NBRU call for Transport Police

Jamie2k9 · 17-06-2018 2:32pm #1

https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0617/971144-rail-attacks/

Iarnród Éireann is no longer safe for passengers or staff as a result of growing violence and anti-social behaviour, according to the head of the National Bus and Rail Union.

NBRU general secretary Dermot O'Leary was responding to revelations on RTÉ's This Week, that anti-social behaviour had jumped by 43% in a two-year period.

The union has called on Minister for Transport Shane Ross to establish a dedicated Transport Police, similar to the UK.

Figures show that there were more than 1,000 separate incidents of anti-social behaviour recorded by Iarnród Éireann since the start of 2017.

In 2016, there were 492 recorded incidents of anti-social misconduct on rail lines; but by 2017 this had surged to more than 700 incidents.

The figures show that the number of incidents has risen even further in the first five months of this year - with a rise of 25% when compared to the same period in 2016.

Not many things I agree with the NBRU on!

fullstop · 17-06-2018 2:36pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Not many things I agree with the NBRU on!

I was thinking the same when I read the headline!

magicbastarder · 17-06-2018 2:49pm

would be interesting as to what people's thoughts would be on whether this should fall under a general traffic corps in the gardai, or be a separate team/force? as they'd need powers of arrest to be properly effective.

end of the road · 17-06-2018 2:59pm

i'm thinking that they should be another unit of the gardai. however they could only be moved to other duties from transport in extreme circumstances.

ED E · 17-06-2018 4:38pm

end of the road wrote: »

i'm thinking that they should be another unit of the gardai. however they could only be moved to other duties from transport in extreme circumstances.

No. No no no.

The current t situation is the RPU are controlled by Dublin Castle (Traffic Super) but in the area of the local super. Every time a super needs bodies traffic is stripped. Which is always.

Make a municipal police for Dublin and Cork and deploy em 50/50 streets & transport.

devnull · 17-06-2018 4:50pm

As stated in the other thread, A transport police is welcome and needed, but ultimately the staff need to get their own house in order too and this shouldn't b allowed to overshadow the problems that are under their control.

A cynic would suggest that they've picked today of all days to release it as it's somewhat of a distraction and a smokescreen to take the focus off their members and the Irish Rail failings of a few days ago. and instead place the focus on the passengers once more.

end of the road · 17-06-2018 4:54pm

ED E wrote: »

No. No no no.

The current t situation is the RPU are controlled by Dublin Castle (Traffic Super) but in the area of the local super. Every time a super needs bodies traffic is stripped. Which is always.

this would be prohibited from happening with my idea.

ED E wrote: »

Make a municipal police for Dublin and Cork and deploy em 50/50 streets & transport.

i reccan that would be a waste of money. a country our size doesn't need municipal police forces. we just need manpower in the first place.

Jamie2k9 · 17-06-2018 5:55pm

devnull wrote: »

As stated in the other thread, A transport police is welcome and needed, but ultimately the staff need to get their own house in order too and this shouldn't b allowed to overshadow the problems that are under their control.

A cynic would suggest that they've picked today of all days to release it as it's somewhat of a distraction and a smokescreen to take the focus off their members and the Irish Rail failings of a few days ago. and instead place the focus on the passengers once more.

RTE This Week only airs Sundays so while its good timing I don't see the connection. I also think it may be pre-recorded show.

john boye · 18-06-2018 12:10am

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

RTE This Week only airs Sundays so while its good timing I don't see the connection. I also think it may be pre-recorded show.

The show itself is live but some segments can be recorded earlier on Sunday Morning.

Stephen15 · 18-06-2018 12:30am

I don't think there neessecarily needs to be a dedicated transport police but definitely a dedicated Garda unit. Every large station such as Connolly, Pearse, Hueston, Cork and Limerick should have a small Garda station. Large stations should have private security teams patrolling the station also who can handover an unruly passenger to the Gardai for arrest. They should also travel on trains.

A dedicated transport police is unesscary. The reason Britain has the BTP is because they do not have a nationwide police force only regional ones who would be leaving their jurisdiction as the railway covers many different regions.

