Does anyone else get sick at the thought of working for the next 40 years?

WhiteMemento9 · 26-06-2018 05:09PM

seannash wrote: »

Your reasoning is all over the place. For starters you cannot ask an interviewee if they are married or single. Asking about their finacial standing would be incredibly insensitive.

But lets say I did find out that this person has a big mortgage and has been out of work for 3 months. Is it more compassionate to give him a job so that his money worries are gone or not give him the job because he wont enjoy the work??

Ah man, I can't get over what I am talking to you about and for that I am sorry. They are just actors in a bad play.

seannash · 26-06-2018 05:15PM

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

Ah man, I can't get over what I am talking to you about and for that I am sorry. They are just actors in a bad play.

No, I do understand what you are saying. I get it. Its a utopia what you describe which is an admirable goal but it simply doesn't reflect human beings and how they operate. Employers are not the cause of why people have debt or indeed why they need money but to fill jobs based on whether or not its the persons dream job in an industry that is known to not be fulfilling for a lot of people is impossible.

You are protecting one person at the expense of another person happiness. The HR person who is under pressure to fill the role and the teammates picking up the slack.

I think people should strive for their dream job but I would wager you wont get it without knowing what you don't like to do.

WhiteMemento9 · 26-06-2018 05:19PM

seannash wrote: »

No, I do understand what you are saying. I get it. Its a utopia what you describe which is an admirable goal but it simply doesn't reflect human beings and how they operate. Employers are not the cause of why people have debt or indeed why they need money but to fill jobs based on whether or not its the persons dream job in an industry that is known to not be fulfilling for a lot of people is impossible.

You are protecting one person at the expense of another person happiness. The HR person who is under pressure to fill the role and the teammates picking up the slack.

I think people should strive for their dream job but I would wager you wont get it without knowing what you don't like to do.

We are the cause of it though. This is the reality we have created as a way to live. Mindless job, sedating people or worse to carry on living a life that is not worth living. You can come at this at a place of blaming people for their lot in life or look around the world and realise it isn't being very kind to many people. People feel helpless to change things. It starts with people just showing compassion and caring but everyone is afraid. So they make sure that they are OK above all. Shout down the assholes and find a moral compass and try to least do the right thing. Why can't we try to build something where everyone is OK because most of the things that we told to chase are meaningless anyway. Lets make everyone safe instead.

seannash · 26-06-2018 05:23PM

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

We are the cause of it though. This is the reality we have created as a way to live. Mindless job, sedating people or worse to carry on living a life that is not worth living. You can come at this at a place of blaming people for their lot in life or look around the world and realise it isn't being very kind to many people. It starts people just showing much compassion and caring but everyone is afraid. So they make sure that they are OK above all. Why can't we try to build something where everyone is OK because most of the things that we told to chase are meaningless.

So answer my question
Should I employ the man to ease his money worries but its in a job he might hate.
I'm not disagreeing with what your describing but its an impossibility. I definitely try to be a decent human being at all times, work is no different.

kunst nugget · 26-06-2018 05:27PM

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

We are the cause of it though. This is the reality we have created as a way to live. Mindless job, sedating people or worse to carry on living a life that is not worth living. You can come at this at a place of blaming people for their lot in life or look around the world and realise it isn't being very kind to many people. People feel helpless to change things. It starts with people just showing compassion and caring but everyone is afraid. So they make sure that they are OK above all. Shout down the assholes and find a moral compass and try to least do the right thing. Why can't we try to build something where everyone is OK because most of the things that we told to chase are meaningless anyway. Lets make everyone safe instead.

I think you're watching a bit too much Mr. Robot there...

WhiteMemento9 · 26-06-2018 05:29PM

seannash wrote: »

So answer my question
Should I employ the man to ease his money worries but its in a job he might hate.
I'm not disagreeing with what your describing but its an impossibility. I definitely try to be a decent human being at all times, work is no different.

You have a moral compass use it. If you feel it is right then I can't judge that. I think it is wrong but those are my own morals. I couldn't do the job in the first place. You are doing through what you need to do in a broken system so I get that. It doesn't mean it is the way things should be. If more people said, no I don't want to live in a world that makes me do these things, we might have a chance. That is hard though because I get that everyone is just trying to survive and enjoy this life thing. It is making us worse people though. When people were conditioned in much worse periods of history to do the wrong thing, we look back and think now, what the hell where they at. They did it because that was the way thing were. People may feel helpless and go along with this world, it doesn't mean you can't see it is wrong.

hurler32 · 26-06-2018 05:33PM

In modern Ireland where so much employment is minimum wage etc the benefits of having a job aren’t as attractive ... if you dislike or hate your job you’d be as well off on the dole ....
If you plan on having a large family your definetly better off on the dole unless your going to be CEO of some company ,..ask any traveller !

nthclare · 26-06-2018 05:35PM

Plenty of single men nowadays couldn't afford to get married, because if it doesn't work out they're up sht creek....

