Ire vs Aus - Test Number Three

Podge_irl · 21-06-2018 01:06PM

phog wrote: »

We're talking about scrumhalf? I missed both games so far but based on match reports I'm fairly sure Murray has played almost the entire 160 mins. Is this incorrect?

Based on what you're saying so you seem happy that we go into the WC with Cooney as our reserve SH and he possibly only having two starts and those yet to come in the Autumn games.

That is correct. But you can't look at one position completely in isolation. Changing the whole team would be counterproductive. Schmidt is rotating quite a bit in positions where he views it as useful.

I'm not happy with it at all. But I won't be happy to see Cooney or Marmion or McGrath get a minute of meaningful gametime in the world cup no matter how many starts they have between now and then.

21-06-2018 01:27PM

This match is quite close to what Ireland are likely to experience in the 1/4 final of the next world cup should we top our pool. A winner takes all match thousands of miles from home with a somewhat depleted squad against a top 6 outfit. Given our inability to go beyond the 1/4 final stage it's a good work out for the squad and an important milestone for us. Sexton talks about Ireland being an outcome based team, we win this and we'll carry a lot of belief into November and beyond, it's our last time in the Southern Hemisphere until the World Cup.

Now on the turn side of that, we lost the last 1/4 final in my opinion almost exclusively due to a lack of depth. We've remedied much of that through squad development but we're still in a tentative place when it comes to the half backs. I guess a win this weekend is viewed as more important to developing our depth further at 9 and 10 but I firmly believe that it was probably a tight enough decision and squad selection (fitness dependent) for the Autumn and maybe even six nations is already being considered by the coaches.

I also think losing Ringrose was a catalytic factor in the lack of rotation at 9 and 10. I know everyone isn't as exuberant in praise as I am but he is one of our key men now as far as I'm concerned and if his next 10 games are as impressive as his last 10 then I think his world class status will be largely unanimous. He doesn't need to get better (though I'm sure he will) - he is doing some incredible stuff on and off the ball and I'd bet the house he'd start a Lions test at 13 as of right now (Jonathan Davies would have a big say in that but I don't think there is anything between them and Ringrose has more scope to improve).

Either way, I can appreciate why a win is being prioritised over further development most specifically at 9. I'm absolutely fine with it and I think by and large the tour has been a success from a squad development point of view. Not perfect, but pretty good and we've a lot to be happy about.

Drifter50 · 21-06-2018 01:28PM

Gary Ringrose a huge loss

I`m wary of the 3 subs for the backs. Should Cooney or Carberry not give more options. If Bundee or Robbie are injured, realistically we are replacing him with Marmion for this game

Dan Leavy a huge loss, surely Jordi would be a better fit if he`s not available

I`m more in hope than expectation now

Christy42 · 21-06-2018 01:39PM

Ringrose is a big loss. Playing Marmion would not make him a suitable replacement. We would just be more likely to lose this game.

Development is not all about game time. You can't just keep putting a decent player out there to make him great.

May Contain Small Parts · 21-06-2018 01:39PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Now on the turn side of that, we lost the last 1/4 final in my opinion almost exclusively due to a lack of depth.

I disagree. It didn't help, but what lost it was the turgid rugby we played. We never had a hope of scoring enough to win, even if we'd had all our starters.

May Contain Small Parts · 21-06-2018 01:44PM

Drifter50 wrote: »

Gary Ringrose a huge loss
I`m wary of the 3 subs for the backs. Should Cooney or Carberry not give more options. If Bundee or Robbie are injured, realistically we are replacing him with Marmion for this game

If not the stated plan on Byrne at 12 then I'd expect to see Larmour at 13.
He's spent a bit of time covering there with Leinster and did well, but you'd want him to learn a bit more about how to defend there to make him your go-to back-up.

Funnily enough, with his step and acceleration it could be a great idea to convert him to centre.

Burkie1203 · 21-06-2018 01:45PM

May Contain Small Parts wrote: »

I disagree. It didn't help, but what lost it was the turgid rugby we played. We never had a hope of scoring enough to win, even if we'd had all our starters.