SPDUB · 18-06-2018 6:47am

end of the road wrote: »

i reccan that would be a waste of money. a country our size doesn't need municipal police forces. we just need manpower in the first place.

We already had a municipal police force in Dublin , the Dublin Metropolitan Police , until 1925 when Kevin O Higgins decided there should be only one police force in Ireland

Del.Monte · 18-06-2018 8:37am

I think that the present situation where security is farmed out to private operators employing Eastern European (?) heavies - praised by some on here - is extremely unhealthy for all sorts of reasons. A dedicated force staffed by Irish citizens - preferably a new division within the Gardai - is what's needed and should have been done years ago.

monument · 18-06-2018 9:01am

Del.Monte wrote: »

I think that the present situation where security is farmed out to private operators employing Eastern European (?) heavies - praised by some on here - is extremely unhealthy for all sorts of reasons. A dedicated force staffed by Irish citizens - preferably a new division within the Gardai - is what's needed and should have been done years ago.

If you’re point isn’t about them being Eastern European, can we please leave the Eastern European bit out of it? Thanks.

— moderator

Del2005 · 18-06-2018 9:12am

No point in a dedicated transport police if the results are the same as when arrested by the regular police.

The problem in this country isn't the front line its the systems behind the front line staff that are rotten to the core.

bk · 18-06-2018 11:45am

Del.Monte wrote: »

I think that the present situation where security is farmed out to private operators employing Eastern European (?) heavies - praised by some on here - is extremely unhealthy for all sorts of reasons. A dedicated force staffed by Irish citizens - preferably a new division within the Gardai - is what's needed and should have been done years ago.

I've a few Eastern European born friends who are now Irish Citizens. Those guys could be too. You don't know.

Ironically you don't need to be an Irish Citizen to join the Gardai. Just a national of any European Economic Area country or Swiss.

I can't believe I'm agreeing with Dermot here!

I'd say they should be a completely separate force similar to the British Transport police and also other similar "city police" you find all around the world.

They should be covering, trains and rail network, luas, bus, airport, but also city center traffic, bus lane enfrocement, taxis, etc.

They should also do ticket inspection and parking tickets.

Basically get rid of ticket inspectors, parking wardens and those security guys and use the money instead to pay the Transport Police to do it.

Gardai can still intervene when they see an issue, but we need a dedicated force so that they don't get constantly pulled into other policing duties.

whisky_galore · 18-06-2018 12:47pm

I think it matters little who does the policing as long as it's effective.

tbh I think the problem is a wider social one.

Scumbags, esp. the hardened ones/repeat offenders aren't afraid of the Gardai anymore. As for the underaged scrotes, they know well the worst that's ever going to happen when caught is a slap on the wrist. Free legal aid and the usual handwringing about 'disadvantaged background' and maybe a sick mother thrown into the mix. IE are a soft target, the staff can do little apart from call Gardaí who may take their sweet time arriving by which time the offenders have most likely already gone.

18-06-2018 12:56pm

bk wrote: »

Basically get rid of ticket inspectors, parking wardens and those security guys and use the money instead to pay the Transport Police to do it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the roles you mentioned would be paid by IE, CIE, various private companies.

What you seem to be suggesting is that we create a new force, with sweeping powers, paid for by various companies.

Is that not, in essence, giving these companies a legitimate police force of their own, paid for by them.

This would need to be set up very carefully to avoid a situation like that.

bk · 18-06-2018 1:37pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the roles you mentioned would be paid by IE, CIE, various private companies.

What you seem to be suggesting is that we create a new force, with sweeping powers, paid for by various companies.

Is that not, in essence, giving these companies a legitimate police force of their own, paid for by them.

This would need to be set up very carefully to avoid a situation like that.

Yes, that is exactly how the British Transport Police work. They are paid for mostly by National Rail, London Underground, etc. They report to the Department of Transport and are directed by them where and how to operate.

BTW They went through various mergers etc. where they use to be a division of the regular police, but it was found that they were being pulled off their remit into general policing, so they were taken back out to refocus them on their goal.