So guy's love her forever, because she's worth it

Twenty Grand · 26-06-2018 05:44PM

hurler32 wrote: »

In modern Ireland where so much employment is minimum wage etc the benefits of having a job aren’t as attractive ... if you dislike or hate your job you’d be as well off on the dole ....
If you plan on having a large family your definetly better off on the dole unless your going to be CEO of some company ,..ask any traveller !

Bullsh*t and you know it.
I earn 50k a year, far from CEO wages and my house is far more comfortable than a caravan. To be honest, once I sorted out my AVCs, share purchases and other tax relief, I pay less tax that I did on lower wages.

hurler32 · 26-06-2018 06:04PM

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Bullsh*t and you know it.
I earn 50k a year, far from CEO wages and my house is far more comfortable than a caravan. To be honest, once I sorted out my AVCs, share purchases and other tax relief, I pay less tax that I did on lower wages.

If your single on 50k yes but if your and your spouse don’t work and you have 8 children there’s very little in it ....
PS less than 3 % of travellers live in caravans

WhiteMemento9 · 26-06-2018 07:45PM

witchgirl26 wrote: »

I've friends who would not be in as high paying a career as me. They seen me buy something recently that is for them, at the moment, out of reach. They are neither resentful or bitter about it as they know how much effort went into it. Would they like the same? Course, but they're not taking it out on me that it is in their immediate future. On the other hand a couple of acquaintances have made comments like "oh it's well for some isn't it". I can't help them with their attitude.

I didn't reply to this at the time as I needed to gather my thoughts a little. My lack of resentment towards people buying extravagant things comes from a place of really not caring. I have been in a place where I tried that and it didn't make me happy so why would I resent someone doing something that doesn't fulfil myself. It did feed my ego though and that is something I want to try and keep as small as possible these days. The thoughts of buying something like a nice car to make myself happy are utterly preposterous.

Joshua J · 26-06-2018 10:10PM

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

You have a moral compass use it. If you feel it is right then I can't judge that. I think it is wrong but those are my own morals. I couldn't do the job in the first place. You are doing through what you need to do in a broken system so I get that. It doesn't mean it is the way things should be. If more people said, no I don't want to live in a world that makes me do these things, we might have a chance. That is hard though because I get that everyone is just trying to survive and enjoy this life thing. It is making us worse people though. When people were conditioned in much worse periods of history to do the wrong thing, we look back and think now, what the hell where they at. They did it because that was the way thing were. People may feel helpless and go along with this world, it doesn't mean you can't see it is wrong.

I'm with you on this but tbh every day it seems further away. What you/we are asking people is to fundamentally change everything they know in the hope of more equal and fair society. But to even go down that road could be years/decades of uncertainty and upheaval. How do you get people to even contemplate that?. People with kids/responsibilities. The process would have to be so piecemeal that the forces who thrive in the status quo would block it at every turn. It would need a full reset, where we try and build a better world from the ground up. But getting to that point wouldn't involve a choice or vote. Unless there's a quantum shift in human conciousness/understanding around the corner that is.

WhiteMemento9 · 26-06-2018 11:16PM

Joshua J wrote: »

I'm with you on this but tbh every day it seems further away. What you/we are asking people is to fundamentally change everything they know in the hope of more equal and fair society. But to even go down that road could be years/decades of uncertainty and upheaval. How do you get people to even contemplate that?. People with kids/responsibilities. The process would have to be so piecemeal that the forces who thrive in the status quo would block it at every turn. It would need a full reset, where we try and build a better world from the ground up. But getting to that point wouldn't involve a choice or vote. Unless there's a quantum shift in human conciousness/understanding around the corner that is.

It is a massively complex question. For now though if we could just do something simple like just have a debate about changing to a four day week to give people a break. The media have started talking about stress in the workplace recently but with a focus on how to manage it rather than the causes. If we could give people some breathing room I think more and more people would question the system we have created.

