on but an allegation came up. Don't think he'll ever be given a presenting job on mainstream TV again but would be nice to see him back on our screens presenting at some level someday. Always seemed like a likable enough chap.

He's not. He's his own worst enemy, always hanging out in bars trying to look flash but failing.
The places in Edinburgh he frequents says it all about him, the Coppers of the Burgh.

BattleCorp · 25-06-2018 02:36PM

razorblunt wrote: »

He's not. He's his own worst enemy, always hanging out in bars trying to look flash but failing.
The places in Edinburgh he frequents says it all about him, the Coppers of the Burgh.

I'd say no TV organisation would touch him with a barge pole ( ahem......with consent of course

) at this stage.

razorblunt · 25-06-2018 02:39PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

I'd say no TV organisation would touch him with a barge pole ( ahem......with consent of course ) at this stage.

His brother is a radio presenter on one of the local stations, I don't think he even managed to get him a foot in the door there.

Outlaw Pete · 25-06-2018 02:39PM

razorblunt wrote: »

He's not. He's his own worst enemy, always hanging out in bars trying to look flash but failing.
The places in Edinburgh he frequents says it all about him, the Coppers of the Burgh.

Surely if he was trying to look flash he'd be hanging out in the Lillie's of the Burgh.

razorblunt · 25-06-2018 02:41PM

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Surely if he was trying to look flash he'd be hanging out in the Lillie's of the Burgh.

That's exactly my point. He can't get near those high end places.

One eyed Jack · 25-06-2018 02:46PM

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Well, you were as wrong then as you are now, so, as of course women aren't being paranoid by being vigilant around strange men at night.

Hold on Pete, how was I wrong? You said you highly doubt that I'd say the same about women, and I pointed out to you that I would, and have done, even as recently as just a few days ago -

One eyed Jack wrote: »

You ask me why shouldn't women be afraid of something that contrary to your opinion is unlikely ever to happen to them, and I'll tell you that's exactly why they shouldn't be afraid of something that is unlikely ever to happen to them. I'm absolutely not trying to shut you up at all, I'm simply pointing out to you that when you're more attuned to something, you can tend to think it's more likely to happen to you than it is in reality. The Chicken Licken effect I call it. Others more formally call it Moral panic:

Quote:
A moral panic is a feeling of fear spread among a large number of people that some evil threatens the well-being of society. A Dictionary of Sociology defines a moral panic as "the process of arousing social concern over an issue – usually the work of moral entrepreneurs and the mass media".

If you pick up a newspaper and you're drawn to headlines which catch your attention, to the extent that you ignore the rest of the newspaper, then all you're doing is reinforcing your already held belief that an issue is more prevalent in society than it actually is in reality. Unsatisfied with the fact that most women aren't living in fear of their lives daily, you have to try and generate something for them to be fearful of. It doesn't work, and the reason it doesn't work is because the potential likelihood of it ever happening is so unlikely as to be hardly worth considering.

That's why when it does happen to a woman, their reaction is often one of confusion and shock. Because they didn't expect it would ever happen to them, and why would they, when it's actually as rare in Irish society as it is.

Being vigilant around people of either gender is first of all paranoid, and secondly it's completely irrational and unjustifiable as the vast majority of people of either gender simply aren't out to cause harm, to anyone.

Outlaw Pete · 25-06-2018 03:01PM

razorblunt wrote: »

That's exactly my point. He can't get near those high end places.

How's does that "say it all about him" though. These places most likely don't want him there.

razorblunt wrote: »

His brother is a radio presenter on one of the local stations, I don't think he even managed to get him a foot in the door there.

He was back working on radio for few years and was doing quite well until the end of 2015 when another accusation was made (first since 2008) and Radio Forth suspended him.

There's been other little radio jobs I've seen him do over the years also like the following in 2014.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYSdzrx5kb0

Here's some comments from him after the investigation into the 2015 allegations were dropped:

Leslie lost his job as a DJ on the Bauer Media radio network following the latest allegation.

The former presenter said the experience had “cast a shadow” over his life and likely ended his broadcasting future.