Of course, unlike us, the UK has many different police forces, including very specialist forces that focus on financial crime (City of London Police, not to be confused with the Met), Civil Nuclear Constabulary who police near Nuclear power plants, etc. So they are more use to the idea of having specialist services.

Bray Head · 18-06-2018 3:30pm

It is an excellent idea. They could also be put in charge of parking enforcement, traffic violations, bus lane infractions, etc, within the confines of specific urban areas. They would have their own distinct mandate, budget and reporting line.

This stuff just isn't and will never be priority for AGS.

It would probably be cheaper too in the long run. Fine income would increase and they wouldn't need to be on the same wages that guards are on.

devnull · 18-06-2018 6:22pm

If you have a problem with the post please report it and if it breaches the rules it will be dealt with - do not tackle the poster on thread.

Moderator

18-06-2018 8:16pm

The airport police service is the closest thing we have like this

It wouldn't be a stretch to create another force with policing authority

Stephen15 · 18-06-2018 8:21pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The airport police service is the closest thing we have like this

It wouldn't be a stretch to create another force with policing authority

There's also The Harbour Police in DL who are more glorified clampers

GM228 · 18-06-2018 8:47pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

There's also The Harbour Police in DL who are more glorified clampers

Both Dublin Port and Dun Laoghaire have them and they are proper police force's with more or less the same powers as Gardaí.

Stephen15 · 18-06-2018 8:56pm

GM228 wrote: »

Both Dublin Port and Dun Laoghaire have them and they are proper police force's with more or less the same powers as Gardaí.

Don't see why DL habour has it's own police force. Completely unesscary. They might have been useful back in the day with the ferry but today they are waste of money. All I have ever seen them do is enforce bylaws regarding fishing and parking.

bk · 19-06-2018 10:57am

GM228 wrote: »

Both Dublin Port and Dun Laoghaire have them and they are proper police force's with more or less the same powers as Gardaí.

Their powers are a little lower then the Gardai. They do have the power to arrest and detain people. But in a case of a criminal offence they would hand the person over to the Gardai, as the Gardai only have the power to investigate criminal cases.

In the UK the British Transport Police have all the same powers as any other police force, including criminal investigations.

Actually I see there was a serious accident on the British Rail yesterday, three dead on rail tracks, looks like they might have been painting graffiti and got hit by a train. The BTP are investigating it.

Here you could potentially follow either model. Though I'd prefer the BTP model, it would give them more teeth. Pros and cons to both approaches.

Stephen15 · 19-06-2018 11:49am

Tbh honest I don't see the need for a transport police our railway network is simply too small. Remember Britain has 15,799km of track and 2,564 stations, Ireland only has 2,733km of track and 147 stations. Britain's railway also suffers from a much higher threat than here in Ireland especially from terrorism.

There is definitely a need for extra Gardai on trains as I said earlier you could a small Garda station in the big stations in Dublin and Cork aswell as patrolling on board trains particularly the DART, Luas, buses and commuter trains in Dublin. They could also be on high risk intercity services which from a high amount of drinking on board.

bk · 19-06-2018 7:21pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

Tbh honest I don't see the need for a transport police our railway network is simply too small. Remember Britain has 15,799km of track and 2,564 stations, Ireland only has 2,733km of track and 147 stations. Britain's railway also suffers from a much higher threat than here in Ireland especially from terrorism.

While agree it should be less focused on just rail, we could and should have a force with a wider remit. Rail, Luas, Metro, but also bus lane and city center enforcement.

Because it is quite clear that the Gardai do very little to enforce any of these here.

Working class heroes · 22-06-2018 8:26am

Big push for the boys in blue on the choo choo.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/dart-drivers-fear-for-lives-as-bandits-attack-trains-37037113.html

Del.Monte · 22-06-2018 9:18am

Working class heroes wrote: »

Big push for the boys in blue on the choo choo.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/dart-drivers-fear-for-lives-as-bandits-attack-trains-37037113.html

Nothing to see here. :rolleyes:

Working class heroes · 22-06-2018 9:19am

Del.Monte wrote: »

Nothing to see here. :rolleyes:

Sorry, don’t get you.