That guy who sent his workers home early is a tiny thing but it made my heart sing. I guarantee it made him feel better and it made the people around him feel better. People don't seem to get the happiness that brings all round. Those people who derive whatever vacuous pleasure they get from huge amounts of money keep society churning it out for them because they don't even understand that real happiness can't be bought and you can find uncontrollable joy in life without it.

Diversity for Hire · 26-06-2018 11:36PM

Pussyhands wrote: »

Doing the same thing. I mean, getting up early in the morning, doing a full days work, giving away the best hours of the day. Coming back, not really being able to do anything major.

Weekends spent trying to rest as you're bollixed from the week.

20 days off a year.

Stuck at a desk all day, probably leading to health problems later on.

The hope of not doing it keeps me going but deep down the likliehood is I'll have to keep working.

So, what's the alternative? Refuse to work? Live on the dole? Work means money which means you can live your life and have a degree of freedom. The alternative is sitting around all day waiting until it becomes socially acceptable to tuck into your Dutch Gold 6 pack treat.

Ever meet a 30+ dole lifer? It's not pretty...

WhiteMemento9 · 26-06-2018 11:40PM

This thing as well of corporations asking people to work all the hour's godsends. Many people from talking to them seem to do it out of responsibility to the team in which they work and they feel like they are letting the team down and people are picking up the slack for them. Be open with each other and talk. Say listen the only person benefitting from this crap is the company. They don't care about you as a human being. They would cast you aside in the morning. Do what is right for your own life and explain to people why you are doing it and maybe they have the courage as well to say **** this crap. No job is worth the kind of stress I have seen people under.

Diversity for Hire · 26-06-2018 11:42PM

shakeitoff wrote: »

It's a joke tbh, one day there will be an uprising when people realise that life truly is short and wasting hours in a job is such bollox. 6 hours is the absolute maximum time you should be working for each day.

The problem with this 'find a job you enjoy' advice is that a of us don't have the IQ to get jobs we enjoy. I don't get replies for entry level sales jobs, so finding a job that I enjoy is a pipe dream.

I graduated from college and work the same job I did throughout colege where I can pick my own hours and wear what I want. The money is terrible and work unfulfilling but the environment is nice enough and my managers and work friends are nice to be around. I feel it has kept me young and I have time to do most stuff I want to. I couldn't think of anything worse than suiting up everyday to go into some toxic work environment with highly competitive people all trying to outdo one another.

9-5 is too long a day, then you have to get the gym in(Gym is a necessity, some weird people enjoy the gym but for me it's a means to an end) make your dinner and then go to bed early so you aren't a zombie the next day. Absolute bollox.

A quote from Charles Bukowski you may appreciate

“How in the hell could a man enjoy being awakened at 8:30 a.m. by an alarm clock, leap out of bed, dress, force-feed, ****, piss, brush teeth and hair, and fight traffic to get to a place where essentially you made lots of money for somebody else and were asked to be grateful for the opportunity to do so?”

Twenty Grand · 26-06-2018 11:45PM

Diversity for Hire wrote: »

A quote from Charles Bukowski you may appreciate

“How in the hell could a man enjoy being awakened at 8:30 a.m. by an alarm clock, leap out of bed, dress, force-feed, ****, piss, brush teeth and hair, and fight traffic to get to a place where essentially you made lots of money for somebody else and were asked to be grateful for the opportunity to do so?”

Then.. ya know.. don't do it?
Start your own company. Work for yourself. Set your own hours. Commute to the shed in your garden.
Youd think people are forced to work at gun point the way they go on...

realitykeeper · 26-06-2018 11:46PM

Pussyhands wrote: »

Doing the same thing. I mean, getting up early in the morning, doing a full days work, giving away the best hours of the day. Coming back, not really being able to do anything major.

Weekends spent trying to rest as you're bollixed from the week.

20 days off a year.

Stuck at a desk all day, probably leading to health problems later on.

The hope of not doing it keeps me going but deep down the likliehood is I'll have to keep working.

I recommend you keep a stiff upper lip. To do so, I recommend you cut out all alcohol and get up early in the mornings for a bit of exercise. A few deep breaths, cold water on your face and a big smile will get you through. As for working for 40 years, sure what else would you be doing. Work till you drop, that`s my motto.

Diversity for Hire · 26-06-2018 11:48PM

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Then.. ya know.. don't do it?
Start your own company. Work for yourself. Set your own hours. Commute to the shed in your garden.
Youd think people are forced to work at gun point the way they go on...