We missed a penalty to level the scores. Anyone's game after that.

Sexton SOB and Payne were massive losses defensively and If they were on the pitch I don't think Argentina would have had a 17 point headstart. Our issues early on that day stemmed from the ultra quick ball and ability to get beyond the 13 channel in the blink of an eye.

Podge_irl · 21-06-2018 01:48PM

May Contain Small Parts wrote: »

I disagree. It didn't help, but what lost it was the turgid rugby we played. We never had a hope of scoring enough to win, even if we'd had all our starters.

The way we played in defence was pretty much contingent on having our starters - or more precisely the exact starters we lost. Sexton/Payne in midfield and SOB at 7 would have meant out narrowness in defence getting exposed a lot less.

I think the focus on depth is as much about having a style that allows multiple players to rotate into it as it is about the players themselves.

Yeah_Right · 21-06-2018 02:09PM

Deleted User wrote: »

This match is quite close to what Ireland are likely to experience in the 1/4 final of the next world cup should we top our pool. A winner takes all match thousands of miles from home with a somewhat depleted squad against a top 6 outfit. Given our inability to go beyond the 1/4 final stage it's a good work out for the squad and an important milestone for us. Sexton talks about Ireland being an outcome based team, we win this and we'll carry a lot of belief into November and beyond, it's our last time in the Southern Hemisphere until the World Cup.

Now on the turn side of that, we lost the last 1/4 final in my opinion almost exclusively due to a lack of depth. We've remedied much of that through squad development but we're still in a tentative place when it comes to the half backs. I guess a win this weekend is viewed as more important to developing our depth further at 9 and 10 but I firmly believe that it was probably a tight enough decision and squad selection (fitness dependent) for the Autumn and maybe even six nations is already being considered by the coaches.

I also think losing Ringrose was a catalytic factor in the lack of rotation at 9 and 10. I know everyone isn't as exuberant in praise as I am but he is one of our key men now as far as I'm concerned and if his next 10 games are as impressive as his last 10 then I think his world class status will be largely unanimous. He doesn't need to get better (though I'm sure he will) - he is doing some incredible stuff on and off the ball and I'd bet the house he'd start a Lions test at 13 as of right now (Jonathan Davies would have a big say in that but I don't think there is anything between them and Ringrose has more scope to improve).

Either way, I can appreciate why a win is being prioritised over further development most specifically at 9. I'm absolutely fine with it and I think by and large the tour has been a success from a squad development point of view. Not perfect, but pretty good and we've a lot to be happy about.

I think you are spot on with what you've written except for one thing. Japan is in the northern hemisphere

I think one of these reasons that Schmidt isn't concerned about giving the back up scrum halves much game time is Sexton. If any of them do have to replace Murray in a big match their instructions are simple - Do what Johnny tells you to do.

arsebiscuits1 · 21-06-2018 02:42PM

Drifter50 wrote: »

Gary Ringrose a huge loss

I`m wary of the 3 subs for the backs. Should Cooney or Carberry not give more options. If Bundee or Robbie are injured, realistically we are replacing him with Marmion for this game

Dan Leavy a huge loss, surely Jordi would be a better fit if he`s not available

I`m more in hope than expectation now

Joe said in the presser that they've looked at RB at 12 and Larmour covers everything else.

Larmour played 13 against England fairly well.

We'd be putting Stockdale or Earls in the centre long before we put Marmion in there. Hell if we were even more stuck than that Murray at 10, Sexton at 12 and Marmion to 9 is still more likely than him coming on in the centre

21-06-2018 02:44PM

May Contain Small Parts wrote: »

I disagree. It didn't help, but what lost it was the turgid rugby we played. We never had a hope of scoring enough to win, even if we'd had all our starters.

That's fair enough - we certainly weren't as clinical as we are now. However I think we were fundamentally a stronger team than Argentina and under no circumstances should we have given them the headstart we did.

Sexton or Payne would have made a significant impact to the width of our defence and I think SOB, POM or POC would have added massively to our pack and would have made better decisions off the ball than their replacements.