Creative83 · 22-06-2018 9:22am

Working class heroes wrote: »

Big push for the boys in blue on the choo choo.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/dart-drivers-fear-for-lives-as-bandits-attack-trains-37037113.html

Somebody is going to get seriously hurt or killed on the route one of these days... I'm a regular on the dart after 7 and every couple of days there is trouble from scrotes.

Transport police is a necessity now. It's only getting worse

Working class heroes · 22-06-2018 9:26am

NBRU on Newstalk now.

magicbastarder · 22-06-2018 11:02am

listening to the news, it's been announced that security on northside DARTs will be beefed up from this evening - three mobile teams, and one based in an unnamed station.

nowaynever · 22-06-2018 11:09am

magicbastarder wrote: »

listening to the news, it's been announced that security on northside DARTs will be beefed up from this evening - three mobile teams, and one based in an unnamed station.

I'm open to correction but as far as I know this would be the normal level of security.

goingnowhere · 22-06-2018 11:19am

Well its basically no security as the security staff always seem more interested in their phones...

nowaynever · 22-06-2018 11:37am

goingnowhere wrote: »

Well its basically no security as the security staff always seem more interested in their phones...

I'm going to need prove of that before I get outraged.

bk · 22-06-2018 11:55am

nowaynever wrote: »

I'm open to correction but as far as I know this would be the normal level of security.

They say it is a 50% increase in security.

ixoy · 22-06-2018 12:02pm

Wait, they're threatening to pull Northside services at weekends ?! Surely that's against their remit.

end of the road · 22-06-2018 12:11pm

ixoy wrote: »

Wait, they're threatening to pull Northside services at weekends ?! Surely that's against their remit.

i'd be surprised if it is, after all dublin bus for example will pull services when there is severe issues such as severe anti-social behaviour.
i don't like services being pulled as it effects ordinary people who have done nothing wrong, but realistically until the authorities begin to deal with the issues then what choice is their?

Stephen15 · 22-06-2018 12:38pm

I would say that threatening to stop all DART services North of Connolly after 7 is scaremongering if that's the case then what about the Enterprise and Northern Commuters running on that line also.

What would be more likely is that they have a service not stop at a station where there has been an incident. It would probably work in way similar to DB where after the first incident trains would pulled for an hour and after the second incident trains would be pulled for the rest of the night and the station would be closed for the rest the night.

A one hour station closure after an incident may also leave enough time to get security resources in place after an issue at a certain station preventing any further incidents if you put security staff in a car responding to where an incident happened to prevent any more incidents.

Jamie2k9 · 22-06-2018 12:39pm

Its a shame there is an alternative agenda at play but I guess if it gets transport police for Dublin I'm all for it.

Hilly Bill · 22-06-2018 2:29pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Its a shame there is an alternative agenda at play but I guess if it gets transport police for Dublin I'm all for it.

Which is? Truth now please.

Infini · 22-06-2018 2:48pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Its a shame there is an alternative agenda at play but I guess if it gets transport police for Dublin I'm all for it.

What "alternative agenda" exactly? Seriously the anti-social/scrote patrols have been getting worse over the years bacause these shítes were never tackled early on. Not only that but theyre getting more agressive and more VIOLENT. There's no agenda when it comes to this as the general powers that be usually wont get off their collective holes unless they're strongarmed into doing something about it.

goingnowhere wrote: »

Well its basically no security as the security staff always seem more interested in their phones...

To be honest the problem isn't the security itself but their management. They're generally only allowed to "Observe and Report", instead of the time honored and more effective approach of "Leave or be Kurbstomped". Need the good ol days back where these scrote's generally stayed clear for fear of the reprecussions.

Realistically though we need proper policing including a dedicated transport unit that can and will arrest these vermin when they kick off.

Jamie2k9 · 22-06-2018 11:01pm

What "alternative agenda" exactly? Seriously the anti-social/scrote patrols have been getting worse over the years bacause these shítes were never tackled early on. Not only that but theyre getting more agressive and more VIOLENT. There's no agenda when it comes to this as the general powers that be usually wont get off their collective holes unless they're strongarmed into doing something about it.

Some of the claims such as the gun threat, Guards not informed of such a serious incident? Have for example stone throwing increased year on year?