I am of the opinion that a job, any job is better than being on the dole. And as much I enjoy Bukowski I know he worked like a dog before making it as a writer.

WhiteMemento9 · 26-06-2018 11:49PM

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Then.. ya know.. don't do it?
Start your own company. Work for yourself. Set your own hours. Commute to the shed in your garden.
Youd think people are forced to work at gun point the way they go on...

Better is all people are saying. This system is ****. You can't open your mind and see the real horrors of the world which is fine. The poor can't question things because they are bitter, the rich don't question things and the guy doing OK just want to hold onto their little slice so they say nothing or the worse ones justify the whole thing. The cycle continues worse and worse and worse till we end up in the toilet. tbh, the vacuous society we have created is already in it.

“I guess the only time most people think about injustice is when it happens to them.” (Charles Bukowski)

WhiteMemento9 · 26-06-2018 11:56PM

Diversity for Hire wrote: »

I am of the opinion that a job, any job is better than being on the dole. And as much I enjoy Bukowski I know he worked like a dog before making it as a writer.

Work the job thing and do what you are passionate about on the side. I love his stuff. He could see the ridiculousness of the system we created because he found proper happiness in something. Many great writers, comedians, artists, musicians all try to wake us up to the world. They all speak the same thoughts I am trying to get across only in different mediums.

Diversity for Hire · 27-06-2018 12:13AM

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

Work the job thing and do what you are passionate about on the side. I love his stuff. He could see the ridiculousness of the system we created because he found proper happiness in something. Many great writers, comedians, artists, musicians all try to wake us up to the world. They all speak the same thoughts I am trying to get across only in different mediums.

I love his stuff too but it's not as if he offered any alternatives. Not everyone can quit their job and become a writer.

I believe a man needs a job to give him some purpose and routine. I've tried the bum life, the novelty wears off very quick.

Fully agree to follow your passions on the side. And also you should work to live not live to work.

WhiteMemento9 · 27-06-2018 12:21AM

Diversity for Hire wrote: »

I love his stuff too but it's not as if he offered any alternatives. Not everyone can quit their job and become a writer.

I believe a man needs a job to give him some purpose and routine. I've tried the bum life, the novelty wears off very quick.

Fully agree to follow your passions on the side. And also you should work to live not live to work.

He didn't though. His passion became his income.

Purpose is just a construct, it implies life is hard and you need find ways to keep going. Life can be the most amazing thing if you find things you are passionate about and apply your energy to them. Whether you are good or bad at them is irrelevant. People are conditioned to think they need to be doing things for a purpose. The joy of doing things because you enjoy doing them just for doing them is incredible. No thoughts that you want to make it a career, or take exams or any of that rubbish. You just enjoy doing it. No purpose.

Twenty Grand · 27-06-2018 12:29AM

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

Better is all people are saying. This system is ****. You can't open your mind and see the real horrors of the world which is fine. The poor can't question things because they are bitter, the rich don't question things and the guy doing OK just want to hold onto their little slice so they say nothing or the worse ones justify the whole thing. The cycle continues worse and worse and worse till we end up in the toilet. tbh, the vacuous society we have created is already in it.

Worse and worse? How is anyone worse off now than 20 or 30 years ago? Its easy to blame nameless faceless governments (which TD exactly?) corporations(which one exactly?) and the elite and the 1%(who exactly?) or whoever else but the reality is that life is great for the vast majority. If things truly we're bad we'd have strikes and riots. People have never had the opportunities to work and travel that they've had before.
Posters like yourself are full of the "woe is me, I have to work for food and shelter. I can't just spend every waking moment enjoying my life". That's just a reality of existence and has been forever.
If you hate your job then change it. If you hate your area then move. You've never had such an opportunity to change any aspect of your life.
It might take time. It might take decades, but you can do anything you want.
To pass the blame onto some vague entity is lazy. Sure most of the richest people in the world are entirely self made, inherited wealth is almost a relic at this point. You have youtubers making millions for filming their lives, teenagers making millions from crypto. Jack Ma bought a computer at 33 and now he's worth 42 billion dollars. One of my friends earned 1.2 million dollars last year in sales. Sure most of the shift workers in pharma companies in Cork and Dublin are clearing 80k with overtime.