If I had to bet my house on the result of that game had we held onto a few of those players, I'd have bet it all on Ireland.

irishbucsfan · 21-06-2018 02:48PM

Deleted User wrote: »

That's fair enough - we certainly weren't as clinical as we are now. However I think we were fundamentally a stronger team than Argentina and under no circumstances should we have given them the headstart we did.

Sexton or Payne would have made a significant impact to the width of our defence and I think SOB, POM or POC would have added massively to our pack and would have made better decisions off the ball than their replacements.

If I had to bet my house on the result of that game had we held onto a few of those players, I'd have bet it all on Ireland.

We conceded 40 points, the problem certainly wasn't the number of points we scored.

Larbre34 · 21-06-2018 02:48PM

I think its obvious now that Schmidt is focussing solely on exposing players to test conditions ahead of the World Cup.

I'm not saying his top class gameplans won't win this match, but id favour Australia slightly with that Irish selection.

21-06-2018 02:55PM

Larbre34 wrote: »

id favour Australia slightly with that Irish selection.

I don't share your pessimism.

Only one team evolved their gameplay between the first two tests and it wasn't Australia. I think they exposed us in the first test and we've learned from it, I think we exposed them in the first test to a lesser degree and they didn't adapt nearly as well.

Both teams will be better this weekend, but I think Ireland's curve is greater and I think our key players looked fresh and energised at full time last week.

I expect a reaction from Australia, it's foolish to think otherwise but we've physically nothing to fear from them in the contact zone and bar a perfectly timed and perfectly picked line from Beale I didn't see anything from Australia last week that has me thinking we can't go one better and beat them with a wider margin.

We're a well drilled consistent team and we suffered from an unusually inconsistent refereeing performance last week. Whilst we need to be a little more clinical (and I expect we will be) I think we've shown our dominant possession and territory game is sufficient to break down the Wallabies and if we add a bit more awareness and finishing then we can blow these guys away.

I really believe we're going to put on a show on Saturday.

Professor Moriarty · 21-06-2018 02:56PM

Big big game for Conan. I fancy him to play very well and cement a place on future benches. Only fly in the ointment might be Beirne.

errlloyd · 21-06-2018 02:57PM

Pressure is on Aus now for me.

Larbre34 · 21-06-2018 03:49PM

Pessimism is a bit strong Venjur, we're talking about tie-breaking margins here and if only for the forced rejig in our midfield where we lose the highly influential Ringrose and have to put Henshaw where he is less effective, I can see Beale and Folau getting back into the game somewhat and that could be a the difference. The forecast is dry also for a fast pitch in a ground the Wallabies love.

Im not saying we wont win, we can and it wouldnt surprise me if we did, but its a task.

delta_bravo · 21-06-2018 04:07PM

Anyone know where I can find broadcasting info? Trying to see who is showing it in America

21-06-2018 04:16PM

Anything to be said about Caleb Timu being dropped entirely, Lukhan Tui starting and Ned Hanigan benching? I barely recognise the names

Noopti · 21-06-2018 04:37PM

Would be much more confident of a win if Ringrose was starting. I was expecting Aki to return for this test, but at the expense of Henshaw.
However Aus losing Genia is a big loss for them.

The fact is that it all comes down to the same focuses required for the 2nd test
- Dominate the breakdown (or at least get parity)
- Negate Folau & Beale

Plus one new one
- Be more clinical with our chances

The re-jigged backrow will again have to be on their A game. Likely POM and Stander will be tasked with disruption, with Conan tasked with being a link man. Will need the likes of Furlong, Ryan etc to hit rucks just as aggressively as the 2nd test.

Ireland will continue the "blocking" lines on Folau. Williams was on OTB saying they were against the rules....but I didn't see it that way at all. Just need the guys being aware of where Folau is running to and being in his way. Doesn't mean actively moving into him to obstruct as he gets near them.

Biggest question will be defence at 13. I expect many lessons to have been learned from Henshaw after the 1st test, and this is a team which rarely makes the same mistakes twice in such close proximity. So expect that to be more solid.