He said: “I’m almost kissing goodbye to my career as a TV or radio presenter. I don’t think that door is open to me anymore.

“A lot of damage has been done even though I’m 100 per cent innocent.

“If you work in the media and you bring that to the doorstep then there’s got to be a price to pay.”

Now Leslie wants to spearhead the fight to keep those accused of sexual crimes anonymous before they’re charged.

He said: “I’ve found myself doing this, more by accident than design. But if this is what I’m here to do, I’m all for it.

“A sexual assault is a horrible thing to be accused of. It affects your friends, family, everything around you.

“If I have to be a flagbearer for this then I’ll do it.

“I’m slightly worried it won’t pay the bills, but I’ll certainly do what I can.

“I fully believe if someone has been attacked they have to be believed and have anonymity.

“But I think that basic principle has to be afforded to the accused.

“Your life is destroyed before you’re charged.

“If and when you’re charged, there’s more veracity to the complaint and that’s when your name should be released.”

Leslie said he’d been in touch with his MSP Jim Eadie and hoped to meet him to discuss his campaign.

He said: “I want to see what consideration the Scottish Government might give to the matter.

“And if doesn’t work I’ll go down to the House of Parliament.

“There’s not many people in the public eye willing to put their voice to this.”

In 2002 TV star Ulrika Jonsson claimed in her autobiography she had been raped by an ‘acquaintance’ and Leslie’s name was linked to this by presenter Matthew Wright live on his show.

In 2003, Leslie was accused then cleared of indecently assaulting a 23-year-old actress in 1997.

professore · 25-06-2018 03:02PM

Conservatory wrote: »

He went for it she said no chance bucko. It’s not like he ran out from under a park bench and pulled at her hoop. He misread a few signals.

Every teenage boy in the country has tried to put his hands down a girls trousers only for her to grab the hand and put it somewhere less fun. Should we lock them all up?

Speak for yourself.

professore · 25-06-2018 03:08PM

kylith wrote: »

Here's an idea: check if it's ok before putting your hand down someone's underwear.

Here's another idea - maybe don't invite a complete stranger to dance with you when dressed in a slutty outfit a couple of days before getting married ...

She is not even sure he touched her ass FFS ... maybe it was one of her friends???? The DNA even seems to confirm this. Total publicity stunt.

Nothing to gain??? Maybe save your marriage???

She said she thought he was being "protective" and suggested they dance together.

razorblunt · 25-06-2018 04:22PM

Tay FM? If you cough you'd lose the signal.

JupiterKid · 25-06-2018 04:23PM

From his time presenting Blue Peter in the early 90s I always thought he was gay...

upandcumming · 25-06-2018 06:14PM

JupiterKid wrote: »

From his time presenting Blue Peter in the early 90s I always thought he was gay...

I wonder if that was mentioned in court?! CRUCIFY HIM, CRUCIFY HIM! :pac:

kylith · 25-06-2018 09:03PM

professore wrote: »

Here's another idea - maybe don't invite a complete stranger to dance with you when dressed in a slutty outfit a couple of days before getting married ...

She is not even sure he touched her ass FFS ... maybe it was one of her friends???? The DNA even seems to confirm this. Total publicity stunt.

Nothing to gain??? Maybe save your marriage???

So it's her fault because of what she was wearing? And dancing is an invitation to sexual assault now?

Seriously? How is 'don't grope people' somehow a statement worthy of such outrage?

25-06-2018 11:13PM

The mad part is that this got to court with contradictory evidence and bits of lies, so hypothetically, verbal consent to hold her bum is pointless. She can just say that consent was never given. Or she could say it was given drunk so the consent doesn't apply.

Basically this was a case of CCTV saving a man's life.

It said in the report that her marriage was affected by this. Good. I home the husband divorces her for making a shambles of their first year together.

eagle eye · 25-06-2018 11:20PM

kylith wrote:

So it's her fault because of what she was wearing? And dancing is an invitation to sexual assault now?