If you're in a sh*t job you've very few excuses to still be there 5 years later. Most people are too short sighted to see how a small incremental changes in their lives can make huge differences over time. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results, yet it seems many people have doomed themselves to unfulfilling lives because they're unable or unaware of how to improve their lot.

Diversity for Hire · 27-06-2018 12:33AM

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

He didn't though. His passion became his income.

Purpose is just a construct, it implies life is hard and you need find ways to keep going. Life can be the most amazing thing if you find things you are passionate about and apply your energy to them. Whether you are good or bad at them is irrelevant. People are conditioned to think they need to be doing things for a purpose. The joy of doing things because you enjoy doing them just for doing them is incredible. No thoughts that you want to make it a career, or take exams or any of that rubbish. You just enjoy doing it. No purpose.

He quit his job when he got his big break, at age 50. Most people will never be that lucky.

There are those who think they don't need to work, that they can spend all day practicing guitar or writing poetry and that will be enough. Then there are the workaholics who live to work. Both will end up insane, broken men.

A happy medium is needed. A job that you don't hate, that pays enough to give you a decent standard of living and enough free time to enjoy your life.

WhiteMemento9 · 27-06-2018 12:41AM

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Worse and worse? How is anyone worse off now than 20 or 30 years ago? Its easy to blame nameless faceless governments (which TD exactly?) corporations(which one exactly?) and the elite and the 1%(who exactly?) or whoever else but the reality is that life is great for the vast majority. If things truly we're bad we'd have strikes and riots. People have never had the opportunities to work and travel that they've had before.
Posters like yourself are full of the "woe is me, I have to work for food and shelter. I can't just spend every waking moment enjoying my life". That's just a reality of existence and has been forever.
If you hate your job then change it. If you hate your area then move. You've never had such an opportunity to change any aspect of your life.
It might take time. It might take decades, but you can do anything you want.
To pass the blame onto some vague entity is lazy. Sure most of the richest people in the world are entirely self made, inherited wealth is almost a relic at this point. You have youtubers making millions for filming their lives, teenagers making millions from crypto. Jack Ma bought a computer at 33 and now he's worth 42 billion dollars. One of my friends earned 1.2 million dollars last year in sales. Sure most of the shift workers in pharma companies in Cork and Dublin are clearing 80k with overtime.

If you're in a sh*t job you've very few excuses to still be there 5 years later. Most people are too short sighted to see how a small incremental changes in their lives can make huge differences over time. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results, yet it seems many people have doomed themselves to unfulfilling lives because they're unable or unaware of how to improve their lot.

If you had read my posts. My pain comes from the fact I feel incredibly connected to the world. I feel the pain of every person around me that is struggling to get by. I feel the pain of the people I see around me sleepwalking through their lives without ever living. There is no woe is me. That connection comes from understanding, compassion and love for people.

I can make this work for myself. The pain comes from knowing that we could be so much better, so much better. I know the value of letting that pain in and feeling connected and wouldn't swap it for the world as it empties you of bitterness that most people can't let go of which means they never properly feel. Don't worry about it though, you are alright and other people just need to help themselves. I am fighting a sea of hate caused by fear.

Twenty Grand · 27-06-2018 12:46AM

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

If you had read my posts. My pain comes from the fact I feel incredibly connected to the world. I feel the pain of every person around me that is struggling to get by. I feel the pain of the people I see around me sleepwalking through their lives without ever living. There is no woe is me. That connection comes from understanding, compassion and love for people.

I can make this work for myself. The pain comes from knowing that we could be so much better, so much better. I know the value of letting that pain in and feeling connected and wouldn't swap it for the world as it empties you of bitterness that most people can't let go of which means they never properly feel. Don't worry about it though, you are alright and other people just need to help themselves. I am fighting a sea of hate caused by fear.

Well your not going to help anyone with that attitude.

WhiteMemento9 · 27-06-2018 12:47AM

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Well your not going to help anyone with that attitude.

Some people are maybe beyond help.

Twenty Grand · 27-06-2018 01:00AM

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

Some people are maybe beyond help.

At least we agree the problems lie mainly with people.

WhiteMemento9 · 27-06-2018 01:07AM

Twenty Grand wrote: »

At least we agree the problems lie mainly with people.

Particular kinds of people. People who talk about money loads because that is the god that they think brings happiness. Pleasure and inner happiness are very different things. Most of your last post was about how to make money to change your life. It is funny I get anxious around people like that in life and I am now so it is time for some sleep.

Does anyone else get sick at the thought of working for the next 40 years?

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