Overall, I do think we know exactly how to beat Australia so it will all come down to the team once again knowing all their roles and executing at a high level for the entire match. No easy feat, but they all should have one more game in them. Australia will need to change their tactics a bit I feel, and are likely to do so. But not sure they can, to the degree needed - and without Genia they are losing a lot in terms of skill and decision making.

If Ireland can match the accuracy in defence, the air and the breakdown of the 2nd test, along with increased accuracy with their chances then I can see them winning by 10-15 points (maybe even more). If not, another very close game awaits where either team could nick it.

leakyboots · 21-06-2018 04:56PM

Very little mention of Cronin... will be interesting to see how the scrums and lineouts go with him in it from the off. Schmidders made a point of saying:

“We’d love to see him do really well in the set-pieces,” said Schmidt when asked what he expects to see from Cronin.

Big chance for Conan to lay down a marker, think Joe made the right call leaving Jordi out, don't think he's near the level of POM or Stander

21-06-2018 05:01PM

Fair play to Ireland in coming up with this amazing new strategy that nobody ever used before: blocking chasing lines

shootermacg · 21-06-2018 07:22PM

So they finally did it

. They went and broke the glass. Stander @6 is one of the wonders of the modern world.
With Conan carrying, you're about to see a total rugby at 6 that hasn't been seen in years.

The Man of the Match award is about to be christened the CJ Stander award yet again!

Aussies will stand in awe, with tears in their eyes, the game totally forgotten, whispering silently to themselves "It's....it's perfection...".

joseywhales · 22-06-2018 12:48AM

We have a gigantic team playing I must say, we will miss leavy and ringrose. We will win only if Sexton lasts the match I think.

Drifter50 · 22-06-2018 08:18AM

joseywhales wrote: »

We have a gigantic team playing I must say, we will miss leavy and ringrose. We will win only if Sexton lasts the match I think.

Unlikely tho that JS would pick Ross Byrne in the 23 if he is not going to play at some stage.

Whatever fiddling about he does with 60 mins to go, the back line is undercooked for the final 20. If Robbie or Bundy are injured in the 1st half that will make it interesting especially when you saw RH in training strapped from his knee to his thigh this week

stephen_n · 22-06-2018 10:14AM

I wonder will we see POM out attacking the between their centres, where VDF was against France. If he can offload in those areas we might find holes in their defence.

Former Former · 22-06-2018 10:26AM

RTE reporting that Cronin sat out the captain's run. That would be such a kick in the teeth for him, if he can't make the game.

Tim Robbins · 22-06-2018 10:44AM

Neil3030 wrote: »

Good idea giving POM a run at 7. After our first choice 7, and the other 7, there's only three 7s left!

Best 7 - O'Brien, Followed by Leavy, Followed by VDF.

In International Rugby you never have your first 15, ever. Every 15 selected from now to world cup should include one little surprise even if everyone is fit. That's because otherwise we will just be an international side that are only good when we have our first 15,

In the modern game, I don't think there is much as a difference between the 6 and 7. In the old days you'd have Josh Kronfield coming outside the winger for the last pass - open side had to be fast.

Now, I think the skills for 6 and 7 are closer.

redmca2 · 22-06-2018 11:06AM

Looking at the primary focus of Schmidt is to add depth to the squad in as many positions as possible, the full back situation looks the least addressed. The previous back-ups to RK were Zebo and to a lesser extent Payne, both of whom are no longer in the reckoning.

I think it would be beneficial for Ireland if Larmour spends a lot of next season at full back for Leinster.

arsebiscuits1 · 22-06-2018 11:15AM

redmca2 wrote: »

Looking at the primary focus of Schmidt is to add depth to the squad in as many positions as possible, the full back situation looks the least addressed. The previous back-ups to RK were Zebo and to a lesser extent Payne, both of whom are no longer in the reckoning.

I think it would be beneficial for Ireland if Larmour spends a lot of next season at full back for Leinster.

I'd say that's the plan. I'd love to see more of him at 15.

He has the nuts and bolts to his game. Would like to see him challenged aerially.

And oh boy let him counter attack

:D

Ire vs Aus - Test Number Three

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