The man was acquitted.

kylith · 26-06-2018 11:49AM

eagle eye wrote: »

kylith wrote:

So it's her fault because of what she was wearing? And dancing is an invitation to sexual assault now?

The man was acquitted.

Not acquitted: the case was ‘not proven’.

And speaking generally, what of Prof’s statement? And what of my reply to it? If a woman consents to dance with a man, is it ok for him to grope her? If he thinks she’s dressed ‘slutty’?

ohnonotgmail · 26-06-2018 11:54AM

kylith wrote: »

Not acquitted: the case was ‘not proven’.

And speaking generally, what of Prof’s statement? And what of my reply to it? If a woman consents to dance with a man, is it ok for him to grope her? If he thinks she’s dressed ‘slutty’?

well she would be asking for it clearly according to some.

Sweetemotion · 26-06-2018 01:19PM

kylith wrote: »

Not acquitted: the case was ‘not proven’.

And speaking generally, what of Prof’s statement? And what of my reply to it? If a woman consents to dance with a man, is it ok for him to grope her? If he thinks she’s dressed ‘slutty’?

Off course not and the cctv proved that didn't happen.

Do you think it was fair for this case to go to court?

eagle eye · 26-06-2018 01:34PM

kylith wrote:

Not acquitted: the case was â€˜not provenâ€™.

That means he was acquitted.

kylith · 26-06-2018 02:07PM

Sweetemotion wrote: »

kylith wrote: »

Not acquitted: the case was ‘not proven’.

And speaking generally, what of Prof’s statement? And what of my reply to it? If a woman consents to dance with a man, is it ok for him to grope her? If he thinks she’s dressed ‘slutty’?

Off course not and the cctv proved that didn't happen.

Do you think it was fair for this case to go to court?

If she believed that she was assaulted then she had every right to make a complaint to the authorities. AFAIK the decision to go to court tests with the police, unless it is a civil case.

Do you think that a woman who believes she has been assaulted shouldn’t report it?

eagle eye wrote: »

kylith wrote:

Not acquitted: the case was â€˜not provenâ€™.

That means he was acquitted.

While you are right, I donmt think i’m 100% wrong either. ‘Not proven is an acquittal used when the judge or jury does not have enough evidence to convict but is not sufficiently convinced of the accused person's innocence to bring in a "not guilty" verdict.

Sweetemotion · 26-06-2018 07:27PM

kylith wrote: »

Do you think that a woman who believes she has been assaulted shouldn’t report it?

Off course she should report it but just because she is a woman shouldn't mean it should be automatically believed as we have found out from the evidence of an unbiased video.

One eyed Jack · 26-06-2018 08:04PM

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Off course she should report it but just because she is a woman shouldn't mean it should be automatically believed as we have found out from the evidence of an unbiased video.

We didn't find anything out from any video, unbiased or otherwise. The defence simply put it to the witness that the CCTV footage contradicted her version of events. The witness replied that's not how she sees it. Both are simply statements, that don't either prove or disprove anything either way. The defence could just as easily have said "I put it to you that the sky is red", and received the same reply. It's the job of the defence to present an alternative interpretation of the evidence in order to create reasonable doubt, and it should go without saying that would include witness testimony and indeed CCTV footage that none of us here have actually seen to be able to comment on.

Sweetemotion · 26-06-2018 08:31PM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

We didn't find anything out from any video, unbiased or otherwise. The defence simply put it to the witness that the CCTV footage contradicted her version of events. The witness replied that's not how she sees it. Both are simply statements, that don't either prove or disprove anything either way. The defence could just as easily have said "I put it to you that the sky is red", and received the same reply. It's the job of the defence to present an alternative interpretation of the evidence in order to create reasonable doubt, and it should go without saying that would include witness testimony and indeed CCTV footage that none of us here have actually seen to be able to comment on.

We didn't see the video but we do know it contradicted her version of events no matter "how she saw it" There is no better evidence for the defence than that.

He's innocent and now with this crap of not proven. That only provides ammunition for people like Kylith to still cast doubt of his innocence, he may as well have been found guilty.

John Leslie Trial - Accused of touching woman's bum in nightclub

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