Its all just a little to convenient with what happened last week in Malahide and the sudden media reporting of such incidents and threats to withdraw service coming from unions. The RTE report is legitimate but the rest is questionable. It would have been nice to get Dermot's opinion on the communication from members when it comes to disruption.

I'm all for transport police but the reality is IE staff need to get there own house in order with anti social behavior because turning a blind eye contributes to disturbance on board.

Hilly Bill · 22-06-2018 11:24pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Some of the claims such as the gun threat, Guards not informed of such a serious incident? Have for example stone throwing increased year on year?

Its all just a little to convenient with what happened last week in Malahide and the sudden media reporting of such incidents and threats to withdraw service coming from unions. The RTE report is legitimate but the rest is questionable. It would have been nice to get Dermot's opinion on the communication from members when it comes to disruption.

I'm all for transport police but the reality is IE staff need to get there own house in order with anti social behavior because turning a blind eye contributes to disturbance on board.

What are you on about? Staff are subject to some sort of anti social behaviour and abuse every day but that's ok with you is it as we need to sort ourselves out?
I know that you are anti rail but there is no need to take the preverbials with it.

Jamie2k9 · 22-06-2018 11:31pm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

What are you on about? Staff are subject to some sort of anti social behaviour and abuse every day but that's ok with you is it as we need to sort ourselves out?
I know that you are anti rail but there is no need to take the preverbials with it.

Far from anti rail but prehaps anti CIE!

I accept staff get trouble but I have also witnessed staff just let complete drunks/junkies onto platforms and do nothing about it. They don't inform the security lads around the station. Staff need to also take a more proactive role and I don't think you can deny this.

IE from a company level are also failing, why have they not set up text service like Luas...

Hilly Bill · 23-06-2018 12:11am

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Far from anti rail but prehaps anti CIE!

I accept staff get trouble but I have also witnessed staff just let complete drunks/junkies onto platforms and do nothing about it. They don't inform the security lads around the station. Staff need to also take a more proactive role and I don't think you can deny this.

IE from a company level are also failing, why have they not set up text service like Luas...

If you kept getting threatened and abused then you wouldn't be quick to approach them either, it's not worth going home stressed over it.
In the big stations, staff constantly contact the security staff to deal with various issues, they also call the guards, ambulance etc.
This may not be popular but the ones that give out the most abuse and hassle are on free travel. It's going to get worse now ow on the dart since they announced that kids go free for a certain period and them handing out free child leap cards. What happend last year was gangs of young fellas and young ones used the cards that was handed out to act the maggot on the trains as they had unlimited travel.
You know very little of what actually goes on and what they have to put up with everyday including saving the lives of junkies who have OD'd in the toilets etc.
If you spent one day with me it would change your views regarding the staff and what they have to put up with.

Jamie2k9 · 23-06-2018 12:23am

This may not be popular but the ones that give out the most abuse and hassle are on free travel.

One thing I fully agree on.

I do agree staff face difficult tasks but transport police won't solve it fully.

Hilly Bill · 23-06-2018 12:38am

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

One thing I fully agree on.

I do agree staff face difficult tasks but transport police won't solve it fully.

Not fully no but,
It may reassure the paying customers at least if they saw guards on trains and around stations and make a few bogey heads think twice from acting the maggot at various locations.

ry7704ng · 20-07-2018 12:06am

Personally I think there should be a dedicated police force for trains, luas, dart the lot. a force of 60 lads with arrest powers batons and OC spray would help prevent crime in the first place and keep everyone on the trains safe. the luas after 7 is a warzone and those security lads have no powers, a hi visibility dedicated external police for for the trains is exactly what we need now

Atlantic Dawn · 20-07-2018 12:15am

ry7704ng wrote: »

Personally I think there should be a dedicated police force for trains, luas, dart the lot. a force of 60 lads with arrest powers batons and OC spray would help prevent crime in the first place and keep everyone on the trains safe. the luas after 7 is a warzone and those security lads have no powers, a hi visibility dedicated external police for for the trains is exactly what we need now

With body cams to back them up in court when the first few scrotes try to sue them.

NBRU call for Transport Police

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